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Water heater bit the dust... any plumbers in the house?


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I noticed yesterday that my water heater was leaking. Upon closer inspection, I discovered that some kind of excess pressure situation had occured, as the side of the tank had swollen and had started to split at the seam. Needless to say, the unit is toast. It does beg the question though, how did it happen? There is also a temperature/pressure relief valve on the top of the tank itself that seems to be operational, (I had no problems actuating it by hand) and also an expansion tank on the cold water supply. Between the valve and the tank they should have prevented this, right?

 

Anyway, I'm looking for a new water heater now and can't help eye up these new-fangled tankless water heaters. I'm interested in a tankless unit not so much for their thermal efficiency (which I'm told takes a long time to get your money's worth from, given how much they cost) but rather from a space-saving standpoint. My current water heaters sits in a location that I'd like to one day have open when a finish the basement, whereas I could easily mount the tankless heater right above the washing machine.

 

So has anyone had any experience with the tankless units?

 

How does a properly-sized tankless heater perform compared to a conventional unit? I'd be going with an all-electrical model.

 

Also, code / water company requirements aside, is there any reason why one would need to use an expansion tank with a tankless water heater? Since the tankless units are only heating water on the fly as it travels through the unit, you don't have the same type of expansion dangers you do with a tank full of hot water, right?

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Other than the size advantage, I would say that there is really no reason to buy a tankless water heater. Most all are Gas operated so really can't be installed or repaired by the layman -- contrast that with a regular water heater. There is the cost difference which is huge -- add to that the massive increase in BTU's that you will be using every time you turn on the spigot to have instant hot water as compared to waiting 10-20 seconds. I have thought about going tankless but got educated. Look at the guarantees on the tankless -- the regulars got them beat so if you go tankless you can spend more money and look forward to repeating it sooner... I have also read that the tankless have problems with some of the piping rusting out -- admittedly this was a couple years ago so things may have changed for the better since. Just my Zwei Pfennigs...About all electric tankless -- they are few and far between. Check out their power requirements -- you will probably have to install another 200AMP service box. Think about that and your future electric bills...

Edited by Odd Man Out
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What Odd Man Out said, just put back what you have now.

Tankless is more geared towards commerical apps.

The little ones they make for homes are shit.

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Alot of the tankless are now segmented, ie, if the heating coils go bad, they can be switched out. Honestly, I would think that an electric tankless would use less electricity than the a tank which cycles on and off even if you're gone for a week. Average age for a tank is about 6yrs, some longer some not. Also consider if you have soft water or hard. The harder your water the less any heater will last. We've used tankless for long term camping and horse washing, they work great but are gas. Iirc, the electric indoor use the same wattage as an electric tank as well.

 

I'd have gone for one the last time we switched out but my SO didn't wanna spend the extra money.

 

Good luck.

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If I remember right, the exspansion tank is to take care of water hammer. If the tank on your electric unit split, then most likely the thermostat kept the heater/heaters on too long and the pop off didn't "pop off". We've got a 50 gal electric water here, it ain't bad, unless the power goes off for an extended time, then it's cold shower time and ya dick drawing up in ya belly, especially in the winter. I'm still working on getting a natural gas line run up here with the regulator set and then the exspense of changing out the water heater, stove and house heat.

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I took a look at the tankless, and went with a standard gas unit. Whatever you decide, I would invest a few bucks in one of these:

http://www.homedepot...larm-41623.html

I had a massive water leak and wish I would have had a heads up before the garage flooded.I also installed one in the

attic of my mother's house where her water heater resides.

 

Good luck,

Edited by yakdung
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Honestly, I would think that an electric tankless would use less electricity than the a tank which cycles on and off even if you're gone for a week.

 

Think about it though, how much electricity will it take to heat water instantly from lets say 45 degrees to 75-85 degrees??? My guess will be a heckuva lot more than it would take to maintain a 75-85 degree tank of it.

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Odd Man, where do you get 45* water out of the ground, Alaska, ours is more like 80* although we do have "city" water. Hell, I'd pipe that thru my AC coils and cool the house in the summer and the temp on our water heater is set at about 120*, I like my hot shower. :) Even in the winter, best we have is about 60*.

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"I noticed yesterday that my water heater was leaking. Upon closer inspection, I discovered that some kind of excess pressure situation had occured, as the side of the tank had swollen and had started to split at the seam. Needless to say, the unit is toast. It does beg the question though, how did it happen? There is also a temperature/pressure relief valve on the top of the tank itself that seems to be operational, (I had no problems actuating it by hand) and also an expansion tank on the cold water supply. Between the valve and the tank they should have prevented this, right?"

 

I didn't see where you stated what the toasted one was. Gas or electric? Either way, if it got hot enough to split the tank, which I tend to doubt, you should have noticed it beforehand when you turned on the water and it was hotter than Satan's piss.

 

Also, could you clarify something for me? You said the side bulged. A heater has a galvanized steel tank surrounded by insulation with a sheet steel cover. Did you remove the outer steel cover and check the tank or was this where the bulging was seen? If it was the outer cover itself then you probably just had a small leak somewhere that caused the insulation to swell and push the cover out. Not as big a concern as the actual tank itself swelling/splitting. That would be dangerous.

 

Regardless, I would also recommend staying with the conventional heater even if it may just be because I'm old fashioned. Just make sure you replace the relief valve rather than trying to reuse the old one. That could be false economy.

Edited by TacticoolTim
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Check out the marathon heater by rheem. Id guess your sacrificial magnesium anode wore out and it ate the tank. The only good tankless I installed as an apprentice was a bosch. It had a huge 8 inch exhaust that had to be straight. It sucked down gas quickly but did what it claimed. It was about as much for the install as the unit cost.

 

My marathon will loose 5 degrees if static and off all day. It has a 3/4 ball valve for dumping sediment and no anode rod since the tank is poly butine plastic. It qualifies for rebates from most every electric coop and you will notice the difference on the bill right away. It even has an antisiphon valve pre installed and comes with nipples and insulation. Made in the USA

 

This tank is the Ak of water heaters. I put dual titanium elements in it.

 

p.s. stay the fuck away from electric tankless systems... period!

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Odd Man, where do you get 45* water out of the ground, Alaska, ours is more like 80* although we do have "city" water. Hell, I'd pipe that thru my AC coils and cool the house in the summer and the temp on our water heater is set at about 120*, I like my hot shower. smile.png Even in the winter, best we have is about 60*.

 

You must get your water from a underground hot spring somewhere -- you are saying that your cold drinking water out the tap is running 80 degrees??? That sucks. The cold water out the tap here in winter will make your hands sting, it's that cold.

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Check out the marathon heater by rheem. Id guess your sacrificial magnesium anode wore out and it ate the tank. The only good tankless I installed as an apprentice was a bosch. It had a huge 8 inch exhaust that had to be straight. It sucked down gas quickly but did what it claimed. It was about as much for the install as the unit cost.

 

My marathon will loose 5 degrees if static and off all day. It has a 3/4 ball valve for dumping sediment and no anode rod since the tank is poly butine plastic. It qualifies for rebates from most every electric coop and you will notice the difference on the bill right away. It even has an antisiphon valve pre installed and comes with nipples and insulation. Made in the USA

 

This tank is the Ak of water heaters. I put dual titanium elements in it.

 

p.s. stay the fuck away from electric tankless systems... period!

Nice. But it looks like it only comes in an electric only version.

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Check out the marathon heater by rheem. Id guess your sacrificial magnesium anode wore out and it ate the tank. The only good tankless I installed as an apprentice was a bosch. It had a huge 8 inch exhaust that had to be straight. It sucked down gas quickly but did what it claimed. It was about as much for the install as the unit cost.

 

My marathon will loose 5 degrees if static and off all day. It has a 3/4 ball valve for dumping sediment and no anode rod since the tank is poly butine plastic. It qualifies for rebates from most every electric coop and you will notice the difference on the bill right away. It even has an antisiphon valve pre installed and comes with nipples and insulation. Made in the USA

 

This tank is the Ak of water heaters. I put dual titanium elements in it.

 

p.s. stay the fuck away from electric tankless systems... period!

Nice. But it looks like it only comes in an electric only version.

 

It comes as a shell for solar or boiler storage as well. The electric marathon blows gas heaters away when it comes to cost, install and monthly bills.

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OddMan,

No underground hot spring, just "city" water. I tested 3 vacuum pumps here at the shop last week and thermometer on water line feeding the sysytem was reading 82* straight out the faucet. Coolest it ever was, was 78*.

 

Good lord! You must be some place tropical. Hope you don't pay for that crap! That's a very high source temperature for municipal water. I would hate to see the chlorine, bromine and fluoride levels of that water!

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My 2 cents: These units have come a long way recently. I had a Navien tankless gas water heater installed about a year ago after my typical electric water heater was deemed inadequate for my needs. One reason was because of its ability to provide unlimited hot water to multiple faucets simultaneously: We host a lot of guests and the ability to not run out of hot water was needed. We also have a nice sized tub that our original water heater could not even fill without running out of hot water to the rest of the house. Another reason was expected electricity savings by not having to heat and maintain water temp until it was needed. Another reason was a tax refund available at that time (not sure if that is still the case) and my existing hot water heater was under warranty so I could recoup some money from it. Before installing I had a licensed and insured Navien installer check my gas valve to make sure it would handle the tankless water heater's gas demand. He also checked my house's water pressure to see how many faucets would run simultaneously. Finally he verified I had physical space and venting access outside to install it under the house (which was my preference). All checked out. The model I had installed has a circulating pump so hot water is always only a few seconds away (I live in a house that would take several minutes to get hot water to the master bathroom). It also has a small "buffer" hot water tank to keep water consistently warm\hot if you adjust your water after starting it. It has stainless steel parts, modular for repair purposes, and has a 10 year warranty on certain parts. To date based on our usage, my electric bill dropped about 30%, however my propane bill went up which reduces this saving. We do not run out of hot water, and we can have 3 faucets running (i.e. showers) with adequate hot water to each. I do notice it takes more to heat the water during the winter - so maybe only 2 faucets simultaneously but haven't noticed a significant change to propane cost during this time. The propane heater also makes more noise than my original electric heater, but this hasn't kept anyone awake at night. Since it is under the house it should be a consideration though. I have not had to do any maintenance except for the time the pilot went out and had to be relit (easy fix). I would do it again because of the benefits it gives my household, but I would not do it if I was only looking for cost savings because it would take longer than the warranty to recoup my initial investment. Hope this helps with your decision.

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My 2 cents: These units have come a long way recently. I had a Navien tankless gas water heater installed about a year ago after my typical electric water heater was deemed inadequate for my needs. One reason was because of its ability to provide unlimited hot water to multiple faucets simultaneously: We host a lot of guests and the ability to not run out of hot water was needed. We also have a nice sized tub that our original water heater could not even fill without running out of hot water to the rest of the house. Another reason was expected electricity savings by not having to heat and maintain water temp until it was needed. Another reason was a tax refund available at that time (not sure if that is still the case) and my existing hot water heater was under warranty so I could recoup some money from it. Before installing I had a licensed and insured Navien installer check my gas valve to make sure it would handle the tankless water heater's gas demand. He also checked my house's water pressure to see how many faucets would run simultaneously. Finally he verified I had physical space and venting access outside to install it under the house (which was my preference). All checked out. The model I had installed has a circulating pump so hot water is always only a few seconds away (I live in a house that would take several minutes to get hot water to the master bathroom). It also has a small "buffer" hot water tank to keep water consistently warm\hot if you adjust your water after starting it. It has stainless steel parts, modular for repair purposes, and has a 10 year warranty on certain parts. To date based on our usage, my electric bill dropped about 30%, however my propane bill went up which reduces this saving. We do not run out of hot water, and we can have 3 faucets running (i.e. showers) with adequate hot water to each. I do notice it takes more to heat the water during the winter - so maybe only 2 faucets simultaneously but haven't noticed a significant change to propane cost during this time. The propane heater also makes more noise than my original electric heater, but this hasn't kept anyone awake at night. Since it is under the house it should be a consideration though. I have not had to do any maintenance except for the time the pilot went out and had to be relit (easy fix). I would do it again because of the benefits it gives my household, but I would not do it if I was only looking for cost savings because it would take longer than the warranty to recoup my initial investment. Hope this helps with your decision.

 

I have installed systems like this in million dollar homes. The main reason was to easily fill a 3/4 grohe head filling a 400 gallon master bath. It was cheaper than a real boiler system but not by much. The rebates made it more attractive compared to a boiler system. Other makers are just now catching up to the Bosch. It's nothing new as far as technology. They are very common in europe.

 

The only reason I didn't do this to my own home was simply cost. It cost money to crank that burner up on demand, it cost a lot of money for electric kickers on a long stretch at every faucet. The circulating system is more materials and a good pump is extremely expensive. It would have been fun to install such a complex system but it simply was a very costly way to get what we needed. Perhaps some day I will build a home with a real boiler room. A lot of clients we had wanted their own mechanical room which was most often next to the vault! :) Big boy toys!

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Check out the marathon heater by rheem. Id guess your sacrificial magnesium anode wore out and it ate the tank. The only good tankless I installed as an apprentice was a bosch. It had a huge 8 inch exhaust that had to be straight. It sucked down gas quickly but did what it claimed. It was about as much for the install as the unit cost.

 

My marathon will loose 5 degrees if static and off all day. It has a 3/4 ball valve for dumping sediment and no anode rod since the tank is poly butine plastic. It qualifies for rebates from most every electric coop and you will notice the difference on the bill right away. It even has an antisiphon valve pre installed and comes with nipples and insulation. Made in the USA

 

This tank is the Ak of water heaters. I put dual titanium elements in it.

 

p.s. stay the fuck away from electric tankless systems... period!

Nice. But it looks like it only comes in an electric only version.

 

It comes as a shell for solar or boiler storage as well. The electric marathon blows gas heaters away when it comes to cost, install and monthly bills.

 

How much better than LP? or say a standard elec hot water?

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Went with a Bosch propane unit for farm house 4 years ago. Paid about $200 more than standard at that time, another $100 to retro fit duct and water lines. When 1st put in was gone for up to 6 weeks at a time., Now, still out up to 2 weeks Will put one in town (daughter-laws residence) next time standard heater goes out. like the instant hot water and have had up to 8 people shower back to back. 25 year warranty. The new style ignition system have doubled the cost of tank style units that use gas source. Put an individual (battery ignition) in a 6x6 off road camper 2 years ago. Price of that unit was within $50 of camper style electric or propane tank style.

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Check out the marathon heater by rheem. Id guess your sacrificial magnesium anode wore out and it ate the tank. The only good tankless I installed as an apprentice was a bosch. It had a huge 8 inch exhaust that had to be straight. It sucked down gas quickly but did what it claimed. It was about as much for the install as the unit cost.

 

My marathon will loose 5 degrees if static and off all day. It has a 3/4 ball valve for dumping sediment and no anode rod since the tank is poly butine plastic. It qualifies for rebates from most every electric coop and you will notice the difference on the bill right away. It even has an antisiphon valve pre installed and comes with nipples and insulation. Made in the USA

 

This tank is the Ak of water heaters. I put dual titanium elements in it.

 

p.s. stay the fuck away from electric tankless systems... period!

Nice. But it looks like it only comes in an electric only version.

 

It comes as a shell for solar or boiler storage as well. The electric marathon blows gas heaters away when it comes to cost, install and monthly bills.

It all depends on the cost in your area, but you can expect to conserve more energy with it as the thermal transfer is more efficient with electric than gas, it has better insulation than every gas and elec tank and will also be much less maintenance. Go for the optional ball valve for cleaning out sediment. Go for the dual titanium elements if you have hard water. Since i live in a cold climate, I saved 30 bucks a month compared to a well maintained glass lined AO smith electric. Got 15 years out of it before it leaked on the anode rod threads. Gas tank heaters piss away too much energy. If you must have gas, get a real boiler!

 

 

How much better than LP? or say a standard elec hot water?

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p.s. new water heaters arent made like the old ones that would run 20 years. New tanks will last exactly five years and 12 seconds from the time of installation. Should get 20 out of the marathon. Only thing i dont like about it is the proprietary heating elements. They a.re different because of the lack of an anode and conductive tank. Home depot delivered it to my door with the best price around. Check your elec. company. They may have incentives for installing it. My coop gave me a 75 dollar credit.

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