racenviper 2 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Yep thats right, I have purcased a S12. Got it back in June. The serial number starts with H12, so is this a 2012 model? I took it to the range last week to cycle some rounds throught it, this is what happened. I started with Winchester AA Heavy Target 2.75" 3dr. eq. 1-7/8 oz 8 shot. loaded five and it shot every round, but failed to eject the last round. Stovepipe. Next I tried Winchester AA Light Target 2.75" 2.75dr. eq. 1-7/8 oz 7.5 shot Loaded 5 and same, every round fired and ejected except for the last round. Stovepipe. I shot another 15 rounds in groups of five, the last round always failed to eject. What can be done to get the last round to eject? Cycle more rounds? I have not done anything to this firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supertex 242 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 go to CSS and get the saiga 12 reliability kit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chicagosfinest 26 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Welcome to the forum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 go to CSS and get the saiga 12 reliability kit No...DON'T do this. At least, don't run the reduced power spring. The v-plug and puck are alright. You might look into the Tac 47 autoplug or the V-plug independently and see if they might be to your liking. It sounds like your gun is just a little undergassed, and that the successful ejections are aided by the force of the next round pushing up on it. More of a break-in period might help the gun wear into itself a bit, and also get some Federal Bulk #8 or #7 1/2, as the Winchester stuff has been notoriously bad for FTEs in the S-12's. Check your gas ports and see how many you have and how large (also make sure they aren't completely obstructed). Yours is the first 2012 model I've heard of, so it will be interesting to see how yours compares to previous years. The quality seems to have gone up in the last few production years, so that is good news. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shankspony 40 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I found that manually cycling my Saigas 400-500 times after a throrough initial cleaning may have helped break them in without spending money on ammo. Sure, my accountant didn't like all the racket, but it's better than wasting $$$ on ammo and the frustration of FTEs. I don't think you put near enough cycles through that weapon to "break it in." 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I found that manually cycling my Saigas 400-500 times after a throrough initial cleaning may have helped break them in without spending money on ammo. Sure, my accountant didn't like all the racket, but it's better than wasting $$$ on ammo and the frustration of FTEs. I don't think you put near enough cycles through that weapon to "break it in." Yes, I also did this. It helps immensely with wearing the moving parts into each other. Get a beer, turn on the TV, and just keep racking it open and letting it slam home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
45Bretired 19 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I agree with shankspony and fourbux. If that won't do it get the V plug or Auto Pug and a CSS puck. No reduced power spring. Or if you can afford it just shoot and shoot until it stops. These guns have to wear into themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOB A. BOOEY 45 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 go to CSS and get the saiga 12 reliability kit What he said.... I found that manually cycling my Saigas 400-500 times after a throrough initial cleaning may have helped break them in without spending money on ammo. Sure, my accountant didn't like all the racket, but it's better than wasting $$$ on ammo and the frustration of FTEs. I don't think you put near enough cycles through that weapon to "break it in." Yes, I also did this. It helps immensely with wearing the moving parts into each other. Get a beer, turn on the TV, and just keep racking it open and letting it slam home. Good advice but dont forget the beer part...LOL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun12 205 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 In my opinion ear protection would be best though. It might just be me but when i let it ride home it hurts my ears. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
montec 164 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'd say get 100rds of some high brass 3" slugs, buck or whatever thats up there for fps( mine likes 1400+, I like shooting 1600fps). Break it in with highbrass thats the first thing I did after I got mine and a friend with one directed me to this forum and thats what I read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Broox 7 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Alright HOLD ON. Im certainly not a Saiga expert yet, but from personal experience I say HOLD ON. My gun was much like yours when I pulled it out of the box. worked 95% of the time. After cleaning and oiling, cycling by hand a few hundred times, and switching to Federal ammunition (not sure which one fixed it, but I think it was the ammo) it now cycles 100% after over 200 rounds. DO THESE FIRST! Edited July 25, 2012 by Broox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 We could say it all again, but I think he would be better served to read this thread where the varying theories are stated most clearly. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/65772-reliability-mods-vs-break-in-vs-quick-fixes/page__st__60&do=findComment&comment=707667 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 It's broken. No hope of fixing it. I'll relieve you of the headache of dealing with it for $100! Seriously though... Read through all the pinned threads at the top. Then decide what to do. I suggest starting with a conversion. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sian 14 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 for your first 10 shots with trap loads, that means you'll probably be fine. I can't really add to the advice above, just assurances that the advice is on the mark. Cycle it a bunch to wear off the rough spots and I think you'll be fine. S12s aren't even made to run the light target stuff at all. That yours is 80% out of the box is a good sign. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegade331 31 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Or you could knock your gas block off and open up your ports with a 3/32 drill bit and save yourself the time..just a thought 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I would suggest not drilling or cutting anything until you have done all you can to eliminate friction. Assuming the weapon is assembled correctly and clean, address problems with friction before problems with gas flow. Metal is easy to take off but very difficult to put back. That doesn't mean some guns don't need cutting. But, it seems as though the need for cutting has gone down in recent years due to higher quality manufacturing at Izhmash. Read up on THE RIGHT WAY to reduce friction or have one of the many friendly and talented business members here do it for you for a reasonable fee. Try this: Allow the shells to sit in the hot sun for a few minutes until they are very warm to the touch. Heat raises their power a bit (giving a little higher pressure or "more gas"). Then load them before they cool and fire. If the problem gets better, you are probably just barely borderline on too much friction. If it doesn't improve, your gun may be a little more than "borderline." Also, make sure the back rim of a 2 3/4" shell isn't catching on the top of the brass of a low brass shell. They can get hung like that (riding forward in the mag) in loading even my factory mag and cause stoppages. I also suggest you leave your gun stock until it runs well. Then convert. Don't give up! It sounds like you have a very nice gun with a lot of promise. Just read a lot on this forum, learn to filter the crap, and don't do anything rash. There are many who know these guns inside and out. Your solution lies here in the forum. Try searching with google and include "saiga 12 forum" and look at only results from this forum. Let us know how it all goes. Good luck! Edited July 25, 2012 by Nephilim7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goose 95 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Drill the gas port till its the size of your pinky nail, hacksaw the bbl off just in front of the gas block, file the FCG until full auto is possible, add low power spring, remove buttstock and safety, add bipod to quadrail and attach to the hood of your car. Then continue your function tests 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 ^ ^ ^ "Crap" to be filtered... No offense, Goose! You forgot, "ream out the chamber" and, "grind on the bolt lug and cam chanel" LOL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Drill the gas port till its the size of your pinky nail, hacksaw the bbl off just in front of the gas block, file the FCG until full auto is possible, add low power spring, remove buttstock and safety, add bipod to quadrail and attach to the hood of your car. Then continue your function tests I literally laughed out loud when I read that! If I had mine to do over, I would have drilled the gas ports to 3/32 and added a TAC47 auto plug a long time ago! I had polished everything and the action was smooth as butter but I still had the occasional failure. After I opened the ports, she runs 100%!!! I have had zero failures with any mags I use. But friction does play a big role. When I first got my gun, it would only cycle high brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goose 95 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Oh and don't forget to cut off that door stop looking thing poking off the back of the bolt carrier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Oh and don't forget to cut off that door stop looking thing poking off the back of the bolt carrier I wish I could dislike a post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Oh and don't forget to cut off that door stop looking thing poking off the back of the bolt carrier I wish I could dislike a post. Umm... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racenviper 2 Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 You might look into the Tac 47 autoplug or the V-plug independently and see if they might be to your liking. It sounds like your gun is just a little undergassed, and that the successful ejections are aided by the force of the next round pushing up on it. More of a break-in period might help the gun wear into itself a bit, and also get some Federal Bulk #8 or #7 1/2, as the Winchester stuff has been notoriously bad for FTEs in the S-12's. I think you were on the right track, but I'll explain below. I found that manually cycling my Saigas 400-500 times after a throrough initial cleaning may have helped break them in without spending money on ammo. Sure, my accountant didn't like all the racket, but it's better than wasting $$$ on ammo and the frustration of FTEs. I don't think you put near enough cycles through that weapon to "break it in." I did just this, thanks and the results listed below. Range Report: Boy are there some crazy replies. I only created this thread because the failures to eject were last rounds only. I did not have a other failures, but the Last Round. Anyways I went to the range this evening after manually cycling the action for 500 plus times and I didn't use any earplugs not needed, thats only for whimps. I loaded up 5 Winchester AA "Super Sport Sporting Clays" 12ga 2.75" 1300 Velocity 1-1/8oz 8 Shot Fired all five in a easy slow manner. each one ejected as they should no failures. I then loaded up the Walmat Feds, fired 5 those and ejected as they should, no failure to eject. Then lastly was the Winchester AA Light Target Loads. Load and behold the greatness of Saiga 12, all 5 ejected and no failures to eject. I fired the rest of those Federals and not a single FTE. I'm pleased with the firearm as it is right now. I have a great starting for my future upgrades. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Racenviper, welcome to the world of, "Damn, aint got enough rounds to shoot any more". Sounds like you are well on your way to a 100% Saiga 12, congrats. There is a trick to searching the site for an answer, use google "FTF saiga 12 forum". Or some thing like that. I will tell ya the damn thing is crazy fun to shoot, when you can get a few 10 round mags, keepshooting sells 5 rounders that work well also. http://www.saiga-12.com/ , one place to get the stuff you need to make "your saiga 12" yours. Here is mine, some dont like it, But I do and that is what counts. Make yours "yours" I have since changed the site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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