Castalia 19 Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) This topic has been debated on this forum quite a bit with differing opinions. Here is a video of bird shot into MEAT. Draw your own conclusions. [media=] [/media] Castalia Edited June 8, 2012 by Castalia 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Kinda shows who's full of shit, doesn't it? Nasty wounds! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think birdshot would be more of a death sentence than buckshot if the recipient actually lived long enough to go to the ER. Seems like it would be extremely hard to stop the bleeding with all of those small holes. If they were gutshot, they would likely get infection as well. I have always been an advocate of birdshot when the potential for injuring/killing unintended targets exists within the home. The first time I shot a 5 gallon bucket with birshot.... I knew it was GTG for HD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 My 12 gauge isn't normally what I use inside the house but when I do I prefer #4 shot over 00. Looks like #6 birdshot would be plenty good enough. Gonna get a bit more spread out of a 19 barrel than the bird gun he used but like he said, at twenty feet it would be devastating. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have always believed bird shot is just as good if not better at close range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theturtlepond 31 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Every round has the capability to kill a person at that distance. Glad somebody put it in plain English. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I would also think in a self defense situation there would be more than one round fired as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have a case of 2 ounce #4 turkey loads that I always figured would do the job if I was worried about over penetration. I'd bet those would have chewed a nasty hole clean through that bag of meat and bone. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dustindu4 101 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I would bet my Saiga that that guy still ate that meat 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I would bet my Saiga that that guy still ate that meat Waste not, want not. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Honestly I had my doubts...not any more. Nasty! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronin38 2,117 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Honestly I had my doubts...not any more. Nasty! Same here, based on other demonstrations showing it's seeming lack of penetration. I guess I'll revise that opinion. I have some #4 loads myself, and 00 Buck, but it looks like just about any reliable, affordable ammo would be quite sufficient from a shotgun at "indoor" ranges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lws43 1 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I know him personaly and he probably can afford more meat then you and i put together. Hes a heck of a nice guy and as honest as they come. He and his brother boge are characters but i guess some would say the same about me. I would bet my Saiga that that guy still ate that meat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ARCHANGEL 104 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Good vid. No speculation. Instead used a plain common sense approach to prove the point . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Another one.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfilArIHlY&feature=relmfu 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB A. BOOEY 45 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think I'll just stick with my .40 cal for home defense until the zombies come.....problem solved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonking 149 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 If you live in an apartment, birdshot is alright, but for a residential home #4 buck is the lowest I'll go. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 My conclusion from this is the same that I always draw from any birdshot test... birdshot creates a large shallow, wound at about 4 inches in depth and lacks penetration. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anathoth 4 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'll keep birdshot in mind.. next time I'm accosted by little birds. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BB42 4 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 For HD? Buckshot, dude. BUCK shot. Personally, I'm okay with 00, #1 or #4. I stock all three. Birdshot is for birds...unless the buckshot runs out during the zombie apocalypse. In that situation, aim for the head...multiple times 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfbz 3 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I like to load my home defense mossberg pump with (in firing order) Bird, bird, buck, buck, slug. Though I it unlikely that any intruder is still going to be aggressive after a chest/gut/face load of birdshot at 20 feet... Edited June 10, 2012 by pfbz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I would bet my Saiga that that guy still ate that meat SOUP! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AtlSaiga 25 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 people that thought that bird shot COULDN'T kill a human were idiots (especially at across-the-room distances), and shouldn't have been listened to in the first place. its clear that birdshot digs out and tears up flesh. there is going to be a lot of blood loss with really no way to fix it. the difference with buck is that it can penetrate. bird will dig out a 4" well, buck will drill 9 holes much deeper. if a baddie is in your house and you shoot them in the face from 3 feet away with bird or buck, they aren't coming back. that being said, I prefer the options that buck provides. against soft, clothed targets, at close distances both will work. increase the distance or durability (read: really heave clothes or armor) and bird won't work. Buck might, it might not. but I'd take a 10% chance of it working over 0%. keep a couple slugs in your pocket just in case. and really with HD, you need to have layered security. if there is a bad guy in your room and you have to resort to blasting willy-nilly risking everyone around, you've already failed. HD should be such that you are never surprised. they can get in (maybe) but you'll already be up and ready for them because the previous few layers of security have already alerted you to their presence and location. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Nice video, but bear in mind that he is shooting a Remington Versamax Tactical with a 22" barrel...an excellent shotgun but not exactly my choice for HD. Shot pattern and penetration is a function of barrel length and choke. Also, I agree that your type of residence and/or proximity to neighbors should factor in when deciding which type of ammo to use. I live on a 1/4 acre lot in a subdivision...neighbors with kids close on both sides and across the street...can't take a chance with over penetration...#6 birdshot or the Federal law enforcement "low recoil" 00 buck is my choice for my particular living arrangement. Edited June 10, 2012 by tunnelrat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fox84 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I don't think I could stomach the ribs. I favor the meat experiment of the gel. I think 2's or 4 buckshot would be a happy medium. I lean to the 1 shot 1 kill way of thinking. I presently have low recoil 00 in a Mossy 500 181/2 barrel Edited June 10, 2012 by Fox84 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I can't think of anywhere on my body I could take a 4" x 4" hole and still feel frisky 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I can't think of anywhere on my body I could take a 4" x 4" hole and still feel frisky Even with a vest on the bad guy aint getting up to fast. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I can't think of anywhere on my body I could take a 4" x 4" hole and still feel frisky Even with a vest on the bad guy aint getting up to fast. I sell custom armor and can say from having tested a lot of vests that the BFD (back face deformation) from a close range 12 gauge hit is devastating, with buckshot and birdshot appearing the same until you get some range. Scarily sometimes s few birdshot pellets sneak through the kevlar, this never occurs with buckshot. In other words the pellets won't penetrate but there will be a 3" dent in your chest and only 1.57" is considered acceptable BFD. It's hard to be a threat when your busted up ribs are poking into your tattered lungs. Edited June 10, 2012 by preparehandbook 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 3", I dont think a bad would get up at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Hey, if you want to use birdshot for HD great, I don't need to test my Federal 0 Buck or my 230 grain +P Winchester Rangers. Overkill? Maybe... but the important part is the kill... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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