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<3 MSA so far..


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#1 vladtepes

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:19 PM

just got back from the range and put the first batch of ammo through my AR magwell equipped Saiga.... flawless with the exception of a couple nose dives... a bullet guide should resolve all issues...

as long as the trunion holds this will be one of my favorite guns yet.. really like it.

Posted Image

Saiga 556
Magpul CTR
Ace Pignose Adapter
Ace Internal Block
Dinzag Tapco G2 FCG
Hogue Grip
MSA AR15 Magwell
Magpul Pmag
Magpul MS3
Kvar Lower Handguard
CSS Lower Handguard Retainer
Ultimak Gas Tube
Vltor Quick Release Flashlight Mount
Surefire G2
Aimpoint H1

Edited by vladtepes, 07 July 2012 - 09:06 PM.

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#2 vladtepes

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:25 PM

excuse the poor picture quality.. iphone snapshot..

gotta get it to stop denting my brass.. lol

Edited by vladtepes, 07 July 2012 - 09:06 PM.

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#3 Brian M1

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:01 PM

BEAUTIFUL rifle!

#4 vladtepes

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:07 PM

BEAUTIFUL rifle!


thanks.. really happy with how it runs..

#5 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:13 PM

completed my MSA adapter install today, hope to get it out tomorrow or next week. that's a Jersey 15/20 PMag

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#6 Jet

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:20 PM

Both guns look great.
I've been thinking about buying an adapter for my 223.
Any tips, special tooling, or problems installing the adapter?

#7 Brian M1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:12 AM

completed my MSA adapter install today, hope to get it out tomorrow or next week. that's a Jersey 15/20 PMag

Posted Image

Get out of Jersey! I grew up there and couldn't WAIT to get out of that communist state! Thank god I'm in "America" now (PA). Jersey is NOT the place you want to be (as well as CA) if you are a 2nd amendment fan (shame that some states don't recognize your RIGHTS.) Thatls why I vote with my $ by NOT buying ANYTHING produced in NJ or CA).

Edited by Brian M1, 08 July 2012 - 01:13 AM.


#8 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:37 AM

Both guns look great.
I've been thinking about buying an adapter for my 223.
Any tips, special tooling, or problems installing the adapter?

I used a Dremel and I took my time. As Saiga novice my Tip would be don’t do attempt this if you are in a rush, only do it if you can take your time. Also good lighting if a must of old guys, LOL. If you are entertaining the thought of doing this mod consider the adding the bullet guide as well.

#9 vladtepes

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:20 AM

Both guns look great.
I've been thinking about buying an adapter for my 223.
Any tips, special tooling, or problems installing the adapter?


people who have major issues with this IMO are not patient...
it IS a pain in the ass if you try to rush through it.... if you just sit down relax.. and have at it.. there should be no issues..

also.. about the measurements.. I am going to be totally honest here... if you have a mill.. the measurements are great.. and I guess even without a mill they serve as a guide.. but my measuring was out the door about halfway through.. test fit test fit test fit test fit... over and over and over again.. the adapter will tell you where it is having trouble fitting.. look for the scratches and adjust...

I used a dremel with a carbide bit and lots of oil.. the trunion metal was never hot enough that I could not touch it with a bare finger...

if you use a dremel.. make sure your cuts are straight.. go off a little at an angle and you will rub in one spot and not others..

like I was saying.. it looks like you really cut up the trunion.. but now that I am done.. I gotta say.. there appears to be plenty of metal left..


on another note.. MSA was great.. got my magwell FAST.. quality is great.. and the mags drop free without issue..

Edited by vladtepes, 08 July 2012 - 07:21 AM.

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#10 Brian M1

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:37 AM

Those MSA magwell's look SWEET!

#11 TAKD

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:34 PM

Well if you like that... then you'll be happy to know we just updated the release mech. It's now got more area to push on........

#12 Jet

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

Well if you like that... then you'll be happy to know we just updated the release mech. It's now got more area to push on........

Pics please.Posted Image

#13 TAKD

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:49 PM

I don't have the CAD files or Pics with me here.... but I'll have production pics in two weeks.

#14 vladtepes

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:38 AM

I don't have the CAD files or Pics with me here.... but I'll have production pics in two weeks.


you make really nice stuff... I am really thrilled with it...

any idea why the last round nose dives.. and will a bullet guide fix it as I suspect..

#15 TAKD

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:29 PM

I think it's caused by the spring rate.... you use 20rnd mags in NJ????? I would add a BG.... should solve your issue. LMK

OH!

It's not a pic of the release mech like ya'll wanted.... but I thought I'd show what's we are playing with.

No, It's not the final production mock up. So before someone bust my chops on a release date. I'm not saying just yet...... There are still patent issues to resolve so not all the features are shown in the pic.

Posted Image

#16 Jet

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:19 PM

Looks great.
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#17 vladtepes

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

I think it's caused by the spring rate.... you use 20rnd mags in NJ????? I would add a BG.... should solve your issue. LMK

OH!

It's not a pic of the release mech like ya'll wanted.... but I thought I'd show what's we are playing with.

No, It's not the final production mock up. So before someone bust my chops on a release date. I'm not saying just yet...... There are still patent issues to resolve so not all the features are shown in the pic.

Posted Image


standard Pmgas.. I am in America now..

I have to seriously pat you on the back.. the release and everything.. SO nice..
as long as the trunion holds I will LOVE this product..

I just noticed that the front lug was contacting one side of the mag by JUST a hair.. I would still lock in.. but there was contact.. so I shaved it a little more.. and now the mags go in even easier.. I wonder if that tension on the mag could cause issue?

if I need to add a BG I have no issue with that..

I am MORE than pleased with this product.. if you own a 223 saiga and an AR you SHOULD already have this thing!

and you get into some issues with pleasing everyone and all that.. people complain.. but you have been GREAT with me!

*first time ordered an S12 handguard.. had a last minute change of heart.. you took it back issued a FULL refund.. NO QUESTIONS ASKED..
*second order MSA adapter.. fast service... great product..

I would not hesitate to deal with you for anything.. keep working on putting out good shit... interested in any feedback about that last round issue.. if I go slow.. it is a non issue.. it only happened when I really bang off a bunch of rounds quickly... and it is ONLY the last round..

#18 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:10 PM

I think it's caused by the spring rate.... you use 20rnd mags in NJ????? I would add a BG.... should solve your issue. LMK

OH!

It's not a pic of the release mech like ya'll wanted.... but I thought I'd show what's we are playing with.

No, It's not the final production mock up. So before someone bust my chops on a release date. I'm not saying just yet...... There are still patent issues to resolve so not all the features are shown in the pic.



since we already milled out our 223’s would this future version be backward compatible with your existing MSA adapters in the event we wanted to upgrade?

#19 TAKD

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:19 PM

Yes. The idea was always to keep it compatible.

#20 vladtepes

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:03 PM


I think it's caused by the spring rate.... you use 20rnd mags in NJ????? I would add a BG.... should solve your issue. LMK

OH!

It's not a pic of the release mech like ya'll wanted.... but I thought I'd show what's we are playing with.

No, It's not the final production mock up. So before someone bust my chops on a release date. I'm not saying just yet...... There are still patent issues to resolve so not all the features are shown in the pic.



since we already milled out our 223’s would this future version be backward compatible with your existing MSA adapters in the event we wanted to upgrade?


I think the milling is more to get the AR mag to fit than it is to get the adapter to fit... the mag sits higher than the adapter....

................


I just noticed that the front lug was contacting one side of the mag by JUST a hair.. I would still lock in.. but there was contact.. so I shaved it a little more.. and now the mags go in even easier.. I wonder if that tension on the mag could cause issue?

if I need to add a BG I have no issue with that..



#21 TAKD

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:34 PM

Vladtepes, In case my reply was to cryptic. It sounds like a weak spring/follower issue. I know and 20rnd mags can have a weaker spring rate. A BG should resolve.

#22 Brian M1

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:30 PM

I think it's caused by the spring rate.... you use 20rnd mags in NJ????? I would add a BG.... should solve your issue. LMK

OH!

It's not a pic of the release mech like ya'll wanted.... but I thought I'd show what's we are playing with.

No, It's not the final production mock up. So before someone bust my chops on a release date. I'm not saying just yet...... There are still patent issues to resolve so not all the features are shown in the pic.

Posted Image


What is that thing? ... a combined trigger guard/pg base/magwell??

#23 vladtepes

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:45 PM

Vladtepes, In case my reply was to cryptic. It sounds like a weak spring/follower issue. I know and 20rnd mags can have a weaker spring rate. A BG should resolve.


thanks man.. I just thought you were asking because you thought I had modified magazines..
they are standard 30 round pmags..
but I will go with the bullet guide and call it a day..hopefully that resolves it..
because I love the product.. thanks..

#24 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:45 PM

I just noticed that the front lug was contacting one side of the mag by JUST a hair.. I would still lock in.. but there was contact.. so I shaved it a little more.. and now the mags go in even easier.. I wonder if that tension on the mag could cause issue?


@ vladtepes and/or MSA

So what you are saying is there should be some clearance between the top of the mag and milled surface? I started my install last weekend and since then I probably hit the height 2 - 3 times with the Dremel during the week because was just a shade under. I didn't want to go overboard and take too much off, I figured could always go back and take a little off at a time. Last week I had to give it a good hit to lock it in but now I have it down to a little tap to lock in.

I'm not an AR guy but if I take the same mag (or mags) and put it in the my SU16 all I have to do is push in and it locks very easy, Should the MSA adapter be that easy or should I leave it as to where it only requires a slight tap to lock in? Like I said I had it down to where it now only requires a little bump to lock in and I don't want to remove too much... if I remove anymore material I'm certain I will exceed that suggested .89" height. I installed the bullet guide yesterday and had to trim down the length on the BG fit, that should work nicely, looking forward to testing this weekend.

Edited by Another-Saiga-Fan, 13 July 2012 - 12:08 AM.


#25 vladtepes

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:18 AM


I just noticed that the front lug was contacting one side of the mag by JUST a hair.. I would still lock in.. but there was contact.. so I shaved it a little more.. and now the mags go in even easier.. I wonder if that tension on the mag could cause issue?


@ vladtepes and/or MSA

So what you are saying is there should be some clearance between the top of the mag and milled surface? I started my install last weekend and since then I probably hit the height 2 - 3 times with the Dremel during the week because was just a shade under. I didn't want to go overboard and take too much off, I figured could always go back and take a little off at a time. Last week I had to give it a good hit to lock it in but now I have it down to a little tap to lock in.

I'm not an AR guy but if I take the same mag (or mags) and put it in the my SU16 all I have to do is push in and it locks very easy, Should the MSA adapter be that easy or should I leave it as to where it only requires a slight tap to lock in? Like I said I had it down to where it now only requires a little bump to lock in and I don't want to remove too much... if I remove anymore material I'm certain I will exceed that suggested .89" height. I installed the bullet guide yesterday and had to trim down the length on the BG fit, that should work nicely, looking forward to testing this weekend.


the mag can either fully seat or it can't... if the mag can fully seat and is not hitting the lug.. then it is fitting.. if it is not.. then it is not fitting..

my mags go in easily and drop free.. but I sanded the adapter a little on the outside in the spots that I shaved the dimples to reduce contact and pressure on the adapter...

#26 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:04 PM

I had her this morning no major problems. My mag won’t drop free but if I hit the release the mag drops about .75” and I have to remove it from there. There is no outside pressure because upon the adapter because the result is the same with the adapter in or out of the gun. I think a little more polishing may take care of that.

If I had a complaint it would be forgetting to use the adapter release. A few times today I used the Saiga mag release and popped the adapter. It would be nice for me if there was a way to temporally lock-out the Saiga adapter, perhaps with set-screw or something. Owning three other Saiga rifles there is a very good chance I will not break that habit. Other than that the adapter & bullet guide performed flawlessly. I took my SU16 along and toggled between the two rifles with the one mag, neither rifle jammed after 80 – 90 rounds each. I used Wolf, Silver Bear and Winchester ammo

#27 vladtepes

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:12 PM

great hopefully it fixes my issue as well./.

#28 TAKD

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

Posted Image

What is that thing? ... a combined trigger guard/pg base/magwell??


Something called the B.A.S.T.A.R.D. .... in addition to the above features it will also feature a LRBHO. Designed to use AR Mags, parts and grips. Wipe the bottom of your .223 then bolt this up in place. *** Will require trunnion modification on single stack trunnion rifles such as the Saiga .223***

Bastard adj.
1. Born of unwed parents; illegitimate.
2. Not genuine; spurious: a bastard style of architecture.
3. Resembling a known kind or species but not truly such.

Bastardize vb
1. to debase; modify - cause to change; make different; cause a transformation;

#29 TAKD

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:43 PM

I had her this morning no major problems. My mag won’t drop free but if I hit the release the mag drops about .75” and I have to remove it from there. There is no outside pressure because upon the adapter because the result is the same with the adapter in or out of the gun. I think a little more polishing may take care of that.

If I had a complaint it would be forgetting to use the adapter release. A few times today I used the Saiga mag release and popped the adapter. It would be nice for me if there was a way to temporally lock-out the Saiga adapter, perhaps with set-screw or something. Owning three other Saiga rifles there is a very good chance I will not break that habit. Other than that the adapter & bullet guide performed flawlessly. I took my SU16 along and toggled between the two rifles with the one mag, neither rifle jammed after 80 – 90 rounds each. I used Wolf, Silver Bear and Winchester ammo


I'm sure you can make a lock out device. Or just get a BASTARD when its out and your ready to go. Either case I'm glad it's running smoothly.

#30 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:50 PM

@ MSA, yes very happy with it on and love to see American engineering in action or should I say reverse engineering, LOL. I was a little apprehensive about doing this but after today it was well worth it, my 223 didn't miss a beat with 223 and 556 ammo. I have two 223(s), 7.62 and 308. The 223 and 7.62 get the most use because of 308 ammo cost. As I stated previously I am just amazed at how smooth the 223 operates, and now with the addition of Adapter, PMag and bullet guide it was a seamless transition. Had it jammed I would have been the first to complain, again a very enjoyable morning at the range.

So with the BASTARD we would transfer the existing parts or it be fully assembled? Do think they will be deployed by fall? Thanks again!




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