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Picked up an S223 on trade.


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I would stay away from the Dremel for the LHG cut - too easy to fuck it up. It will take an hour or two to do using the right hand file, and will look like a factory job. Go pick up a decent jeweler's file set, it will have what you need. Find the file that fits the profile of the cut on another standard AK that you have.

 

Just do it a little bit at a time, slipping the retainer into place once in a while. Eventually the cam will start to turn in a small amount at a time. It doesn't take much overfiling to end up with a floppy/loose one.

 

Yeah I lucked out on the timing & prices on my conversion. Now the .223 is sometimes not able to be found at all.

Edited by mancat
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yeah after thinking about it, i came to the conclusion that the dremel will not be used. wheres the best place to find a jewelers file set? never had to look for a set of these so have to ask.

 

and i have another AK i can use for a reference.

 

another question, should i even dick with bead blasting it, or shoud i just strip it myself? any pros and cons? im thinking it will be the same end result. but correct me if im wrong.
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Home Depot or Lowe's, etc. The set I have is this one, which included a file that worked fine:

 

http://www.homedepot...catalogId=10053

 

As for blasting it, it depends on what sort of coating you use. I painted mine using the infamous Duplicolor ceramic enamel, which specifies it can be applied over another existing base coat of enamel (Saiga factory paint is an enamel) or directly to metal. I hit mine liberally with a can of brake cleaner (plugged chamber, barrel, and gas block first), which took off almost all of the factory finish - not down to the bare metal, but it was enough that most of the pigment was gone, leaving just a thin film of the factory coating.

 

Duracote, Gunkote, etc. may specify a base of bare metal, and you may need to have the gun blasted to get there.

 

As mentioned often, Duplicolor DE1634 is very close to the factory shade. I used Duplicolor DE1635, actually, which is just one step up in gloss from DE1634. It turned out slightly more glossy than I would have liked. The finish has held up very well, but does have a few scratches and nicks here and there from normal use. I am not one to care if an AK gets scuffed up, because I love the look of a well-worn European military AK. Duplicolor holds up fine to CLP, Hoppe's #9, but I would not expect it to stand up to stronger ammonia-based solvents or brake cleaner/Gunscrubber.

 

Spray it in light coats to get a powdercoating texture effect that is similar to the factory finish. After letting it set cure for a day, I baked mine in the oven at 200F for several hours. Also I would suggest that you be light on the paint on the FSB threads, or cover the threads with teflon tape, etc. I forgot to do this, and it was a huge pain in the ass to get the brake off after the first test-firing.

 

7JjIu.jpg

Edited by mancat
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thanks for the info mancat. i plan on doing mine in duracoat flat dark earth. i was wanting to take it down to the bare metal if possible. maybe give me best results. and yes i planned on covering the threads all together as shooting the 5.45, the brake gets almost glued on from crud.

 

and i use CLP on all my guns so its nice to know that the duplicolor holds up good against it for future reference.

 

youve been a good and encouraging help to me mancat, thank you for that. since this is the first .223 ill be doing, i appreciate the info.

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P.S. if you can find a way to satisfy your 922r parts count and use either the factory hammer or a Bulgarian AK-74 hammer, I would suggest it. The Tapco G2 hammer has three problems in a converted Saiga: 1) (this is .223 specific) the G2 hammer face is rounded and does not match the geometry of the .223 bolt, which has a slightly longer tail - as a result, the hammer can peen the tail face of the bolt. A Russian or Bulgarian hammer has a flat face that will strike true on the tail of the .223 bolt. As far as I can tell, this is a cosmetic issue, since the firing pin will always protrude even if the bolt tail becomes peened; 2) the G2 hammer has a small shelf on the underside that is designed to contact the receiver and prevent overtravel, but if used in combination with a bolt-on Saiga trigger guard, most of which use the small hole on the underside of the receiver to bolt on, this "shelf" on the bottom of the G2 hammer will contact the bolt head, thereby limiting its downward travel, and potentially preventing it from engaging the disconnector properly during the reset cycle; 3) the G2 hammer (or Bulgarian AK-74 hammer) cannot be used with the factory BHO without modification. Obviously the factory hammer is OK to re-use with the BHO. I tried the rifle for a bit with the BHO and got annoyed by it, so it's gone.

 

Using a Russian/Bulgarian hammer also makes the bolt carrier action much, much smoother. This is due to the massive "hump" of the G2 hammer face which the carrier rides on. The G2 FCG is great, but Tapco really has some unresolved issues that continue on to this day.

 

One easy 922r part is Arsenal or Tapco mag floorplates. They will work on all Bulgarian Circle-10 or Polish Beryl magazines. I believe that Galil steel magazines can also be made to use most AR-15 magazine parts, but as I've mentioned a lot here, the Galil steels do not match the geometry of newer Saiga rifles all that well. I stopped using mine.

Edited by mancat
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hell yeah. thats nice to know. i was going to use my factory hammer anyways, and save the g2 for a spare. its nice to know that. im actually glad you brought that up. been wondering how it was going to perform.

 

i noticed the factory hammer in my saiga has a cut-out wich appears to be for the BHO. ive never used the factory hammer so i assume it should be ok.

 

im not too worried about 922. that law blows ass nuggets.

 

i dont plan on using the BHO on this. i like the thought, but dont feel its worth it.

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yes mancat, i was aware of that, but thank you for pointing that out incase others may need to know that. and i love the avatar...

yeah, I didn't know that.

 

Didn't know about the peening issue with Tapco hammer. I've got about 1000 rounds through mine, and I had to look really close to notice any peening....top of the bolt as it sits in the rear most part of the carrier. I'm hoping all peening would have already occured. If so, it is a non-issue.

 

I've got my '74 kit on the way, but I haven't even removed the GB and FSB yet. Gonna use a cutt off wheel on a dremel unless there's a better way. Haven't had time to research lately.

 

Cpt. Hero...I don't know what you already ordered, but there is a guy on akfiles selling GB's and FSB's individually for pretty cheap

Edited by jbanzai
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i picked up a gas block from kvar yesterday. stil have to get the FSB. will have to wait til next payday for that.

 

i used a dremel w/ cut off wheel. it works pretty good. i stopped just shy of going all the way through to avoid making contact with my barrel. i cut a groove in both parts and just beat them off with a hammer. i will say this, even with the grooves cut in them, it was still kinda a pain in the ass to get the parts off with a 28oz hammer, as they are on there pretty fuckin good.

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I cut the grooves and then inserted a giant flathead screwdriver into them, put a channel lock on the screwdriver grip, and gave it one good twist. The FSB/GB goes *crack* and then they slide right off.

 

I just realized yesterday that I threw away my original FSB without taking out the sight drum/post. Oh well, I have more of those, but I like spare parts.

Edited by mancat
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just a breif update, i finally got the lower HG retainer on and its a tight fit. my measurement ended up being a tad too close to the reciever, but id rather have done it this way, and work my way forward than the other way around, and not have it work at all, or have to go deeper into the barrel or come up with some other means of retention. ill get some pics when i get more time.

 

the next one i do, im going to buy a LHG retainer, take out the cam, get it in place and take a drill bit into it following the process of pinning on a GB/FSB. then place a new one in its place and be good to go from the start. and save the "empty" retainer as a template. for future projects.

Edited by Captain Hero
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heres some more pics on what i have done so far, minus the sights.

 

103_1911.jpg

103_1909.jpg

 

 

i got the GB on and the lower handguard retainer. tight fit on both.

103_1915.jpg

 

i modded my CSS trigger guard to where i could still use a pistol grip nut and screw for the sake of the "sandwich" effect., but without being able to see where i cut the rear screw hole off that would go where the old trigger was on the saiga.

 

103_1914.jpg

Edited by Captain Hero
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

i got my FSB indexed and seated. i took some sandpaper and took the factory finish down to the bare metal on the reciever and barrel. the FSB,RSB and GB not so much. it was a bit more tricky to sand those down to the metal in so places so i just roughed them up the best i could with some course grit paper. Got it degreased and the first coat of Duracoat on it. gunna mix another batch and finish it off in the morning. ill get some more pics up soon.

Edited by Captain Hero
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Yeah I had no interest in Saigas when I knew nothing about them - just thinking that they were a permanently neutered AK - then I started browsing around here and I was like, "oh, so THAT'S what you can do with them?? Want one now."

 

Lol that totally explains how I was too !!!

 

I didn't even really realize it was an AK when I got it -- I figured it was an ak-type hunting rifle lol !!!

 

It was the best impulse buy I ever made

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well i finally got it finished. the only thing lacking is the cleaning rod. i went with an older ribbed dust cover to go with the waffle 5.56 mags that ill be using. camera is kinda old and shitty, and the weather sucks right now but here she is.

 

post-32793-0-69570100-1346689750_thumb.jpg

post-32793-0-51443100-1346689790_thumb.jpg

post-32793-0-05392600-1346689827_thumb.jpg

post-32793-0-53611000-1346689869_thumb.jpg

post-32793-0-87524100-1346690128_thumb.jpg

post-32793-0-28077500-1346690157_thumb.jpg

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thanks fellas. i know i need a cleaning rod. sad thing is i have one somewhere that will work for it, but i have no clue on where it is. and yes, until then, it unfinished!

 

and jbanzai, im glad this thread gave you some motivation. the downside for me, is now i have to wait a little while to pick up another until funds become available.

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You may already know this, but if you leave out the BHO, you will have to shim the factory hammer with a shim/washer of a width equal to the BHO lever plate.

 

If I order at "standard AK" FCG, and choose not to install the BHO, will it still need a shim? Specifically the Arsenal single stage and/or Tapco G2 both for standard AK off Dinzag.

 

Thanks

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if your hammer shifts too far over to the right side, it will be striking the bolt/firing pin with the edge of the strike face of the hammer. extended use like this might cause issues down the road with your hammer not making positive contact with the bolt stem. plus your trigger wont make positive engagement when the hammer is cocked. it will barely grab the tabs of the hammer

 

i test fired mine without the washer, but the final assembly i put it in. if your in doubt put the new hammer in without the spring or shephards crook, just the hammer pin, and see how much side to side play you have.

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You may already know this, but if you leave out the BHO, you will have to shim the factory hammer with a shim/washer of a width equal to the BHO lever plate.

 

If I order at "standard AK" FCG, and choose not to install the BHO, will it still need a shim? Specifically the Arsenal single stage and/or Tapco G2 both for standard AK off Dinzag.

 

Thanks

 

No.. You only need a shim if you choose to re-use the factory hammer, but want to leave out the BHO.

 

Only reason I would suggest using the factory hammer is that it has the correct face profile to hit the .223 bolt true and flat, and it lacks the "hump" of the G2 hammer, so the bolt runs a bit smoother. The G2 hammer can potentially peen the bolt tail a bit - not that this would really impede operation. If you have the time, you can re-profile the G2 hammer face to match the factory hammer, which would keep you one 922r part.

 

Bulgarian AK-74 hammer (probably most surplus AK-74/AKM hammers) also has the correct geometry for the .223 and does not require any shim.

Edited by mancat
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thats interesting shit mancat. the tapco hammer i have has a little play in it, but not as much as the factory hammer, and the arsenal hammer has next to zero movement. and i have a hammer coming from europe. be interesting to see the differences.

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Again, the shim is just to take up the space from the missing BHO plate. I'm sure the hammer would function fine without it, but I don't consider it safe, since the hammer can move side to side on the axis pin if it doesn't fill up the inner width of the receiver. This creates a situation where tif the hammer has enough play, it can potentially release when you don't want it to.

 

If you want to see for yourself, try installing the factory hammer by itself without any shim or without BHO lever. I bet you can rock/slide the hammer around on the axis pin enough to cause the hammer to release from the trigger hook, even on safe.. I'm not at home so I can't try it myself.

Edited by mancat
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  • 2 weeks later...

 

heres some more pics on what i have done so far, minus the sights.

 

103_1911.jpg

103_1909.jpg

 

 

i got the GB on and the lower handguard retainer. tight fit on both.

103_1915.jpg

 

i modded my CSS trigger guard to where i could still use a pistol grip nut and screw for the sake of the "sandwich" effect., but without being able to see where i cut the rear screw hole off that would go where the old trigger was on the saiga.

 

103_1914.jpg

 

Very cool! I also use the CSS billet trigger guard, but was not fond of them NOT drilling/tapping ALL the way through the guard for the grip screw. The aluminum trigger guard is VERY easy to strip and I wish CSS would thread the the pistol grip hole ALL the way through. That being said... it's a VERY nice trigger guard!

Just a note to others... if you use the "billet trigger guard" you will have to enlarge the hole for use of the Hogue grip. If you use the standard "steel band" trigger guard" you will not. Also when fitting the stock,, if you are using the billet trigger guard, you will need to file/dremel where the bolt comes through. If you use the standard "steel band" trigger guard, you will not.

Edited by Brian M1
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Well Brian, that was part of the reason why I cut mine off all together. Depending on the grip or screw, there is a chance that the screw will have to be fitted. And I didnt want to have to modify my grip screw. I like the look of the guard, but I felt better about removing the ass end of it and using a screw and nut for my grip. YMMV.

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