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accident / negligent discharge / or stupidity?


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Gary, that is indeed an interesting theory. However, I don't think it is an apples-to-apples comparison since riding a bike (or rock climbing) has many more external factors.

 

For instance, when riding, not only do you have to worry about yourself but also the other people on the road. Even if you do your part and follow the rules, there's always a chance some asshat plows into you and makes you fall.

 

With firearm safety, the responsibility rests on your shoulders, and only your shoulders.

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I e-mailed one of the instructors at GunSite. Here's the exchange.

 

Me - "You guys mentioned AD's occurring during reholstering due to a shirt tail getting in the trigger guard. Does that happen more often with Glock type triggers, or does it happen equally to all pistols?

 

Response - "Mostly with the Glock/XD/M&P type striker fired guns, since there is no other manual safety in place. It's also mostly with inside the pants type holsters, but not always.

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The shirt gets caught in the trigger guard from the inboard side, not from the outside. Your finger placement on the outside of the guard won't do squat. That's why it happens all the time.

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This is why I only carry my Glock 27 OWB now. I recently bought a safari style vest for the warmer months that works well to conceal over a t-shirt.

 

I much prefer OWB carry.

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I e-mailed one of the instructors at GunSite. Here's the exchange.

 

Me - "You guys mentioned AD's occurring during reholstering due to a shirt tail getting in the trigger guard. Does that happen more often with Glock type triggers, or does it happen equally to all pistols?

 

Response - "Mostly with the Glock/XD/M&P type striker fired guns, since there is no other manual safety in place. It's also mostly with inside the pants type holsters, but not always.

 

Maybe so Tony, but look at what organizations like GunSite end up for students. Po-Dunk LEO or Mall Ninjas that never had any formal training but have the money to pay for the class... So they surf the net, Glock or MP is the most dependable pistol to get, 9mm cheaper to shoot, so get one of them and some high speed airsoft quality nylon to sport at class. Have you actually seen what these Fudds with money show up to class with? Idiots without a clue wanting to play hardball and their choice in weapons and equipment is from the net, not from trial and error or experience, or that of others. When they "Graduate" the course, they think they are "Operators" from the bullshit pumped into them from bogus instructors.

Instructors with shitty credentials and no practical experience plus a false sense of superiority definitley equal poor training. There is a shit ton of classes out there taught by so called "Experts in the Field", who have never been through any Military training, actual Combat, or involved in any kind of gun fight whatsoever. A lot of these classes are taught by guys who are Viet Nam Vets. No offense intended but those tactics and training are so old school, a caveman can do it. My Dad looked into that bullshit for a "retirement" job and I steered him waaaay clear of it. Most of these so called professional firearms training facilities are geared for Joe Blow and Fudd PD/Sheriff's Dept. Seasoned LEO and Military steer clear of certain sites.

Edited by MT Predator
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The shirt gets caught in the trigger guard from the inboard side, not from the outside. Your finger placement on the outside of the guard won't do squat. That's why it happens all the time.

.

This is why I only carry my Glock 27 OWB now. I recently bought a safari style vest for the warmer months that works well to conceal over a t-shirt.

 

I much prefer OWB carry.

That'll work if you tuck your shirt in for sure. I know guys who carry 1911s cocked and unlocked thinking they have an edge without it being on safe. Another bullet wound in the making in my opinion.

 

When I was at GunSite for a week, almost all of the class were made up of soldiers that had just returned from Iraq and were going back shortly.

 

Tony

 

Were they "Support Troops" whose unit had money to burn or actual trigger pullers? I find it hard to believe actual front line pipe hitters were going to GunSite for training. The Military has more than enough acreage in ranges and Combat experience to conduct training in house.

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I know the article says he pulled the trigger, but I also know how people's brains work. If the gun went off (especially if he is an experianced shooter) he probably thought "the only way this glock could have went off is if I pulled the trigger, I must have pulled the trigger".

 

I read a story of a police officer who was holding his index finger extended when he was being attacked and the attackers hand hit the trigger the police officers pistol fired a round. But the police officer gave a statment that he pulled the trigger (because he thought that was the only way it could have happend) a video later found showed that he didn't.

 

I think it was likely the shirt thing tony suggested, just my oppinion.

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john browning was a genius. i have owned 1911's in the past. carried one in the military police and civilian security work. it is of course antiquated technology. however, browning's design is possibly better and safer than a glock. naturally training is always a factor.

glock + stupidity

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The dumbass-discharge was what I had in mind when I read about the instructor shooting himself.

 

Don't know about the instructor, but that DEA agent who was teaching a class was definitely fucking stupid.

 

"I'm the only one qualified enough.."

you are damn right.... how stupid does he feel after that happend??? this is a unloaded gun kids... BOOM!!! damn, im a dumb ass.... and i pissed my pants in front of 10 yr olds.....
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Well, pretty-much everyone has covered all the viewpoints; there's nothing I can add.

 

The following thought crossed my mind as I was reading through the replies to this thread: Rock climbers and that ole' saying, "There are those that have fallen, and those that have yet to fall." (I'd say that applies equally to motorcyclists laugh.png .) So. . . perhaps if an individual is around firearms long enough; they are involved either at the instructor level, or simply due to their profession have a firearm with them throughout most of their day, almost every day (i.e., military, LEO, etc.) . . . statistically, sooner or later they are likely to experience a negligent discharge.

 

Interesting premise, no? happy.png

 

Obviously, all the more reason to never become complacent whenever around or handling a firearm (like, "duh" right?)

Not all view points yet, how about not having a chambered gun in the classroom? If there were no bullet in the pipe, the dumbass wouldnt have shot himself.

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25yrs ago, after military training, I put a hole in my ceiling with a .22 rifle. Scared the shit outa me. 40yrs ago I was shot in the mouth with a BBgun by a older neighbor kid because he didn't think it was loaded. Both incidents were complete negligence. Fortunately, no major damage was done. Sometimes, we just have to learn from our own mistakes to REALLY get it. Most people will have one negligent discharge at some point in their life. With any luck, it eill be in a relatively controled situation and no major damage will be done. Training is only part of the lesson, actual learning is the biggest part.

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Always check your weapons. I had an accidental discharge when I pulled the trigger on my friend's AK not knowing that he had it loaded. The Israeli army procedure is to check the weapon before handing it to someone else and he has the check the weapon to see if it's clear when receiving it. Thank G-d nobody was in the house at the time and nobody got hurt but another friend said that it was a good lesson and next time I'll be a lot more careful.

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It's scary how often this happens. Thanks guys, for being man enough to share your personal experiences so that others may learn from it.

 

My dad had one before I was born; he said it hit the floor and came within inches of hitting his dog.

 

He quickly ran outside and started nervously sweeping his front porch and to make sure no one was freaking out lol.

Edited by KennyFSU
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When I lived in an appartment there were two middle-aged women who lived next door. One night a 9mm round came through our wall and luckily stopped in the stair handrail instead of coming in the living room where we all were.

THEY DIDN"T EVEN COME OVER TO MAKE SURE WE WERE OK!

I wasn't home, just my wife and children, my wife said she heard them go outside screaming about "what happend" and "I think I busted my ear drums" and got in there car and left!

 

The only consolation was that the police said they shot through their big screen TV.

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Here's another one, My dad used to have a huge thing for having his finger on the trigger ALL the time. I bitched at him repeatedly about this, but to no avail. One day after hunting, he was pulling is 7mm mag out of the truck to put in the rifle case and....you know it.. he had his fingur on the trigger. BOOM, he puts a whole in not just the door of his big 4x4, but two holes in his little work truck and shredded the hose, radiator and a tire. Myself and a buddy/coworker were in the shop not 10' from the work truck.

 

I've never had to call him on his trigger finger since. Some of us have to learn lessons harder than others.

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