bluezguy 4 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Greetings, I spend a lot of my 50 hour week in a Ford Econoline Van with no windows except in the front doors and windshield. I'd like to carry my AK around in it with me as my personal firearm of choice. After all, it is 'concealed' in the van. Here in Florida, you can have a long gun in your vehicle as long as the ammo is stored away from the rifle. In other words, easy/instant access to the rifle can not happen like drawing a pistol from a waistband. When I get my permit do you guys think this will be allowed with the bounds of the law or does the CCW apply only to a firearm concealed on your person? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbrubaker 13 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 In Indiana, our licenses only apply to hand guns. We can walk/drive/run/skip/frolic around all day with long guns and no license. Boo on FL for regulating that. Here is what Wikipedia says about your state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Florida): "Vehicle carry without a permit is allowed, but only when concealed from view and when the firearm is either "securely encased" or not immediately available for use. "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.[2] The weapon can be loaded and ready to fire. Vehicle carry on one's person inside a vehicle without a permit is not allowed. Once a firearm is securely encased, it can be stored anywhere inside the vehicle and is not limited to just the glove compartment/center console. In spite of a long standing urban myth, there is no such thing as the two step law or two step process." Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Best to call the FL state police and ask. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 In Michigan anything less than 26" is considered a pistol. So folding stock AK's can be in our vehicles. Now the Libtards are trying to change it back to Federal standards for hand guns. I think your best bet is probably a Draco pistol since that is a hand gun, you could carry it in your van. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Best to call a FL lawyer and ask. fixed it 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TJohn 8 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Try this for info on Florida concealed carry: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html. Each State is different. In Oklahoma if you have concealed carry permit, you can carry a long gun in the vehicle with magazine loaded but no round chambered; and of course you can carry your concealed carry pistol/revolver/derringer loaded and round chambered. In Oklahoma if you do not have a concealed carry permit any firearms in the vehicle must be unloaded, no rounds chambered and no mag with rounds inserted in the firearm. Additionally for hand guns if you have no concealed carry permit the hand gun must be in plain view in the vehicle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 in Tenn. with a hcp i can have a shotgun or rifle in the truck with loaded mags but not in the chamber, unless i feel that i am in fear of my life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Oh for the good old days of my youth in FL, every pickup had a gun rack with a rifle, shotgun, or both, didn't seem to be any legal problems unless you were poaching deer or robbed a bank or something like that. I am an instructor, NOT an attorney, but below is what I give my students, (Read the bold line, pertains directly to your question). Go to Floridafirearmslaw.com, Jon H Gutmacher, he's an attorney in O'do specializing in FL gun law, you can email him questions. Buy his book, it is a sound investment, we will probably be seeing at least a minimal change in our gun laws after the Trayvon Martin deal. Florida laws seem to be ambiguous at times, open to interpretation (that ultimately means by a judge!) Unfortunately, many LEO's may not be as knowledgeable about gun law as they might think, lots of misinformation out there. Notice these say nothing about loaded or unloaded, I wish there were a simple, up to date easy to search database on ALL FL laws that we could all understand. If you have a source for "Here in Florida, you can have a long gun in your vehicle as long as the ammo is stored away from the rifle." I would like to see it, haven't heard that one. I have carried loaded long guns, in a case or on gun rack, just don't put one in the chamber for safety. I got rear ended a few years back(I was sitting at a red light) he was going 45, had a shotgun, 2 pistols sitting on seat, loaded, and a Ruger 44 mag COCKED in his waistband, STILL had it there when the trooper showed up. Trooper visited me at hospital, said the guy would lose his concealed license, (don't know how that ended up) SECOND rear ender in less than a year with loaded guns in his vehicle. No, he was not DUI, just weird! And he didn't get arrested, got a ticket for careless driving, that's what the Trooper told me. Unless covered under the exceptions, it is unlawful to openly carry on or about the person any firearm, or to carry a concealed firearm on or about the person without a license. Exceptions: Persons having firearms at their home or place of business. Enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trapshooting, while at, or going to or from shooting practice. Members of clubs organized for collecting antique or modern firearms while at or going to or from exhibitions. Persons engaged in fishing, camping or hunting and while going to or from such activity. Persons engaged in target shooting under safe conditions and in a safe place or while going to or from such place. Persons who are firing weapons for target practice in a safe and secure indoor range. Persons traveling by private conveyance if the weapon is securely encased, or in a public conveyance if the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession. Persons carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper from place of purchase to their home or to a place of repair and back. Persons engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing or dealing in firearms. Military, law enforcement personnel and private guards while so employed. It is lawful to possess a concealed firearm for self-defense or other lawful purposes within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. A firearm other than a handgun may be carried anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. This exemption does not authorize the carrying of a firearm concealed on the person. Edited May 22, 2012 by wearefla Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Best to call a FL lawyer the Florida State Police and ask. fixed it Restored it, with emphasis. Wasn't broke. A cop will tell you the law. A lawyer will tell you what won't get him in trouble. I have a few friends in both careers. Edited May 19, 2012 by patriot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 A cop will tell you the law Most cops don't know the REAL law, you'll get 10 different "opinions" from 5 different cops. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 So I guess he's fucked? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't say he is "sexually compromised" I personally wouldn't "convey" any long gun in a vehicle cocked and locked, in plain sight, in reach of the driver, but as I related above, I have seen it done and no arrest made even after a serious accident. In Colorado I heard of a few "hunting" "accidents" ( I feel there are very few "accidents" involving firearms, usually they are stupid mistakes) where a loaded, chambered rifle or shotgun in a vehicle discharged, killing or maiming someone. I usually have a compact .45 left side cross draw while driving, or a.380 in center console, maybe another .45 in glove compartment, extra mags, all chambered, all legal, but who, me, paranoid? I drive a Yukon now, so a couple of long guns, loaded but not chambered, in the back cargo area, maybe a Benelli, Saiga 12 but mag not inserted, an AR or 2, depends on where I'm going, what I'm doing, but I teach folks how to handle firearms safely. Some times I'm not carrying, I've been warned that's when I will wish I had! Guess I'm just an old Boy Scout, Be Prepared! Edited May 20, 2012 by wearefla Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Read this http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf The OP's head has to be spinning by now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Dad2142Dad, that link is correct, at least as far as my understanding of Florida law anyway. Please forgive my ignorance, but who is OP, Office of the President? Or shorthand for Opie from Mayberry? LOL This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012. Rep. Baxley, coauthor of Florida's Castle Doctrine Law (Stand your ground as well) used to be a neighbor, God bless some politicians anyway, he's one of the good guys, we have a few in the Sunshine State! bluezguy, "A firearm other than a handgun may be carried anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use." I personally feel an AK or shotgun wouldn't be a practical first response to a threat while you are driving a vehicle, do you travel in mostly rural, or urban, big city areas? If it's the latter, you never know when a LEO might wind up next to you at a stoplight, parking lot, etc. What if you were unconscious after an accident? I would suggest carrying your AK in a case at a minimum. I just realized, you never got an answer to your question "does the CCW apply only to a firearm concealed on your person?" The answer is yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 OP = The original poster, in this case bluezguy. I personally feel an AK or shotgun wouldn't be a practical first response to a threat while you are driving a vehicle Your right, the vehicle should be the first response (As in run their dumb asses over). Handling a weapon while driving is not good. Having the rifle in a case or bag is good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yeah, I was in a vehicle when I was younger and maybe a little more foolish than I am now when someone shot a 12 ga out of the window. All windows were open, but I think my ears are still ringing, not that a handgun would be that much quieter. If you don't mind, I will use your words of wisdom in my next class! Have a great evening all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacSat 90 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Last I knew FL has a 3 move rule. no loaded firearms in a vehicle. example 1 load the mag into weapon, 2 pull back on slide, 3 squeeze trigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Check out: http://blogs.naplesn...-step-rule.html to learn about the "3 Step Rule" in Florida. That, along with concealed carry in places that serve alcohol and the fact you can carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle without a license are the 3 most common misconceptions I hear from students. And you should see their eyes when I tell them about squibs and hangfires! Edited May 19, 2012 by wearefla Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 A 1911 .45 auto, fired in a car, is deafening. I don't want to be around when a rifle is fired in a car. I like my ears when they're not bleeding. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bluezguy 4 Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 A cop will tell you the law Most cops don't know the REAL law, you'll get 10 different "opinions" from 5 different cops. Thanks for all your replies! This above quote is exactly my experience at the moment. I'm in the motor vehicle business 40 hours a week and do have a good number of law enforcement customers come through the store regularly. The question has been posed to a lot of them with the answer being different almost every time - a number of them also admitting to not really knowing for sure. An email was sent to the Department of Agriculture in Tallahassee (they issue the licences) a few weeks ago and I have not yet recieved a response. Tried to phone them numerous times - forget about it, you're on hold forever. On the comment of keeping ammo separated from firearm ... that seems to be general consensus amongst regular folk in my area. As for my head spinnin' ??? This is one of the most informative AND entertaining forums I've come across 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 First off dont ask a Police Officer about the 790 Law, a lot of them have no clue. I have two cousins that are LEO's in Fla. If you must ask someone to explain the law to you consult a Firearm Attorney, or a Firearm Instructor in Florida. When you take the CCW Class you will or should have received a Packet, in that Packet you will have a Booklet that says Fla 790. Below I have copied the page that should answer your question. I am a certified NRA Firearms Instructor in Fla. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hey Sumsky, I'm NRA as well. I meet many people who've taken courses, got nothing on firearm safety or concealed carry law, some don't even get a certificate, then can't contact their instructor! They call me wanting to know if I or the state have a copy for them! I teach First Steps Pistol, then a detailed look at the law, discussion and questions/answers. They get an application with instructions on how to fill it out, course materials and access to books and websites for more info, and I let them know they can call or email questions anytime. You give the same advice I do, consult an attorney who specializes in Florida gun law for answers to legal questions. So far I have found no one better than Jon H Gutmacher, but I would love to hear of others. I strongly recommend my students get his book, updated every year. Where are you located, and what are your thoughts on the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hey Sumsky, I'm NRA as well. I meet many people who've taken courses, got nothing on firearm safety or concealed carry law, some don't even get a certificate, then can't contact their instructor! They call me wanting to know if I or the state have a copy for them! I teach First Steps Pistol, then a detailed look at the law, discussion and questions/answers. They get an application with instructions on how to fill it out, course materials and access to books and websites for more info, and I let them know they can call or email questions anytime. You give the same advice I do, consult an attorney who specializes in Florida gun law for answers to legal questions. So far I have found no one better than Jon H Gutmacher, but I would love to hear of others. I strongly recommend my students get his book, updated every year. Where are you located, and what are your thoughts on the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case? Check your PM Box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacSat 90 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 good to know Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hey, 34442 here. Thoughts on it? I think its crap. I also think that if the laws ARE changed, tops that it would be Manslaughter, or should be more or less kept to that limit. -The Yankee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Heh so I guess my RPG might be a problem also... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Howdy again folks, after rereading and thinking about how this thread is going, I wanted to say this: If you own 1 or more firearms or other weapons and live in the state of Florida or plan to visit Florida with your firearm(s) and or weapons, you need to read (just as mentioned by Sumsky above) Chapter 790 of the Florida Statutes Weapons and Firearms 2011 You can read it online, or order a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Application from the Florida Department of Agriculture even if you are not going to apply for the license, as the application packet includes a copy of Chapter 790, they will mail you the packet for free. You should get this application packet when you take a Concealed class in Florida but I have heard of people who did not receive it or are not encouraged to read it, and may not even be made aware of it. In my classes we cover the law's most pertinent aspects, but every student gets a copy in the application packet with the strong suggestion they read the entire statute twice What is most important is that every person who wants to possess a firearm or other weapon anywhere in the state, be it at home, in your vehicle, work, fishing, hunting or camping, just visiting (yes, some tourists are armed) or any other place should have an as complete as possible understanding of the current laws as they are actually written, whether or not they plan on carrying a weapon concealed. Anyone with access to a computer can research this themselves but it seems lots of folks rely on what they have "heard" from a LEO or someone else, including forums! I know when we talk about the law in class I often learn something new or hear new questions or misconceptions about the law. Keep in mind as well there is more to the law than just the statutes, there is also case law (the outcome of cases, decided by a judge or jury and accepted as a legal precedent to "interpret" the law) That is why it is also very important to know what the most current accepted legal precedents are, and you can find that out from attorneys who are experts in Florida Weapons Law, like the attorney and book I mentioned above, Florida Firearms Law. Please check out Understanding the Three-Step rule to clear up that misconception! There are also many excellent books on use of force, like "Facing Violence" by Rory Miller. The above posts are kind of confusing and jumbled together, with some misconceptions that might end up being quoted as fact. Please research and read, the more you know the better off you will be IMHO. I'm happy to try to answer questions you might have if I can, but I will be the first to tell you to consult an attorney when I feel it necessary. Also, I gladly listen to other's knowledge and advice, I am by no means infallible, I make mistakes, especially when I am typing on a forum at 1 AM after a long day, just couldn't get to sleep until I got this done. Use common sense, and be safe! And Rhodes1968, I might be going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure RPG's in your vehicle in Florida is probably a no no. I'm sure you Cajuns need rpg's from time to time for really big gators! Edited May 20, 2012 by wearefla Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buddykermit 16 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 a cop doesnt always know what they are talking about, i was actually just in florida for vacation a month ago and was walking around with my ccdw. i struck up a conversation with some police and they tried to say my ccdw was not valid there blah blah blah. well being an nra member and a knowledgeable dude on the matter i went on to tell them about the national right to carry law yadda yadda. i walked away not in handcuffs and they walked away with a knowledge nugget. this has also happened to me in ky before i had my ccdw i would keep my pistol in the glove box. got pulled over and was being rightfully harassed (i used to be a "wigger" years ago) about my pistol. once again the cop was surprised to learn that i had the ky state statute completely memorized as well as printed off in my wallet although this doesnt answer your question i thought it might help on the matter of police & ccdw & imo theyd prefer that citizens not be armed but there are always exceptions but this is the rule. talk to a lawyer or 2. do a few google searches- youll be fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hey buddykermit, hope you enjoyed your visit to Florida, Kentucky ccdw is definitely still honored here, I am glad you could educate those officers. What national right to carry law are you referring to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 The National Right to Carry was enumerated in the Bill of Rights; Amendment the 2nd. Anything else is "permission" from our overlords. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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