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Here's food for thought. Up until the September 11 attacks in NYC, the largest mass murder in NYC history occured when Cuban Refugee Julio Gonzales killed 87 people inside the Happy Land Social Club in the Bronx, March 25, 1990. He did not use a gun nor a bomb. Instead, he used a plastic container he found on the ground and filled it with less than $1 of gasoline. He poured it on the staircase which was the only entrance to the club and ignited it. Guns are not a particularly efficient way of disposing large numbers of people. The anti-gunners don't compare this incident with the Batman incident for a reason.

ETA: This info came from Pat Rogers. He said his brother was one of the Firefighters that responded.

Edited by MT Predator
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You can armchair quarterback this situation till you turn blue in the face but I will say one thing. I would not allow myself to be slaughtered with the fleeing sheep. I'm sure he had to be covering

This is a terrible tragedy but on Memorial day weeked over 40 people were shot in Chicago, 10 expired. The body count for the year, 250. TWENTY TIMES that were killed today. So they are already carryi

Here's food for thought. Up until the September 11 attacks in NYC, the largest mass murder in NYC history occured when Cuban Refugee Julio Gonzales killed 87 people inside the Happy Land Social Club

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Here's food for thought. Up until the September 11 attacks in NYC, the largest mass murder in NYC history occured when Cuban Refugee Julio Gonzales killed 87 people inside the Happy Land Social Club in the Bronx, March 25, 1990. He did not use a gun nor a bomb. Instead, he used a plastic container he found on the ground and filled it with less than $1 of gasoline. He poured it on the staircase which was the only entrance to the club and ignited it. Guns are not a particularly efficient way of disposing large numbers of people. The anti-gunners don't compare this incident with the Batman incident for a reason.

ETA: This info came from Pat Rogers. He said his brother was one of the Firefighters that responded.

 

The people who do this type of shooting are using the guns as props. Makes it more spectacular. As noted, you can kill a lot more people with fire. In the incident above, the doors were chained shut to keep people from sneaking in. The two people that were targeted by the arsonist escaped. They were the guy's ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend.

 

Even if we could take all guns away from people, the nuts would just switch tactics and weapons. Probably would end up killing a lot more people.

Edited by ironhead7544
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I heard most of the kills were with the shotgun, but cannot confirm this. He shot over 70 people its a miracle that not many more were killed.

 

I think he wanted to shoot it out with the cops but chickened out when they responded so fast and found him in is car.

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Sure doesnt look like a hundred round mag......

 

There's a closer shot of the AR laying outside the door, floating around somewhere. It's a standard 30rd mag. Word is, is that the drum mag was left inside once he emptied it.

 

EDIT: Derp. Just saw that Karl said that already.

Edited by -Shooter-
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Roger Ebert is a fucking moron.

 

 

Jumping on the gun-ban band wagon and to take political advantage of the murders in Colorado, film critic Roger Ebert immediately ran to his keyboard to decry our "insane" gun laws in an Op Ed in the New York Times. His goal was to invalidate concealed carry laws by noting that no one in the theater shot back at the murderer in black. But, Ebert misses an important point. The Cinemark theater chain has a "gun-free zone" policy.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/publius-forum/2012/07/roger-ebert-ties-to-exploit-colorado-crime-for-gin-control-purposes/

 

 

Stick to reviewing movies, you dipshit.

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I have been thinking the past couple days if there was a significance to him attacking at a batman movie.

 

In the last movie batman had the population turned against him by the joker... Much in the same way firearms serve as our own protection. So his aim was to vilify firearms as they are what keep us from harm from criminals.

 

Remember with most crazies their actions have some deeper meaning that does not always make sense to rational people.

 

 

Option two is he picked batman so he could walk in fully geared without being noticed.

Which is something that had me on edge when I went to megacon in Orlando.. Had people walking around with airsoft/dummy guns but at the front door the police working security did not check to confirm.

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I don't have the like, but it turns out this scumbag was a member of ARF.com!!

 

Where did you read that?

 

I just cruised through GD over there and don't see anything about it, and shit spreads faster than a whore's legs over there.

 

 

EDIT: I found the big thread on the shooting, over there. There was a member who was thought to be the shooter, but after comparing personal info, it's not the same guy. At least, this goes for the member "LDMaster" over there (hasn't been on since '09). Not sure if there are any other members who are suspected to be the shooter.

 

EDIT #2: There was a link to PeekYou, that showed the shooter as being a member of a few different gun forums. The thing is, though..........it was edited/updated right after the shooting, according to the website. Someone thought it would be funny, I guess.

 

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if he was a member of gun forums, especially Arfcom. If you do any sort of searching online for info on an AR15, you're going to end up at Arfcom pretty quick.

Edited by -Shooter-
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Dressed as the joker, so says a New York police commissioner. I'm not sure why anyone thinks he's particularly privy to an investigation going on in Colorado.

 

And WTF is with the media anymore??

 

The Aurora police chief Oates is ex NYPD. There have been several news quotes from current NYPD, who I can only assume were his old buddies.

 

Oates is also the person responsible for all those people being pulled out of their cars and detained while their vehicles were searched after a bank robbery in June.

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I've been traveling all day so I've had alot of time to thinnk this through. So I'm not just going off half cocked.

 

I smell conspiracy, government or progessive libatards.

 

Where did a college kid get the money to pay for guns, piles of ammo, body armor, and complex liquid explosives?

 

My wife just found photos of this asshole at Occupy San Diego. He's a liberal progressive. His timing is perfect to garner support for the signing and ratification the arms treaty that is just days away!

 

Why did he shoot the shit out of those poor people and then tell LEO that the apartment was loaded with explosives? Doesn't make sense if he was looking for a high body count. Who kow how many LEO would have been killed if had not old them. That brings the focus of the public back to the use of guns killing the people in the theater. The bombs did not go off so no one goves a shit about them.

 

THIS WAS DONE TO PROMOTE GUN CONTROL!

 

Some good points, it does have a feel that it's a lot more than some snot nosed college kid that went nuts.

 

>>My wife just found photos of this asshole at Occupy San Diego.

 

You sure it's the right guy?

 

Might be good info for law enforcement if it appears that he is with anybody in the photos.

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"He emailed an application to join the Lead Valley Range in Byers on June 25 in which he said he was not a user of illegal drugs or a convicted felon, said owner Glenn Rotkovich. When Rotkovich called to invite him to a mandatory orientation the following week, he said he heard a message on Holmes' voice mail that was "bizarre - guttural, freakish at best."

 

Yes, he has serious mental health issues. He's a lone ranger with deep seated problems.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/22/us/colorado-shooting-suspect/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

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What about the News Media taking responsibility for continuing to give these murderers the recognition and national podium that they seek when doing these horrific acts?

 

I am willing to bet that when they get to the heart of this, that is what this fucker wanted was some sort of national pulpit to spew his crazy nonsense and viewpoints. The media will happily give him everything he wants so long as they get to roll in the blood a little longer.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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Eh, if Rotkovich really thought this guy had serious mental issues, and could assume he had guns since he wanted a gun club membership, shouldn't he have alerted someone?

 

And seriously, one of the reasons he was wary of the guy was that he signed off his email with "Cheers". It doesn't make sense.

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Eh, if Rotkovich really thought this guy had serious mental issues, and could assume he had guns since he wanted a gun club membership, shouldn't he have alerted someone?

 

And seriously, one of the reasons he was wary of the guy was that he signed off his email with "Cheers". It doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

I dont agree with this point of view. What if someone thought you had a mental issue and called the police on you? I know plenty of "goofy" people doesnt mean they will

gear up and go on a shooting spree and doesnt mean they shouldnt be allowed to own guns. If this were so easy people would be calling cops on lots of people

it would be like a witch hunt. And "cheers"? Thats a common saying in England as a way of saying "see ya" or "thanks" or when drinking. Ive heard Americans use it in this way too. I think it was his voice mail that bothered him.

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What about the News Media taking responsibility for continuing to give these murderers the recognition and national podium that they seek when doing these horrific acts?

 

I am willing to bet that when they get to the heart of this, that is what this fucker wanted was some sort of national pulpit to spew his crazy nonsense and viewpoints. The media will happily give him everything he wants so long as they get to roll in the blood a little longer.

 

That is EXACTLY what it is about, these assholes do this for the infamy of it. They know if they rack up a body count they will get their face, name and bullshit agenda plastered all over the worldwide media. I do not know if anyone has made the connection, but it seems pretty coincedental that this attack happened just 3 days prior to the one year aniversary of the Norway killer. There is another case of some crazy fuck that wanted his bullshit cause plastered all over the media. If the media didn't glorify these assholes and put their face, name and life story out there, maybe these assholes would just put one in their head and call it a day.

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I dont agree with this point of view. What if someone thought you had a mental issue and called the police on you? I know plenty of "goofy" people doesnt mean they will

gear up and go on a shooting spree and doesnt mean they shouldnt be allowed to own guns. If this were so easy people would be calling cops on lots of people

it would be like a witch hunt. And "cheers"? Thats a common saying in England as a way of saying "see ya" or "thanks" or when drinking. Ive heard Americans use it in this way too. I think it was his voice mail that bothered him.

 

If someone thought I was armed, and too mentally unstable to use my gun at their range, they should probably check in with someone about it. No one claimed this guy was merely goofy, And, I never said call the cops. He could have checked in with other range owners in the area to keep their eye out if he was worried. He only mentions alerting his own staff.

 

This was someone who dealt with civilian shooters in a professional capacity. If this guy really raised as many red flags for him as he is saying to the media now, he should have done something. My main point is, though, that I don't really think Rotkovich was initially as freaked by this guy as he's claiming now.

 

Rotkovich himself brought up the use of the term 'cheers' in media interviews. He made a point of saying it was strange. That seems weird to me.

Edited by anticommagirl
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I dont agree with this point of view. What if someone thought you had a mental issue and called the police on you? I know plenty of "goofy" people doesnt mean they will

gear up and go on a shooting spree and doesnt mean they shouldnt be allowed to own guns. If this were so easy people would be calling cops on lots of people

it would be like a witch hunt. And "cheers"? Thats a common saying in England as a way of saying "see ya" or "thanks" or when drinking. Ive heard Americans use it in this way too. I think it was his voice mail that bothered him.

 

If someone thought I was armed, and too mentally unstable to use my gun at their range, they should probably check in with someone about it. No one claimed this guy was merely goofy, And, I never said call the cops. He could have checked in with other range owners in the area to keep their eye out if he was worried. He only mentions alerting his own staff.

 

This was someone who dealt with civilian shooters in a professional capacity. If this guy really raised as many red flags for him as he is saying to the media now, he should have done something. My main point is, though, that I don't really think Rotkovich was initially as freaked by this guy as he's claiming now.

 

Rotkovich himself brought up the use of the term 'cheers' in media interviews. He made a point of saying it was strange. That seems weird to me.

 

An opinion about someone is just that... an opinion. It is not grounds to strip someone else's rights away without trial.

 

I see a lot of dipshits at the public range that are unsafe and exhibit behavior that I consider dangerous (like finger on the trigger and poor muzzle discipline), yet you cannot call the police to take away all of these people's firearms and lock them up until they actually do hurt someone or willfully assault someone.

 

 

 

People that believe they can prevent mentally fucked-up people with the intent to physically harm others (which is already illigal) from doing so by making new rules are the definition of 'ignorant'.

 

107 people died today in Iraq bombings and 20 died yesterday, yet we somehow think that we can stop random senseless violence here because it doesn't happen as often in our little bubble of the world.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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What about the News Media taking responsibility for continuing to give these murderers the recognition and national podium that they seek when doing these horrific acts?

 

I am willing to bet that when they get to the heart of this, that is what this fucker wanted was some sort of national pulpit to spew his crazy nonsense and viewpoints. The media will happily give him everything he wants so long as they get to roll in the blood a little longer.

 

That is EXACTLY what it is about, these assholes do this for the infamy of it. They know if they rack up a body count they will get their face, name and bullshit agenda plastered all over the worldwide media. I do not know if anyone has made the connection, but it seems pretty coincedental that this attack happened just 3 days prior to the one year aniversary of the Norway killer. There is another case of some crazy fuck that wanted his bullshit cause plastered all over the media. If the media didn't glorify these assholes and put their face, name and life story out there, maybe these assholes would just put one in their head and call it a day.

 

I've noticed the fact that they, the media, don't want to say the guys name. Even on Facebook they're not saying his name because it will give him the credit he wants. Why is it now that the media wants to keep the guys name out if it. There has been many more, and worse, shootings/killings than this but NOW they don't want to give him credit?

 

What about the eye witness that saw someone get a call in the theater and instead of going back to the lobby the guy goes in front by the exact emergency exit the shooter came in at. Could that guy have opened the door just enough for the shooter to pull open from the outside? Was that the shooter calling him to tell him he was 10th minutes out?

 

If he wanted to be the "joker" and wanted to cause death and chaos, why would he just give up to cops? Why would he tell the cops about the "explosives" and "boobie-traps" at his apartment?

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He gave up because he is a spineless coward.

He told the cops about his apartment because he is a spineless coward.

He planned to do this in a place with low probability of someone shooting back because he is a spineless coward.

He didn't take his own life after realizing he is so screwed up in the head because he is a spineless coward.

 

Most of these mass murderers have some agenda that has become the most important thing in their lives, but I think they are all spineless cowards when it includes killing innocent unarmed people.

They are process predators, they don't want your money, or your car, or your stuff, they want to complete some process or commit some act for a reason they've developed in their mind.

On different levels they include serial rapists and murderers, read the book "Facing Violence" by Rory Miller.

 

As for reporting him, we get people trying to join our range (Ocala Sportsman's Association, osarange.com) who are elderly, exhibiting signs of dementia, or just plain goofy and a bit off in the brain department.

We are polite, try to let them down gently through our orientation process, but we refuse membership to people who cannot practice safe firearm handling, and can't seem to learn and retain basic safety rules.

I've heard it all, from "You're a range nazi!", to "I was shooting before you were born, you can't tell me I'm not safe".

It's never smart to cause a confrontation with a known armed individual, especially if you have no idea of their mental state.

We have close communication with the Sheriff's office, but what can they do unless someone witnesses a crime, or is a relative of the person?

 

It's sad when elderly folks want to shoot, but have no support from friends or their kids. Go to a public range if you want to see an occasional goofy, dangerous person with firearms.

Looks like what this range owner was trying to do, (he hadn't met the shooter yet), was to evaluate him in person maybe?

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