ATF rules there are 14 922r parts on the AKDAL

[TonyRumore 1,332]

This parts count ruling is nuts......but here it is. Plan on it being revised in subsequent letters............Posted on www.gunsumerreports.com

 

Guess it's OK to AOW the ADKAL, since it isn't imported with a stock.

 

Tony

 

P.S. And please....lets not get into all the hand wringing over the letter "is only good for the guy that wrote it", "it's not worth the paper it's written on"......blah, blah, blah. If you want to talk about that shit again, start another thread.

 

[jgillaspy 24]

Hey Tony,

 

Have you ever seen an imported, "non-sporting" firearm where the receiver, stock and PG were one unit? Perhaps this is why the BATFE ruled there was no stock to count. If that is so, then when we modify the firearm to accept a replaceable stock and PG do we add 2 countable parts (only to remove them by using US-made parts)? I realize that by using US-made parts we take them back out of the equation, but that leaves us back with 14 countable parts. Below I have compared the TROMIX parts and the Firebird Precision parts as far as parts count goes:

 

Part TROMIX Firebird

 

Gas Piston X X

Trigger X X

Hammer X

Disconnector X X

Handguard X

Mag body X*

Mag follower X*

Mag floorplate X X

 

I purposely left off the PG / Stock since we added those parts and created countable parts as if we added a foreign-made barrel extension on a Saiga. So going only with TROMIX parts you can make a 922 ®-compliant Akdal MKA-1919. Firebird gives you a few more options, but their FCG requires you to send your receiver to them.

 

* Note that since Firebird uses Akdal mag bodies and followers and adds on an adapter I suspect that those original parts (2-shell mags) will still count even though we add a US-made adapter.

 

Tony, I know you have suspended production and development, but a hammer would really simplify matters here and make an all-TROMIX solution for 922® compliance very simple at this point and waiting on the magazines would be less painful.

 

jgillaspy

[Syndicate 812]

So in layman's terms?

 

I am getting a Firebird charge handle and mag release button, hammer stock (tubes adapters etc), the ergo grip (adapter etc), trigger set, and was on the fence about the piston.

 

This is new to me so you can treat me as ignorant, the more I read the more confusing (it could be that it's not that confusing and what I'm doing at work which is complicated is making my brain hurt already)

 

How worried do I need to be about all this?

[jgillaspy 24]

So in layman's terms?

 

I am getting a Firebird charge handle and mag release button, hammer stock (tubes adapters etc), the ergo grip (adapter etc), trigger set, and was on the fence about the piston.

 

This is new to me so you can treat me as ignorant, the more I read the more confusing (it could be that it's not that confusing and what I'm doing at work which is complicated is making my brain hurt already)

 

How worried do I need to be about all this?

 

Understand that this game is about removing (replacing) counted parts, not just adding US-made parts. If the part isn't on the list it doesn't count. If it is on the list, then removing the foreign-made (replacing it) counts and you subtract parts with the goal being to wind up with 10 or less COUNTABLE parts on the firearm.

 

In the case of the MKA-1919 (according to the above letter) we start with 14 countable parts:

 

Receiver

Barrel

Trunnion

Bolt

Bolt Carrier

Op rod

Gas Piston * (TROMIX only)

Trigger *

Hammer * (Firebird only)

Disconnector *

Handguard * (Firebird only)

Mag Body

Mag Follower

Mag Floorplate * (TROMIX only)

 

Of those the ones with * have US-made counterparts. Realize the NO OTHER PARTS MATTER FOR 922 ® compliance. Bear in mind that as soon as you modify the receiver to accept a removable PG and / or stock you INCREASE your countable parts by 1 or 2. If you replace them with US-made parts they are a wash, since they don't count right now. Also note that the Firebird Precision mag adapters still use foreign-made bodies and follows, so they can't be used for compliance.

 

So, you can build a fully 922®-compliant firearm right now and even be to the good a piece or 2.

 

As for your last question, I've only ever heard of someone being charged under 922® when they were assembling firearms and selling them in a non-compliant form. They were also being busted for multiple FFL failings, so the charge was more of a "piling on" thing. Just remember blatant disregard for the law will eventually bite you!

 

Hope this helps,

 

jgillaspy

[Syndicate 812]

Ok that makes much more sense the the explanation I had been given before. Thanks a lot man

 

I had been told the trigger set counts as true, does that still hold true under the new list? (I asked before this came out)

 

Trigger, gas piston and the mag floor plate, and I am at 10

 

And no I don't want to blatently disregard the law which is why I am making sure to ask questions (I know you didn't imply that) not because my intent is to just give the figurative middle finger to the ATF/gubment.

[jgillaspy 24]

Ok that makes much more sense the the explanation I had been given before. Thanks a lot man

 

I had been told the trigger set counts as true, does that still hold true under the new list? (I asked before this came out)

 

Trigger, gas piston and the mag floor plate, and I am at 10

 

And no I don't want to blatently disregard the law which is why I am making sure to ask questions (I know you didn't imply that) not because my intent is to just give the figurative middle finger to the ATF/gubment.

 

The trigger "set" (commonly referred to as the Fire Control Group) usually consists of the hammer, trigger, disconnector and/or sear (if applicable). Firebird has the complete FCG, but they require you send them your lower, which can be a royal PITA depending on who you get at USPS, UPS or FedEx since that is considered the "firearm" and must go to an FFL. The TROMIX parts are true "drop in", but you still use the factory (counted) hammer.

 

So, trigger, disconnector, gas piston and the mag floor plate, and you are at 10, or full FCG from Firebird and the TROMIX gas piston. That way you don't have to worry about the magazines and can buy what you want. I just hope Tony makes a hammer...

 

The only reason I mentioned the disregard thing is because there have been more than a few threads the got rather ugly on that topic. I was trying to head it off if someone else decided to join the discussion.

 

jgillaspy

[Syndicate 812]

 

The only reason I mentioned the disregard thing is because there have been more than a few threads the got rather ugly on that topic. I was trying to head it off if someone else decided to join the discussion.

 

jgillaspy

 

Understood, def not looking to stir a hornets nest.

Well all that said, I'm going to add a sight and just enjoy it for the time being. Maybe just add a stock that balences the weapon a little better.

I am sure glad I didn't just start ordering a bunch of stuff. BTW this forum rocks

[jgillaspy 24]

The only reason I mentioned the disregard thing is because there have been more than a few threads the got rather ugly on that topic. I was trying to head it off if someone else decided to join the discussion.

 

jgillaspy

 

Understood, def not looking to stir a hornets nest.

Well all that said, I'm going to add a sight and just enjoy it for the time being. Maybe just add a stock that balences the weapon a little better.

I am sure glad I didn't just start ordering a bunch of stuff. BTW this forum rocks

 

Keep in mind that if you add an adjustable / folding stock you must comply with 922 ®, since it's a "non-sporting" feature. Yes, it sux...

 

jgillaspy

[gunfun 3,931]

Thanks for the info Tony.

 

Guys, I am pretty sure that Tromix had posted a while ago about having FCG in development, sold only as a complete package. If that is still in the works you will have two choices, and one which will not require you to pay shipping and for a smith to install drop-in parts. Easy choice there.

[jgillaspy 24]

Thanks for the info Tony.

 

Guys, I am pretty sure that Tromix had posted a while ago about having FCG in development, sold only as a complete package. If that is still in the works you will have two choices, and one which will not require you to pay shipping and for a smith to install drop-in parts. Easy choice there.

 

If you check his site he lists the parts, both planned and currently available, the BOLD ones being available. A hammer is not on the list. I hope/wish he has one in the future, but until someone brings inexpensive, US-made magazines to market (increasing the market for accessories) he will likely not do more R&D. He has posted such in other threads.

 

jgillaspy

[Bvamp 604]

Tony, can you please scan the second sheet, without your info on it, of course? Id sure appreciate it.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

There is nothing on the second sheet other than, "Check with your local law enforcement to see if there are any local ordinances that may also apply."

 

Tony

[Bvamp 604]

oh, pssh. assholes.

 

Thanks, man.

 

its pretty damn close to what Clyde said, right?

 

-edit - it sure looks like it.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Ben Vampatella

[RedDevilGuns 25]

Sounds like parts need to be made. So i can have my fancy adjustable stock without worrying about the non-sporting crap. Stupid ATF I hate you stupid smelly faces. Can't wait til quadrails become more affordable for it so i can whole hog on it instead of having to deal with that stock forend.

[Syndicate 812]

Sounds like parts need to be made. So i can have my fancy adjustable stock without worrying about the non-sporting crap. Stupid ATF I hate you stupid smelly faces. Can't wait til quadrails become more affordable for it so i can whole hog on it instead of having to deal with that stock forend.

+1

I couldn't agree more RedDevilGuns

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I would make more parts if I thought there was any money to be made. But right, now I am in the hole about $50,000 on the project and don't plan to flush any more cash down the toilet.

 

Tony

[brad cole 65]

hello but am I the only one who's eyes caught you can AOW the akdal. I'm in michigan no short barrels allowed. This could be good news

[jgillaspy 24]

Sounds like parts need to be made. So i can have my fancy adjustable stock without worrying about the non-sporting crap. Stupid ATF I hate you stupid smelly faces. Can't wait til quadrails become more affordable for it so i can whole hog on it instead of having to deal with that stock forend.

 

According to Tony in another MKA-1919 post a folding or collapsible stock ARE non-sporting features and require 922® compliance. Tony, feel free to jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong.

 

jgillaspy

[compshootfl 40]

Now that there seems to be a definitive list...maybe the manufacturers interested in providing parts for 922r compliance or otherwise could have a meeting and spread the risk out between them, by deciding what parts they are comfortable producing. It would seem that if there are 4-5 companies involved, then there would be more of an incentive to produce these parts for this up and coming platform.

Edited July 5, 2012 by compshootfl

[patriot 7,197]

BATFE shouldn't be allowed to rule on this or anything else. They are not a legislative body. They are ENFORCEMENT. They collect taxes, and uphold the Law. They don't get to decide what the law is.

[Ketzer 1]

I'm not entirely following this?

 

Tony has suspended production and development and comments that anything further would be throwing away money,

 

jgillaspy breaks down all the parts and says a compliant gun can be built and still have parts to the good?

 

These seem to contradict and I am not understanding?

[OKC08GT500 1]

I'm not entirely following this?

 

Tony has suspended production and development and comments that anything further would be throwing away money,

 

jgillaspy breaks down all the parts and says a compliant gun can be built and still have parts to the good?

 

These seem to contradict and I am not understanding?

 

It could be that sales are diminishing because of the lack of high cap mags.

[Ketzer 1]

 

It could be that sales are diminishing because of the lack of high cap mags.

 

...and the interest in producing hi-caps is diminishing becase of all the legislation /ban /war on evil assault gun etc, etc. I get it.

[FoxHound 3]

I'm new to this sort of thing (worrying about 922r compliance)

 

So far from reading this thread it seems that I'd need to buy a few more parts to make my 1919 legal IF I were to add a folding stock to it via the 1919 stock adapter plate

 

So far I've bought the Firebird extended charging handle and oversized mag button, the Tromix gas piston, Tromix polymer stock, folding mechanism, and Tromix stock adapter plate.

 

To be fully 922r compliant, I'd need to purchase either the Firebird FCG... OR, the Tromix trigger set and a magazine base plate...

 

am I understanding this correctly?

 

Also, Centerfire Systems should be receiving a huge shipment of firebird handguards... so that would count as another 922r compliant part, right? Theyre supposed to be available sometime this month... so I could wait to nab it and not worry about those steel magazine base plates (other than for 922r, whats the point/benefit?)

 

Too bad the firebird handguards are ugly as sin and I can see more use for that Tromix quadrail (though it seems that project has been halted due to not enough profit?)

 

 

Man, more companies need to start biting the bullet and produce more high-cap mags to sell more 1919s... this egg/chicken mexican standoff Mr. Tony Rumore mentioned is really irritating lol

Edited September 7, 2012 by FoxHound

[Syndicate 812]

the stock and handgaurd don't count, they are all part of the reciever and one part, if you change either you need to be 922r compliant.

 

and you can't buy the firebird FCG, they install the FCG, and pistol and stock adapter at thier location.

[bulldog_shotgun 47]

the handguard counts, the stock and pistol grip don't. just wanted to clarify.

[Syndicate 812]

oh oops misread that

thanks Bulldog

[FoxHound 3]

the handguard counts, the stock and pistol grip don't. just wanted to clarify.

 

Ok good, I just wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand that ATF letter.

[bulldog_shotgun 47]

I'm new to this sort of thing (worrying about 922r compliance)

 

So far from reading this thread it seems that I'd need to buy a few more parts to make my 1919 legal IF I were to add a folding stock to it via the 1919 stock adapter plate

 

So far I've bought the Firebird extended charging handle and oversized mag button, the Tromix gas piston, Tromix polymer stock, folding mechanism, and Tromix stock adapter plate.

 

To be fully 922r compliant, I'd need to purchase either the Firebird FCG... OR, the Tromix trigger set and a magazine base plate...

 

am I understanding this correctly?

 

Also, Centerfire Systems should be receiving a huge shipment of firebird handguards... so that would count as another 922r compliant part, right? Theyre supposed to be available sometime this month... so I could wait to nab it and not worry about those steel magazine base plates (other than for 922r, whats the point/benefit?)

 

Too bad the firebird handguards are ugly as sin and I can see more use for that Tromix quadrail (though it seems that project has been halted due to not enough profit?)

 

 

Man, more companies need to start biting the bullet and produce more high-cap mags to sell more 1919s... this egg/chicken mexican standoff Mr. Tony Rumore mentioned is really irritating lol

 

correct so far you have purchased one 922 compliance part. you need at least 3 more.

[Hajk 8]

Let's sum this up and make it easy!Tromix fcg-2parts,Gas bushing-1part and Magazine floor plate-1part= 4 total parts! That will get you down to an acceptable foreign part count and 922r Compliant---Amen!