defcon 21 Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Finally finished my first AR15. I was going for a Riflegear midlength upper but I got a good deal for a PSA upper that just came in. I need to clean and lube it up for the range next weekend. I've never shot an AR15 before so I'm excited. I won't be buying optics anytime soon so I'm excited to learn how to shoot with iron sights. It's just for paper targets only. I still need to save up for a ARMS rear BUIS. PSA Complete upper 16" carbine Spikes Lower (Spider) BCM BCG BCM C/H Mod 4 Magwell grip CASV clone Raddlock button Magpul AFG MOE stock Cheeck Riser DPMS LPK DPMS buffer tube PMAG 10/30 _MG_2386 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2384 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2380 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2381 by defconskylude, on Flickr 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Nice rifles! What are you going to do for a rear sight? A standard A2 sight works great and there are cheap manuals on how to use it properly from uncle sam. If you have never shot an ar before, the biggest helper for me was getting a reference alignment. You want your head straight up and down with the rifle. Put your nose on the charging handle and back it off about a half inch. That's where your head should be every time. If you focus on your front sight post and then the target, you will get a ghost ring from the A2 sight. Make sure the ghost ring illusion is centered in the middle of the circle. It will happen every time with a good reference alignment. Trigger pull is important on that rifle as well. We would practice for hours with a balanced dime on the barrel. Dry fire it and if the dime fell off, you failed! Have fun! You are going to like the accuracy of the 5.56nato! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
defcon 21 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 ive never shot an AR15 nor a 5.56 caliber before. i bought a troy rear sight. should come in this week. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I put my nose on the charging handle every time to stay consistent. Nice job on the build. ETA: Some people get a really weird cheek weld and head alignment with an AR. Looks like a monkey doing Chinese math. Do what Stryker suggests and you will make hits on the target. Dry fire the little bitch a lot. Most Military units dry fire more than live fire even though they actually shoot a metric shit ton of ammo monthly. Edited June 26, 2012 by MT Predator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Big recommendation for dry-fire practice here. I also recommend handling the weapon quite a bit. You want to develop good muscle memory so that you end up shouldering the weapon the same every time. This isn't just advice for the AR-15 platform either... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'm an AR and S12 guy....please take that grip off your mag well lol. You shouldn't put your support hand that close to the active fire hand. You won't have good control over your muzzle and front site post. Use the angled fore grip and cup it with your fingers completing the grip with your thumb on the side of the fore arm. Also you can point your thumb or index finger at the Target. It will help for quick transition and acquisition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Also it looks like a Vltor rail and it doesn't have enough space left on your upper were the rear site SHOULD go. I guess you can put it up on the top rail as far back as you can but then you will have a slightly shorter site radius and with it being so much higher will you have enough thread length in you front site to adjust just to attain zero? I may be wrong on all this and if I am I'm sorry you had to read my rant lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedChallenger 149 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Palmetto State Armory is a awesome company. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 What is a Raddlock button and Magpul 10/30 mag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Those are Cali compliant parts if I remember correctly. Also, I heard that PSA uses FN barrels in their uppers... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Always remember the first time (don't we all?) with the AR platform. I was so new to firearms that I had no clue as to recoil and was a bit fearful of putting my head right on the stock for a good cheekweld (stupid I know but...). The Drill Instructor put the 16 on his crotch, put it on rock and roll and lit it up = fear gone! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Always remember the first time (don't we all?) with the AR platform. I was so new to firearms that I had no clue as to recoil and was a bit fearful of putting my head right on the stock for a good cheekweld (stupid I know but...). The Drill Instructor put the 16 on his crotch, put it on rock and roll and lit it up = fear gone! My drill did that too lol.....they might do that for all basic training cycles to show the girls and guys with no firearms experience that its nothing to be afraid of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kylsix 2 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Take that monolithic riser off unless you plan on using an EOTech or other CCO and need higher eye relief. I would have suggested the Magpul rear peep sight over the Troy, simply because of preference, but the Troy will work fine. The basics of shooting an AR are easy, but since you jumped into a tactical AR, a lot of the traditional training most people have on their M16s goes to crap. Your sight picture and length of sight will be vastly different and less accurate than a full length M16/AR. Iron sights on shorter gas tube rifles like that one are nothing more than backup sights. I would get a good optic, a decent one can be had for the $150-$200 range, and learn to shoot with that. If you discipline yourself on those shorter iron sights, you won't maximize the potential of the rifle. On the subject of the magwell hand grip, if you like it, keep it. A lot of guys like to put their front hand there when clearing buildings or moving through other tight quarters. Ultimately, though, it depends on your preference and intended use of the rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Asmodeus 13 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Also it looks like a Vltor rail and it doesn't have enough space left on your upper were the rear site SHOULD go. I guess you can put it up on the top rail as far back as you can but then you will have a slightly shorter site radius and with it being so much higher will you have enough thread length in you front site to adjust just to attain zero? I may be wrong on all this and if I am I'm sorry you had to read my rant lol I'm looking from my phone, but it looks like there is ONE rail section left at the rear, and the upper charging handle area is clear to lay the sight down. I'm sure this is how vltor designed the rail system, to allow for a rear sight. The million $ question is which rear sight? I'm sure some will fit there but not all. In the end I agree about the rail system. It was a bad choice for someone new to the platform, as its going to change a few inherent dynamics with the rifle that didn't need to be changed. You don't even need a raised continuous platform for most optics these days anyway. All the good ones are built to run on the upper at its natural height AND work with the irons. And there are a variety of mounts that are available or come with them that allow for adjustment in height. Not my choice for a rail. The only thing it has going for it is that it probably is more sturdy than the cheapy drop in ones. But even like a yhm etc would have been a better choice as it would free float the barrel too. Secondly is the cheek riser. That will bring you up to your raised sight plane. But shit gets in the way of the charging handle is bad juju. On a target only rifle... it doesn't matter. But if it were ever going to be considered for anything else. I'd take all that shit off and just leave the front sight and a buis. Optic on the upper receiver. You created a few liabilities in your mods that are just - unnacceptable for a 'work' gun. Not hatin' just trying to put some light on areas that might be potential issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
defcon 21 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I put my nose on the charging handle every time to stay consistent. Nice job on the build. ETA: Some people get a really weird cheek weld and head alignment with an AR. Looks like a monkey doing Chinese math. Do what Stryker suggests and you will make hits on the target. Dry fire the little bitch a lot. Most Military units dry fire more than live fire even though they actually shoot a metric shit ton of ammo monthly. can you do any damage internally when you dry firing repeatedly? i read its bad to dry fire with rimfire rifles since it can damage the firing pin. not sure about centerfire. I'm an AR and S12 guy....please take that grip off your mag well lol. You shouldn't put your support hand that close to the active fire hand. You won't have good control over your muzzle and front site post. Use the angled fore grip and cup it with your fingers completing the grip with your thumb on the side of the fore arm. Also you can point your thumb or index finger at the Target. It will help for quick transition and acquisition. i see what youre saying. ive seen pictures and vids of people using the AFG and handguard based on how you explained it. i was gonna use the magwell grip when i shoot with a .22 CMMG conversion kit. i just like how the way it feels. Also it looks like a Vltor rail and it doesn't have enough space left on your upper were the rear site SHOULD go. I guess you can put it up on the top rail as far back as you can but then you will have a slightly shorter site radius and with it being so much higher will you have enough thread length in you front site to adjust just to attain zero? I may be wrong on all this and if I am I'm sorry you had to read my rant lol there's one slot left for an ARMS 40L or a Troy rear sight. What is a Raddlock button and Magpul 10/30 mag? Raddlock button is a bullet button that makes our magazines fixed. The only way to release the magazine is through a use of tool or the tip of a bullet. this allows us to have evil features like a pistol grip, collapsible stock, forward grips, etc. california is limited to 10 rounds max per magazine. so a 10/30 means theres 10 rounds in a 30 round mag capacity. there's a block inside so you can hold more than 10 rounds. Those are Cali compliant parts if I remember correctly. Also, I heard that PSA uses FN barrels in their uppers... correct. the FN barrels are uppers that are hammer forged. the one i have isnt hammer forged and its made by Wilson Arms. Take that monolithic riser off unless you plan on using an EOTech or other CCO and need higher eye relief. I would have suggested the Magpul rear peep sight over the Troy, simply because of preference, but the Troy will work fine. The basics of shooting an AR are easy, but since you jumped into a tactical AR, a lot of the traditional training most people have on their M16s goes to crap. Your sight picture and length of sight will be vastly different and less accurate than a full length M16/AR. Iron sights on shorter gas tube rifles like that one are nothing more than backup sights. I would get a good optic, a decent one can be had for the $150-$200 range, and learn to shoot with that. If you discipline yourself on those shorter iron sights, you won't maximize the potential of the rifle. On the subject of the magwell hand grip, if you like it, keep it. A lot of guys like to put their front hand there when clearing buildings or moving through other tight quarters. Ultimately, though, it depends on your preference and intended use of the rifle. im saving up for a used EOTECH. there's no room for a magpul rear sight with this rail system. i like the magwell grip a lot. ive been told not to really use it when shooting .223 due to possible kabooms and damaging my hand when the magazine blows out underneath. ill be using the magwell grip when i shoot .22's. its just paper targets. nothing else. Edited June 26, 2012 by defcon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
defcon 21 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Also it looks like a Vltor rail and it doesn't have enough space left on your upper were the rear site SHOULD go. I guess you can put it up on the top rail as far back as you can but then you will have a slightly shorter site radius and with it being so much higher will you have enough thread length in you front site to adjust just to attain zero? I may be wrong on all this and if I am I'm sorry you had to read my rant lol I'm looking from my phone, but it looks like there is ONE rail section left at the rear, and the upper charging handle area is clear to lay the sight down. I'm sure this is how vltor designed the rail system, to allow for a rear sight. The million $ question is which rear sight? I'm sure some will fit there but not all. In the end I agree about the rail system. It was a bad choice for someone new to the platform, as its going to change a few inherent dynamics with the rifle that didn't need to be changed. You don't even need a raised continuous platform for most optics these days anyway. All the good ones are built to run on the upper at its natural height AND work with the irons. And there are a variety of mounts that are available or come with them that allow for adjustment in height. Not my choice for a rail. The only thing it has going for it is that it probably is more sturdy than the cheapy drop in ones. But even like a yhm etc would have been a better choice as it would free float the barrel too. Secondly is the cheek riser. That will bring you up to your raised sight plane. But shit gets in the way of the charging handle is bad juju. On a target only rifle... it doesn't matter. But if it were ever going to be considered for anything else. I'd take all that shit off and just leave the front sight and a buis. Optic on the upper receiver. You created a few liabilities in your mods that are just - unnacceptable for a 'work' gun. Not hatin' just trying to put some light on areas that might be potential issues. ive researched the rear sights and it comes down to a ARMS 40L, MI rear sight, and a Troy sight. my troy sight is coming in a few days. yea ill be taking off the cheek rest. the charging handle does clear the cheek rest when its fully extended. i went with the CASV rail system because it looks really good. i took off the side rails. ill post new pics in a few days Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Most modern weapons can be dry fired without any ill effect, especially weapons designed for military use. Dry fire away! I have a couple of the FN marked PSA CHF barrels and they are impressive. The smallest 100 yard 5 shot group that I have achieved with my 12.5" PSA was 0.300". I was using Black Hills 69gr MatchKing. I have Noveske and Centurion Arms CHF barrels too. They are all internally the same barrel. A friend of mine just bought one of the 14.7" non-CHF PSAs and I am curious as to how well it will shoot at distance. OP, Your tastes will get simpler over time. Less is indeed more. That being said, you should have seen my first build.... it was ridiculous. Edited June 27, 2012 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Keep in mind, many Kabooms in the AR platform follow the path of least resistance through the mag well and magazine. It's up to you if you want your hand there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Asmodeus 13 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 ive researched the rear sights and it comes down to a ARMS 40L, MI rear sight, and a Troy sight. my troy sight is coming in a few days. yea ill be taking off the cheek rest. the charging handle does clear the cheek rest when its fully extended. i went with the CASV rail system because it looks really good. i took off the side rails. ill post new pics in a few days Someone makes a reciprocating cheek riser for a stock. I can't remember who it is. But it allows the CH to "pull through" the rest. Might want to look into that. If you really want one. I think we all put a ton of crap on our first rifle. In the end you'll find the lightest simplest options work best. I have a 7" in 7.62x39. And it has some junk on it. But the weight at that point is still so centered... it doesn't matter as much. Push the same weight out on front of a 16" gun and it gets slower than I like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedChallenger 149 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 ive researched the rear sights and it comes down to a ARMS 40L, MI rear sight, and a Troy sight. my troy sight is coming in a few days. yea ill be taking off the cheek rest. the charging handle does clear the cheek rest when its fully extended. i went with the CASV rail system because it looks really good. i took off the side rails. ill post new pics in a few days Someone makes a reciprocating cheek riser for a stock. I can't remember who it is. But it allows the CH to "pull through" the rest. Might want to look into that. If you really want one. That would be "LaRue". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 OP, Your tastes will get simpler over time. Less is indeed more. That being said, you should have seen my first build.... it was ridiculous. LOL, Yeah thats how it goes! I remember when I got my first AK and proceeded to completely Tapco-Fuck it! What was I thinking?!?! It now has the proper Russian red laminate. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 OP, Your tastes will get simpler over time. Less is indeed more. That being said, you should have seen my first build.... it was ridiculous. LOL, Yeah thats how it goes! I remember when I got my first AK and proceeded to completely Tapco-Fuck it! What was I thinking?!?! It now has the proper Russian red laminate. I almost want to post a pic of it the first AR that I did anything to, but damn..... I can't help but laugh at it when I see the pic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Asmodeus 13 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Here's some inspiration for the "bloody effin' simple" AR. Light. Sling. Sights. Weighs like 7# Max. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Here's some inspiration for the "bloody effin' simple" AR. Light. Sling. Sights. Weighs like 7# Max. Looks like mine... I figured, why go with carbon fiber to save weight and then throw a bunch of junk on it? Everything you need (including a spare firing pin), nothing you don't... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
defcon 21 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Cleaned it up. Added a troy rear sight Removed the magwell grip, cheek rest, and side rails I'm ready for the range! _MG_2837 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2838 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2839 by defconskylude, on Flickr 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Very good. Chunk a little dot on there and you are GTG. I have some Aimpoints, but a friend of mine has a Bushnell TRS-25 and the dot rivals my T-1's dot (It can't fuck with the dot in my Comp ML3 though ). Not sure about durability on the TRS-25 or it's battery life, but I could have bought 6 or 7 TRS-25s and a lot of batteries for what I paid for the T-1. Get a quality mount for whatever you get, assuming it needs one. Did you get the Troy DOA rear? I use those with M4 sights and the sight picture is amazing compared to a ghost ring. The one with the Tritium insert doesn't quite look as good because of the dots, but I hope to never need them. My "Desert Island" aftermarket item for the AR, if I could only have one, would be a Geissele SD3G. Whatever you want to use that AR for, they have a trigger specifically suited to that purpose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kylsix 2 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) im saving up for a used EOTECH. there's no room for a magpul rear sight with this rail system. i like the magwell grip a lot. ive been told not to really use it when shooting .223 due to possible kabooms and damaging my hand when the magazine blows out underneath. ill be using the magwell grip when i shoot .22's. its just paper targets. nothing else. That rail on the top can be removed, it's just attacked by screws through the M1913 rail on the upper receiver and the top of the handguard. Your upper receiver is a flat top and your quad rail handguard is on the A2 style delta ring. The top rail you have just connects the two, giving you a monolithic option that is much higher off the bore, which is much less accurate and will cause issues with distance markers on ACOGs, MILDOT scopes, or any other optic that has different aiming points for different ranges. If you take off that piece, you have a lot more options for iron sights and optics. Unless you prefer to have your CCO (EOTech) right above the delta ring, or really like the sight line from the higher rail, there is no reason to have it. I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds of 5.56x45, both in the Army and as a civilian, never have I seen there be a problem with holding the weapon by the magwell. The circumstances necessary for a round to discharge before being chambered are extraordinary, and I have never personally seen it nor heard of that until I read this thread. Short of total catastrophic failure, I don't see that ever being an issue. Many military and police personnel will hold the weapon there in close quarters, because it allows you to keep a smaller and more square profile, allows greater maneuverability and allows for quick transition to a stance for more accurate fire. Some guys are just comfortable holding their weapon there. It all comes down to preference, and as someone with a lot of experience with firearms, never once has the magazine being blown out ever even been a remote concern. Edited June 28, 2012 by Kylsix Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Finally finished my first AR15. I was going for a Riflegear midlength upper but I got a good deal for a PSA upper that just came in. I need to clean and lube it up for the range next weekend. I've never shot an AR15 before so I'm excited. I won't be buying optics anytime soon so I'm excited to learn how to shoot with iron sights. It's just for paper targets only. I still need to save up for a ARMS rear BUIS. PSA Complete upper 16" carbine Spikes Lower (Spider) BCM BCG BCM C/H Mod 4 Magwell grip CASV clone Raddlock button Magpul AFG MOE stock Cheeck Riser DPMS LPK DPMS buffer tube PMAG 10/30 _MG_2386 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2384 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2380 by defconskylude, on Flickr _MG_2381 by defconskylude, on Flickr You should post a pic of your S12 here http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/44199-show-me-your-chaos-mounted-rails/ it looks great! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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