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Kushnapup Bullpup Stock. MY REVIEW.


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#61 pjd393

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:23 PM


Hey that looks about right. Thanks for the pic.

The rail tilt could be solved with either a vertical spacer, or by notching the Kpup.

Do you have to split this kit apart to remove the top cover? I love how easy it is to strip an AK, it would be sad if this kit takes that away from you.



Yes... you have to remove the rear buttpad, then the right side of the buttstock to get the dustcover off. Posted Image

Posted Image

That's not a huge deal! Only 2 screws for the butt pad and 3 for the stock? Then the gun could be field cleaned?

#62 pjd393

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:40 PM


How about a picture holding it so we can see how it lines up with your eye in a natural stance?


Ask and you shall receive... Posted Image



Hope that helps...

I am also sporting a JUGGERNAUT GRAPHICS "Wolverines" shirt... Posted Image BOO YAH!!!

( and YES... I know the date was OFF on the freakin camera again!!! )

Posted Image

Honestly, I think it could beneficial to have the rail jammed over the stock and angled forward a little for two reasons>
1.) Having is snug against the stock will only make the connection more solid to resist vibration. You might want to find a piece of high density thin foam tape and apply it to the underside of the pic rail so that it cushions the space between the rail and the stock.

2.) The site is SO high above the barrel that having it pitched forward will help for short range (I'm using it for HD). I would still need to adjust the vertical height downward anyway. Far better to angle down than up! *IF* the price is as economical as I think it will be I will buy two and play with cutting it down to a 3 slot pic.

What if they retooled the part to have a 5 slot forward design? Would the forward cantilever cause too much vertical play in vibration?

I like "GunFun's" idea of a taller vertical spacer.

I was even thinking of mounting an angled space like this on top of the CSS pic mount.
http://yhm.net/index...products_id=126e

That way the red dot would be on the left side of the barrel (easier to sight given the lngth is so short from the butt to the sight). With any luck I could cut the CSS pic down on 2 slots on the backside and still get this to work. I don't mind trying R & D for fun!

#63 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:51 PM

So the new rail mount doesn't clear the kushnapup? Wonder of there is a way to make a slightly taller dovetail mount.

#64 GunFun

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:57 PM

Sure.

Use the same dovetail, and tall base 1913 rail.

Or, grab a chunk of aluminum or steel, and grind it into a tall dovetail, cleaning with a file as you get close so as to keep proper angels sharp. Drill and tap for set screws and otherwise assemble just the same as the one above. I've toyed with making a dovetail mount for an adjustable peep.

#65 DrThunder88

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:15 AM

I am liking micro dots more and more, and this short rail seems like a good system for it. I get the feeling that it could be made just a bit lower for standard stock users, but the tradeoff would be a lot more machining and increased price. Similarly, a few set screws on either side of the dovetail attachment might eliminate chances for it to deform by pivoting. I like it!

#66 CarolinaSS

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:33 AM

We have had the rail in the works for a few months before the bullpup release and I have not held one. We could make a taller dovetail key to fit the rail.
Indy how much taller would it need to be to clear the plastic?
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#67 mavereq

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

We have had the rail in the works for a few months before the bullpup release and I have not held one. We could make a taller dovetail key to fit the rail.
Indy how much taller would it need to be to clear the plastic?


I just want to know when I can order the short rail and how much it's going to cost...

To the OP: great writeup. One of my coworkers ordered a full firearm from these guys so I should be able to try it out next month. If CSS offers the short rail modified for this stock I'll be sure to point him in that direction.

#68 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:52 AM

We have had the rail in the works for a few months before the bullpup release and I have not held one. We could make a taller dovetail key to fit the rail.
Indy how much taller would it need to be to clear the plastic?



that sounds awesome

#69 -Indy-

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:39 PM

We have had the rail in the works for a few months before the bullpup release and I have not held one. We could make a taller dovetail key to fit the rail.
Indy how much taller would it need to be to clear the plastic?


Ok... took it all apart again, so I could line things up and look...

I would say that if the dovetail was 50% taller, it would still make contact on the plastic over the dustcover, but would sit more level... If you went DOUBLE the current dovetail height it would certainly clear, but would not touch anything, and be "floating" above the gun, so to speak... some people might want, that, others might like having it touch.
I would say that IF you were going to increase thickness of the dovetail, the front of the rail itself on the front, bottom edge, should be increased by double that thickness, to create a contact point. so if it gets bumped, it would not have the potential to "rock" and come out of the dovetail joint. I am going to save this text now... and snap some pics... so everyone can see what I mean...

Ok that went smoother than I thought... without 3 hands. LOL Posted Image

One is with no flash... and the laptop monitor backlights the spacing... the second is with flash...

You can see where material would need to be added, and how much in comparison to what is already there as you know the dims of the current product.

Attached File  railspace1.jpg   189.88KB   3 downloads

Attached File  railspace2.jpg   247.56KB   1 downloads

I put the calipers up to it and as close as I can tell, as its tough to get them in there properly... ( again, it would help if I had three hands Posted Image ) It measures 0.125" of gap between the front of the rail and the gas tube it sits above. So an eighth of an inch thicker on the front and ( here's where it loses all technicality... ) ABOUT half again the thickness of the dovetail insert.

I wish I had better tools to make the "top of dovetail to rail" measurement with... if I had a feeler gauge I could set it to the thickness I need, then know exactly what thickness to add to the dovetail... I tried to lie the calipers along the side of the dovetail insert and "eyeball it" to the top of the plastic that covers the dust cover... and I am thinking my CURRENT top of dovetail insert to plastic cover height is .14" give or take .005". there is some flex to the plastic cover... so.14" is probably very close. Whether it would be different on someone else's shotgun... I have no clue... As the dovetail insert in MINE actually sits cocked forward before I even PUT the rail on it... <shrug>

Hope that helps what I have gotten so far...

Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
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"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#70 Mr.BlahX3

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:44 PM

My Kushnapup is on the way
Saiga 7.62
MKA-1919
ccw

#71 mavidal

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:05 PM

We have had the rail in the works for a few months before the bullpup release and I have not held one. We could make a taller dovetail key to fit the rail.
Indy how much taller would it need to be to clear the plastic?


Carolina, you can count me in on wanting one of these also.

Mike


We have had the rail in the works for a few months before the bullpup release and I have not held one. We could make a taller dovetail key to fit the rail.
Indy how much taller would it need to be to clear the plastic?


Ok... took it all apart again, so I could line things up and look...

I would say that if the dovetail was 50% taller, it would still make contact on the plastic over the dustcover, but would sit more level... If you went DOUBLE the current dovetail height it would certainly clear, but would not touch anything, and be "floating" above the gun, so to speak... some people might want, that, others might like having it touch.


Snipped for Brevity: Indy, thank you so much for taking the time to post these pics and the reviews. It helps me in my decision making to finish off my kush.

Mike

#72 -Indy-

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:18 PM

I am going to try for range time with slugs this afternoon... if I can get it Zeroed the way it sits now... I am not even going to bother messing with it... I think there is enough adjustment in the optic for me to get it pretty darn close at 50 yards. :up:

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#73 -Indy-

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:18 PM

Well... I got to the range this afternoon... dumped about 50 2.75" slugs through this shotgun... a mix of Remington sluggers, federal, federal tru-ball, Winchester super x, and Brenneke KO's

I tried to get it sighted it in... at 50 yards...

Got it really close... its still about 4" high and about 4 inches left at 50 yards.. and I ran out of adjustment on the elevation... and it seemed that no matter how much I tried to move it to the right... it just seemed like it didnt quite move enough... I ran out of slugs before I got it perfectly dialed in.. I have a couple turns of elevation left... and I think more than enough left <-> right still.... I might just give it a few more clicks right and call it close enough! LOL :up:

It worked pretty decent, for sure... stayed solid... no movement of the mount, the rail, or the optic...

I met up with a couple shooting buddies over there, and let them each run a couple mags through it... they both LOVED the setup!!! One especially loves the bullpup design configuration on any firearm... and has never yet shot the S12.... and to get to shoot BOTH... well, he was ecstatic!! :up:

he has an unconverted S-308 and plans to bring it over one of these days, and we are going to swap out the S12 for the 308... and I will be sure to let every one know how the 308 fares in this Kpup stock!! Cause I am interested myself.... if it fits and functions perfectly... I just found my next purchase... ANOTHER Saiga 21" 308!!!! :up: :up:


:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#74 pjd393

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:21 PM

Well... I got to the range this afternoon... dumped about 50 2.75" slugs through this shotgun... a mix of Remington sluggers, federal, federal tru-ball, Winchester super x, and Brenneke KO's

I tried to get it sighted it in... at 50 yards...

Got it really close... its still about 4" high and about 4 inches left at 50 yards.. and I ran out of adjustment on the elevation... and it seemed that no matter how much I tried to move it to the right... it just seemed like it didnt quite move enough... I ran out of slugs before I got it perfectly dialed in.. I have a couple turns of elevation left... and I think more than enough left <-> right still.... I might just give it a few more clicks right and call it close enough! LOL Posted Image

It worked pretty decent, for sure... stayed solid... no movement of the mount, the rail, or the optic...

I met up with a couple shooting buddies over there, and let them each run a couple mags through it... they both LOVED the setup!!! One especially loves the bullpup design configuration on any firearm... and has never yet shot the S12.... and to get to shoot BOTH... well, he was ecstatic!! Posted Image

he has an unconverted S-308 and plans to bring it over one of these days, and we are going to swap out the S12 for the 308... and I will be sure to let every one know how the 308 fares in this Kpup stock!! Cause I am interested myself.... if it fits and functions perfectly... I just found my next purchase... ANOTHER Saiga 21" 308!!!! Posted Image Posted Image


Posted Image

Actually, your posts of the pic rail got me off the fence and I ordered my Kush today!!! :)

#75 Mr.BlahX3

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:13 PM

Nice write up.
Have you been able to zero your optic?
Saiga 7.62
MKA-1919
ccw

#76 Shotty091

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

Damn nice review! I like the mod you did to keep the tangs. I was thinking about masking off the weapon in order to spray the grip and foregrip with this Dupli-Color TR250 rubber truck bed coating http://www.summitrac...arts/SHW-TR250/
What do you think?
"Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"
- The Outlaw Josey Wales

#77 mavidal

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:28 PM

Damn nice review! I like the mod you did to keep the tangs. I was thinking about masking off the weapon in order to spray the grip and foregrip with this Dupli-Color TR250 rubber truck bed coating http://www.summitrac...arts/SHW-TR250/
What do you think?


Shotty, for the tang retrofit, you may want to take a look at this thread http://forum.saiga-1...pup-conversion/ as this is what I did. Not as fancy as Indy's but just as functional.

Mike

#78 Shotty091

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:22 PM


Damn nice review! I like the mod you did to keep the tangs. I was thinking about masking off the weapon in order to spray the grip and foregrip with this Dupli-Color TR250 rubber truck bed coating http://www.summitrac...arts/SHW-TR250/
What do you think?


Shotty, for the tang retrofit, you may want to take a look at this thread http://forum.saiga-1...pup-conversion/ as this is what I did. Not as fancy as Indy's but just as functional.

Mike


I like that rubber cushon mod you did. I was actually thinking of using the textured rubber liner spray to create a textured rubber surface on the pistol grip though.
"Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"
- The Outlaw Josey Wales

#79 Twitch 0415

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 03:24 PM

Damn nice review! I like the mod you did to keep the tangs. I was thinking about masking off the weapon in order to spray the grip and foregrip with this Dupli-Color TR250 rubber truck bed coating http://www.summitrac...arts/SHW-TR250/
What do you think?


Shotty, having worked in the automotive industry and sold Duplicolor products, I would not recommend that you use the truck bed coating to cover your grip areas. In the description it clearly states that it is a non-skid product. Basically what that means is that it dries very hard and has numerous surface edges that are not soft. You would cut the daylights of both your hands if you use this. Go to an auto parts store and look at the display. Some of them have a sample of the dried product. Just tryin to save you a headache before you get it.
A soldier above all prays for peace, for it is he that must bear the wounds and scars of war.


#80 Shotty091

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:13 AM


Damn nice review! I like the mod you did to keep the tangs. I was thinking about masking off the weapon in order to spray the grip and foregrip with this Dupli-Color TR250 rubber truck bed coating http://www.summitrac...arts/SHW-TR250/
What do you think?


Shotty, having worked in the automotive industry and sold Duplicolor products, I would not recommend that you use the truck bed coating to cover your grip areas. In the description it clearly states that it is a non-skid product. Basically what that means is that it dries very hard and has numerous surface edges that are not soft. You would cut the daylights of both your hands if you use this. Go to an auto parts store and look at the display. Some of them have a sample of the dried product. Just tryin to save you a headache before you get it.

Hey Twitch, thanks a lot for the heads up. I shall reconsider until I find a better alternative. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of the product.
"Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"
- The Outlaw Josey Wales

#81 scoutjoe

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:12 AM

Glad to see it come out, I know a local writer around here wants to get one for a write up. The cutting of the tang might be a deal breaker for him though
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#82 -Indy-

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:14 PM

no need to cut the tang.... easy enough to work around... :up:



:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#83 scoutjoe

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:18 AM

no need to cut the tang.... easy enough to work around... Posted Image



Posted Image


For someone who is used to working on guns.....I don't know his skill set.
"Additionally, I refuse to date a girl if she doesn't know how to proficiently load, unload, and operate any of my weapons"~AegisDei

"Tony has a credibility in the gun industry that bullshit cannot tarnish"~BobAsh

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87. If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.

Gun owner in PA? You need to check this out http://www.pafoa.org/

#84 mavidal

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:48 PM


no need to cut the tang.... easy enough to work around... Posted Image



Posted Image


For someone who is used to working on guns.....I don't know his skill set.


Scoutjoe: Look at post 77 in this thread, I am an Industrial engineer but have been working in telecomms for the last 30+ years. Gunsmith I am not, but trust me, this mod with the rubber buttpad anyone can do. I used a drill to open and ream a slot in the rubber butt pad to cover the width of the upper tang. It ain't pretty, but what the hell do I care, the stock butt plate covers it and it is functional as hell. Just two phillips zinc plated self tapping #6 X 1 3/4" (if I remember right) screws to take into account the additional length and your done.

Trust me on this, piece of cake.

Now for the rear sight mod, I'm hoping it is as simple as Indy says it is. Based on what I saw with my gun and what he wrote, should be very simple to knock off the factory sight and put the sight rail base in its place.

Mike

#85 CarolinaSS

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:59 PM

The rear sight can be very stubborn on some guns and need to have a cut across them before they will come out.

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#86 severephitz

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:21 PM

I have the ultimak rail and run a burris fast fire II on it just like I do with my SB S12 and it works well... The only thing I really have to add is that I do not like Bjorn one bit... I bought two of these on preorder and they sent a flyer with them saying you can get a discount on the next because you were a preorder... I am in the military and did a 30 day JCET and now that I am home I wanted to get another stock with the discount offered in thier flyer but because I obviously have no idea where the stupid little flyer is they won't honor it. Kinda stupid I know as I lost the flyer however I think it is crap they can just as easily look to see that I was not one but two of the original preorders so I should qualify... and I WAS OUT OF THE F-ing country with the military... anyway that is my take on the company itself... but the stock works well as I said I want to get a third...

I have the ultimak rail and run a burris fast fire II on it just like I do with my SB S12 and it works well... The only thing I really have to add is that I do not like Bjorn one bit... I bought two of these on preorder and they sent a flyer with them saying you can get a discount on the next because you were a preorder... I am in the military and did a 30 day JCET and now that I am home I wanted to get another stock with the discount offered in thier flyer but because I obviously have no idea where the stupid little flyer is they won't honor it. Kinda stupid I know as I lost the flyer however I think it is crap they can just as easily look to see that I was not one but two of the original preorders so I should qualify... and I WAS OUT OF THE F-ing country with the military... anyway that is my take on the company itself... but the stock works well as I said I want to get a third...

#87 -Indy-

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 07:45 PM


no need to cut the tang.... easy enough to work around... Posted Image



Posted Image


For someone who is used to working on guns.....I don't know his skill set.


Joe... also check out exactly what I did to add on... just chopped the stock off with a miter saw ( but really any saw would work... handsaw, bandsaw, table saw, jigsaw, etc... ) a little over an inch from the end... made sure the holes were clear, and used a LONGER screw to attach. DONE.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#88 mavidal

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:10 AM

The rear sight can be very stubborn on some guns and need to have a cut across them before they will come out.


Wanted to let you know that I got the Kushnapup rail kit Saturday 6/23. The stock site gave me no trouble (thank you) in drifting off the stock as per indy's suggestions, from the left. Your product fit like a glove, and the clearance from the stock is perfect. Got my optics mounted and it works like a champ. I also got a 12 gauge laser bore sighter to help me get the optics set up for final tuning at the range. Pictures will follow in a bit as I have to attend to a sick spouse.

Thanks to all for your reviews and suggestions.

Mike

#89 -Indy-

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:28 AM


The rear sight can be very stubborn on some guns and need to have a cut across them before they will come out.


Wanted to let you know that I got the Kushnapup rail kit Saturday 6/23. The stock site gave me no trouble (thank you) in drifting off the stock as per indy's suggestions, from the left. Your product fit like a glove, and the clearance from the stock is perfect. Got my optics mounted and it works like a champ. I also got a 12 gauge laser bore sighter to help me get the optics set up for final tuning at the range. Pictures will follow in a bit as I have to attend to a sick spouse.

Thanks to all for your reviews and suggestions.

Mike


This post is WORTHLESS without PICS!!!! LOL :up:


:smoke:

I also got the updated rail from CSS last night... the one with the tensioning set screws... I will get pics posted ASAP... :up:

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#90 mavidal

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:21 PM



The rear sight can be very stubborn on some guns and need to have a cut across them before they will come out.


Wanted to let you know that I got the Kushnapup rail kit Saturday 6/23. The stock site gave me no trouble (thank you) in drifting off the stock as per indy's suggestions, from the left. Your product fit like a glove, and the clearance from the stock is perfect. Got my optics mounted and it works like a champ. I also got a 12 gauge laser bore sighter to help me get the optics set up for final tuning at the range. Pictures will follow in a bit as I have to attend to a sick spouse.

Thanks to all for your reviews and suggestions.

Mike


This post is WORTHLESS without PICS!!!! LOL Posted Image


Posted Image

I also got the updated rail from CSS last night... the one with the tensioning set screws... I will get pics posted ASAP... Posted Image

Posted Image


Ok Indy, I'll get you some better pics tomorrow as I convinced the wife that I want to take pictures of all the weapons for insurance purposes, but I was able to sneak these off today. Tough when you have a sick spouse at home and they don't leave you alone.

Need to use a different camera and better lighting as this Nikon does not like close ups very much.

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Attached File  DSCN2452.JPG   325.85KB   14 downloads

Attached File  DSCN2453.JPG   324.74KB   14 downloads

Mike
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