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Everyone bases the pronunciation of Saiga upon the factory video. The commentator spoke pretty poor English. His pronunciation was so bad. Why could he not pronounce a single English word properly? Oh yeah, he's a Russian.

 

Someone please post a Russian video of the Saiga.

I want to hear the word in it's native language.

Then I will still say SEGA.

 

To me it's like going to London and trying to speak like a limey. To me it's tool-ish.

 

SEGA!

 

 

 

In Russian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE4_6QRbwAw

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I'd try one. There is a fair amount of logic to the long form recoil system. However for a fair comparison of recoil between the two you would almost need to tape two full auto saigas together. ~7.5 lbs with standard plastic furniture vs ~13 lbs...

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My competition styled saiga weighed about 8.5lbs before I drilled my aluminum handle out, with 16 oz mercury tube, muzzle compensator, buffer, 1 1/8" thick sissy pad, hinge assembly and a magwell. So obviously it could go on a diet. It isn't full auto, but I am sure I wouldn't have any trouble keeping it on target if it were. That is still quite heavy to me and I can change mags a lot faster than the AA 12, which seems relevant for a FA gun. So how much recoil absorbing pogo stick technology could I squeeze in for another five pounds? Loose a few ounces to short gas it, and add them back in mid barrel comps... Add heavier sights and a titan rail... Still would be under 13 lbs, and fold shorter than the AA12 for PDW style holds. I bet the recoil would be similar, and AA12 is supposedly picky about ammo. (a charge occassionally leveled at saigas, but not properly tuned S12s)

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There's just so much shit you can to do a Saiga. Build the ergo anyway you want, add folders or as some members have started dabbling is just go PGO. You can hack the bbl down and chop the gas system. A child can take it apart and clean it. The AA12 is as long as it is no matter what, has to be FA, and only gives you an option for forward grips and optics. What happens when one of the tiny moving parts inside that plastic housing breaks? Lets see a teenager in south africa strip an AA12 and swap a part over from another AA12...yeah right. The one thing that it has going for it is the open bolt design, so you can keep a loaded mag in her at the ready and not worry about the top round mushing against the bolt. But then again you carry/store it with the action open for shit to fall into. The big draw for this gun is that its a badass FA shotgun, but the rate of fire is pathetic, I can pull the trigger on a semi auto S12 faster than that thing shoots. My god this gun pisses me off lol. If they trimmed it down to a simpler design, made it semi, and slapped a dust cover on her, it might be a great hunting shot gun with the long recoil thing they have goin on, but for fucks sake a combat shotgun? UGH!

 

I need another bourbon...

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Well, this story gets better...

 

No shit, there I was, in the supermarket when I heard this:

 

"did you know that in Russia you can own automatic weapons? Yessir, I heard it on the Internet". It gets better

 

"there was this Russian guy comparing automatic shotguns, a boxy looking one and a black one..."

 

"I thought the black one would be better but it jammed a lot and he had to keep changing clips (his words)"

 

There was more but that's the idea. Some people still take what they hear on the Internet at face value.

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Well, this story gets better...

 

No shit, there I was, in the supermarket when I heard this:

 

"did you know that in Russia you can own automatic weapons? Yessir, I heard it on the Internet". It gets better

 

"there was this Russian guy comparing automatic shotguns, a boxy looking one and a black one..."

 

"I thought the black one would be better but it jammed a lot and he had to keep changing clips (his words)"

 

There was more but that's the idea. Some people still take what they hear on the Internet at face value.

 

 

I would have walked up and corrected the idiots.

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There's just so much shit you can to do a Saiga. Build the ergo anyway you want, add folders or as some members have started dabbling is just go PGO. You can hack the bbl down and chop the gas system. A child can take it apart and clean it. The AA12 is as long as it is no matter what, has to be FA, and only gives you an option for forward grips and optics. What happens when one of the tiny moving parts inside that plastic housing breaks? Lets see a teenager in south africa strip an AA12 and swap a part over from another AA12...yeah right. The one thing that it has going for it is the open bolt design, so you can keep a loaded mag in her at the ready and not worry about the top round mushing against the bolt. But then again you carry/store it with the action open for shit to fall into. The big draw for this gun is that its a badass FA shotgun, but the rate of fire is pathetic, I can pull the trigger on a semi auto S12 faster than that thing shoots. My god this gun pisses me off lol. If they trimmed it down to a simpler design, made it semi, and slapped a dust cover on her, it might be a great hunting shot gun with the long recoil thing they have goin on, but for fucks sake a combat shotgun? UGH!

 

I need another bourbon...

 

One other practical aspect of the open bolt in a FA shotgun is that the barrel has to get hot enough to melt shells quickly. They did it in heavy machine guns to reduce risk of cook-off related failures. Imagine having a shell fire, but be fused into the chamber. P'raps we can get Evl to burn through $100 worth of ammo and leave the 2nd to last shot in the barrel for a minute or two and see if it still ejects properly.

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I'm with you on the rate of fire thing though. LSA's build looks perfect. I've seen a few videos of other FA S12s-- The people clearly needed good technique to control them. I could never understand why the gun from the vankiller video had a wire underfolder stock and so forth. The LSA build looks easy to control for an average person.

 

Despite all the criticism, the guy from FPS Russia does know how to control fully automatic firearms and has probably had more practice with more variety than most military people get. It looked like he was forced to do 3 shot or less bursts out of 5 to avoid walking off of his target. Why not have a brake of some kind? he had bare threads, which makes me suspect he took something off to show off how short the gun was.

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There's just so much shit you can to do a Saiga. Build the ergo anyway you want, add folders or as some members have started dabbling is just go PGO. You can hack the bbl down and chop the gas system. A child can take it apart and clean it. The AA12 is as long as it is no matter what, has to be FA, and only gives you an option for forward grips and optics. What happens when one of the tiny moving parts inside that plastic housing breaks? Lets see a teenager in south africa strip an AA12 and swap a part over from another AA12...yeah right. The one thing that it has going for it is the open bolt design, so you can keep a loaded mag in her at the ready and not worry about the top round mushing against the bolt. But then again you carry/store it with the action open for shit to fall into. The big draw for this gun is that its a badass FA shotgun, but the rate of fire is pathetic, I can pull the trigger on a semi auto S12 faster than that thing shoots. My god this gun pisses me off lol. If they trimmed it down to a simpler design, made it semi, and slapped a dust cover on her, it might be a great hunting shot gun with the long recoil thing they have goin on, but for fucks sake a combat shotgun? UGH!

 

I need another bourbon...

 

One other practical aspect of the open bolt in a FA shotgun is that the barrel has to get hot enough to melt shells quickly. They did it in heavy machine guns to reduce risk of cook-off related failures. Imagine having a shell fire, but be fused into the chamber. P'raps we can get Evl to burn through $100 worth of ammo and leave the 2nd to last shot in the barrel for a minute or two and see if it still ejects properly.

 

Touche sir, probably more than likely that's what the guys that made the AA12 were thinking. I can see the slomo video now of just the brass from the end of the shell ejecting and then a FTF. But I still stand by my argument of an open-bolt, combat shotgun needing a dust cover. You def don't want sand in there anymore than anthing else. Especially if it's not Russian made ;) lol

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I would bet that if you put a handful of sand into either magazine, you would have a very heavy single shot, Russian or otherwise. AKs have big gaps everywhere to let sand in and funnel it all toward the mouth of the magazine. The action may run, but the mags seize. That's why the legendary invulnerability to sand is only a legend. Reality gets in the way. AKs do jam up, but you can strip em down, shake em out, and slam in a new mag faster than most other designs.

 

I've never heard of anyone doing sand tests with an AA12, so I will reserve judgement until then.

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LSA Mike-- I'd love it if you arranged some sort of impartial head to head comparison between yours and AA12. Maybe get some military or LE training or purchasing officers to run a few drills with both and give their opinions. It would make for more interesting video than the topic video. I bet it would also get you some sales immediately for entry teams, and future business.

 

I bet they would go with 3-4 of yours per cost of 1 AA-12. (Assuming yours costs around $3500 ea.)

 

Maybe you could get your chance at one of the big machine gun shoots. I doubt AA wants a head-to-head comparison, since they pretend to be the only game in town, but it would be hard to back down from a public challenge at an event like that.

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Everyone bases the pronunciation of Saiga upon the factory video. The commentator spoke pretty poor English. His pronunciation was so bad. Why could he not pronounce a single English word properly? Oh yeah, he's a Russian.

 

Someone please post a Russian video of the Saiga.

I want to hear the word in it's native language.

Then I will still say SEGA.

 

To me it's like going to London and trying to speak like a limey. To me it's tool-ish.

 

SEGA!

 

 

 

In Russian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE4_6QRbwAw

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Someone made a thread just after this one asking what folder they use on that S12, I knew it was used on a lot of rugers but didn't know the brand. Today at lunch I saw the stock in a Sports South catalog and it is for sure Butler Creek...

 

I'll say again, that wire folder is made by BUTLER CREEK. I win

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There's just so much shit you can to do a Saiga. Build the ergo anyway you want, add folders or as some members have started dabbling is just go PGO. You can hack the bbl down and chop the gas system. A child can take it apart and clean it. The AA12 is as long as it is no matter what, has to be FA, and only gives you an option for forward grips and optics. What happens when one of the tiny moving parts inside that plastic housing breaks? Lets see a teenager in south africa strip an AA12 and swap a part over from another AA12...yeah right. The one thing that it has going for it is the open bolt design, so you can keep a loaded mag in her at the ready and not worry about the top round mushing against the bolt. But then again you carry/store it with the action open for shit to fall into. The big draw for this gun is that its a badass FA shotgun, but the rate of fire is pathetic, I can pull the trigger on a semi auto S12 faster than that thing shoots. My god this gun pisses me off lol. If they trimmed it down to a simpler design, made it semi, and slapped a dust cover on her, it might be a great hunting shot gun with the long recoil thing they have goin on, but for fucks sake a combat shotgun? UGH!

 

I need another bourbon...

 

One other practical aspect of the open bolt in a FA shotgun is that the barrel has to get hot enough to melt shells quickly. They did it in heavy machine guns to reduce risk of cook-off related failures. Imagine having a shell fire, but be fused into the chamber. P'raps we can get Evl to burn through $100 worth of ammo and leave the 2nd to last shot in the barrel for a minute or two and see if it still ejects properly.

I need 7 more drums to dump 400 rounds consecutively. Honestly, I don't think they get much hotter after 300. It is just hard to keep it going fast enough to build much more heat. I have 13 drums and can do a 258 round dump. Leave the second to the last shot in the chamber, fire it, and if it ejects the last round will be fired. It can't be Federal though. It will have to be Winchester Universal.

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forgive my ignorance, but who other then LE, gubment, and mil can own an FA s12?

are there consumer FA S12s?

As I understand it, law enforcement agencies, military agencies, Class 3 dealers (the business entity, not the owner/s), and firearm manufacturing companies who possess a Class 2 SOT (the business entity, not the owner/s).

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http://www.everydayn...12s-some-stuff/

 

Why o why wouldn't he use a drum? Plus I would figure anyone making a FA Saiga-12 would go through the trouble of tuning it to fire anything from any position. Not to say it's easy, but it has been done plenty of times before. It makes me cringe every time I hear him (anyone) say SEGA-12,ughhh. It is a name with a correct pronunciation. The video also show a great example of what a lax attitude towards safety will get you.

 

Is it suprising how particularly stupid this guy LOOKS? You Tube vanity run amuck I think.

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