Single or double hook?

[Uncle Alvah 0]

I bought a Saiga .223 last Friday and want to begin gathering the necessary parts to do a conversion.

I was looking at the Tapco G2 trigger group, but I am confused as to whether I need the single hook unit or the double hook?

[canoecanoe 63]

Single hook.

 

Order the Saiga specific G2 if you will be reinstalling the BHO. Otherwise you can order an unmodified G2 and save a few bucks.

 

If you order the parts from Carolina Shooters be sure to use the code "CSS" to receive a 5% discount.

Edited August 9, 2012 by canoecanoe

[vulcan16 971]

Single hook is the easiest to install. Double hook requires cutting a new slot , and gives a cleaner, crisper trigger pull.

You can cut the new slot shorter then the right side (by a hair), it will act as a over travel limiter.

[mancat 2,368]

The second hook on the DH trigger can be filed back so that the receiver does not have to be modified.

 

[Skychief12 1]

It is very easy to cut the slot for the Double hook.

[DrThunder88 912]

Having roughly equal numbers of double- and single-hook triggers, I can say that there is no difference in trigger pull. I'd suggest double-hook for redundancy's sake. You can also file the area mancat mentioned to adjust for overtravel.

[su16a 84]

The second hook on the DH trigger can be filed back so that the receiver does not have to be modified.

 

that's a good idea but I'd still mod the receiver vs. the trigger, but that is just me. I have a 308, 7.62 and two 223's that I converted and they are all single hook. Looking back I should have did one double hook just so I could see for myself. It's not really high on the priority list but I am going to upgrade one of mine to double hook just to do it.

 

Also I had a issue on my 7.62 where the factory spring walked off the trigger leg on the safety side which is where the missing 2nd hook would have been. So that is another reason I want to try it. I did bend the spring outward but I would like to install the double hook to see if that would help prevent the spring from crossing over the trigger leg and walking, just a thought...

 

EDIT: typo

Edited August 10, 2012 by Another-Saiga-Fan

[Uncle Alvah 0]

When I looked on various websites for the Tapco G2 trigger, one seller noted that the double hook was not compatible with the Saiga platform, but his description of the single hook did not say that.

Is that simply because of the double hook needing the receiver slot cut or having to be filed to fit?

[mancat 2,368]

Yes.

[vulcan16 971]

When I looked on various websites for the Tapco G2 trigger, one seller noted that the double hook was not compatible with the Saiga platform, but his description of the single hook did not say that.

Is that simply because of the double hook needing the receiver slot cut or having to be filed to fit?

Yes

[Uncle Alvah 0]

I appreciate the info, folks, Tapco G2 Double Hook is ordered, and, hopefully, soon on the way!

I hate having to acquire parts "piecemeal", but thats what the budget dictates right now, so piecemeal it is!

[gunfun 3,931]

Cut a minimal step on the bottom of the second hook. It limits pre-travel, and file more away until it works perfectly with minimal engagement. Then put a fender washer under the back side, held by your trigger guard screw or rivet. you now have a short travel trigger. polish the engagement surfaces while preserving angles and you now have a smooth light match trigger, better than most any gunsmith will give you.

[su16a 84]

Single hook is the easiest to install. Double hook requires cutting a new slot , and gives a cleaner, crisper trigger pull. You can cut the new slot shorter then the right side (by a hair), it will act as a over travel limiter.

I kind of wish I revisited this thread yesterday and followed the advice make the new slot shorter but I free-hand cut the new slot with a dremmel. Looking at my cut it is a mirror image of the existing cut so no harm done. I took my 7.62x39 with the new double hook to the range yesterday and no issues at all. It was really not too much different than the single hook but I like the idea of the double hook. I just wish I did them this way from the start but I guess I needed to begin somewhere......

 

 

Cut a minimal step on the bottom of the second hook. It limits pre-travel, and file more away until it works perfectly with minimal engagement. Then put a fender washer under the back side, held by your trigger guard screw or rivet. you now have a short travel trigger. polish the engagement surfaces while preserving angles and you now have a smooth light match trigger, better than most any gunsmith will give you.

Since I have more than one Saiga I just ordered another double hook for my 308 and will follow the advice given above and in your post with the added suggestion with the washer. So that I understand and just to be clear what you are saying is slightly shim the rear trigger legs in addition to shorter cut slot to give it a shorter travel range correct?

 

Lastly two side notes. I got a new scope for my 308 and the range officer helped me dial in the new scope yesterday. I let him shoot the 308 with single hook and the first thing he said was "that trigger is amazing" so either way I don’t think we could lose but I’m likely going to end up upgrading at least three to the double hook system. As far as my comment in 9 August about the double hook preventing the spring from walking I could see now that will not make any difference. I did bent the spring as per another forum member and that issue seems to have been resolved

 

 

EDIT: here's my dremel job if anyone is interested

Edited September 2, 2012 by Another-Saiga-Fan

[devilfish13 6]

I used a single hook, no mods necessary (other than ripping off the trigger plate ). As I understand it, the conversion from double to single was to accommodate for the rate reducer when the AKM was developed... I may be mistaken. That said, I have never had a problem with the single-hook G2.

[gunfun 3,931]

Single hook is the easiest to install. Double hook requires cutting a new slot , and gives a cleaner, crisper trigger pull. You can cut the new slot shorter then the right side (by a hair), it will act as a over travel limiter.

I kind of wish I revisited this thread yesterday and followed the advice make the new slot shorter but I free-hand cut the new slot with a dremmel. Looking at my cut it is a mirror image of the existing cut so no harm done. I took my 7.62x39 with the new double hook to the range yesterday and no issues at all. It was really not too much different than the single hook but I like the idea of the double hook. I just wish I did them this way from the start but I guess I needed to begin somewhere......

 

 

Cut a minimal step on the bottom of the second hook. It limits pre-travel, and file more away until it works perfectly with minimal engagement. Then put a fender washer under the back side, held by your trigger guard screw or rivet. you now have a short travel trigger. polish the engagement surfaces while preserving angles and you now have a smooth light match trigger, better than most any gunsmith will give you.

Since I have more than one Saiga I just ordered another double hook for my 308 and will follow the advice given above and in your post with the added suggestion with the washer. So that I understand and just to be clear what you are saying is slightly shim the rear trigger legs in addition to shorter cut slot to give it a shorter travel range correct?

 

Lastly two side notes. I got a new scope for my 308 and the range officer helped me dial in the new scope yesterday. I let him shoot the 308 with single hook and the first thing he said was "that trigger is amazing" so either way I don’t think we could lose but I’m likely going to end up upgrading at least three to the double hook system. As far as my comment in 9 August about the double hook preventing the spring from walking I could see now that will not make any difference. I did bent the spring as per another forum member and that issue seems to have been resolved

 

 

EDIT: here's my dremel job if anyone is interested

 

 

Yes in the back, Not at all in the front!. You needn't cut any slot for the second hook. shave the underside of the trigger hook and leave the receiver alone. Scroll back up and look at the picture by ManCat. The notch in the underside he pictures is all you need up front.

[Brian M1 50]

As has been mentioned... double hook is not needed. Single hook is all you need. Single hook was adapted during the AKM (after realizing the double hook was not needed). You'll gain nothing from double hook (other than having to slot your reciever for the extra leg).

[gunfun 3,931]

Necessary, no. A free way of making your trigger crisper lighter and shorter- yes.

[vulcan16 971]

As has been mentioned... double hook is not needed. Single hook is all you need. Single hook was adapted during the AKM (after realizing the double hook was not needed). You'll gain nothing from double hook (other than having to slot your reciever for the extra leg).

Once you put a double hook trigger in a gun, you will understand what GunFun and others already know.

[avnate 335]

As has been mentioned... double hook is not needed. Single hook is all you need. Single hook was adapted during the AKM (after realizing the double hook was not needed). You'll gain nothing from double hook (other than having to slot your reciever for the extra leg).

 

 

It IS/WAS a design revision to make space for the rate reducer and sear in the AKM. Most if not all AK receiver flats made today are based off the AKM design so it still has one hook. Rarely does one see a stamped receiver that mimics the double hook of the milled receivers.

 

 

To expound on Jetmech and GunFuns post....

 

The pull is crisper on a double hook because the trigger is not binding on the axis pin by being locked on one side (AKA torquing). A double hook distributes the hammers force evenly to both hooks therefore negating this torquing effect.

 

Do you need a double in an AK shotgun? Probably not. But it would be more reliable should one hook break. Now a rifle.... If you are trying to achieve accuracy.... a smooth, light and crisp pull can and will make a huge improvement in accuracy with an experianced shooter.

 

It's all about personal taste and what works for you. Either stick with the drop in single or upgrade to a double.

[mancat 2,368]

I never thought of the side-load on the pin before. It's an interesting take on it and makes sense.

[gunfun 3,931]

The ability to easily eliminate excess pre-travel is what makes the deal for me. You can get a single hook pretty smooth too. Both of my shotguns have much smoother shorter throw triggers than the AR I tried this weekend, or standard AKs. Do they Need to be? No, but it is much nicer and costs exactly the same.

 

I have an RSA adjustable trigger that is extremely smooth, and that is single hook. The other one is a tuned G2 double hook that I stepped to allow only 3/16" of total travel.

[devilfish13 6]

Performed the double-hook compatibility mod that's been discussed in this thread tonight for my Vepr (removing material from the right hook for receiver clearance). It went very quickly and smoothly with a pneumatic die grinder and I have no regrets so far. I think that unless you have a practical reason to only want a single hook, there is no reason not to get a double unless you *absolutely* don't want to have to modify a new trigger. I sand/polish just about every part I get new to start, so it's no big deal to me; I just know there may be others who disagree. But for reduced fcg torquing and a better trigger pull... I'm happy to just grind on it a little bit. Definitely worth it.

 

I will note, however, that I had to remove a little more material than the picture indicates in order to get the clearance I needed to still have full trigger travel. I won't complain, there's still plenty of material there for it to be rock-solid stable.

Edited November 1, 2012 by SquidKitten

[gunfun 3,931]

The picture was showing a way to eliminate all that extra sloppy "full trigger travel"

 

As long as you are happy though. Any safe trigger install that doesn't have trigger slap is a right answer.

 

Beyond that it is a matter of taste and preference. I know what I like. Sounds like you got what you wanted.

[dayofruin 425]

I had my first experience with a double hook today. My M92 came with a double hook trigger and the pull is shorter and the break crisper than a single hook. I got to shoot it this evening and like its trigger a lot. That doesn't mean I'll be replacing my other singles but it is a noticeable difference.

[gunfun 3,931]

That would just be a matter of the brand of the trigger not the hook type. If you get a single and double by the same company, they will feel about the same unmodified.

[devilfish13 6]

Finally got a pic on my trigger job off my phone so here it be. You can see what I had to remove, but it gives full travel in my Vepr. Have to admit, it is a little bit more crisp. Has a little bit of a rough pull on travel, but I think I just need to polish the contact points on the hooks....

 

[Paulry 50]

Done em both, 6 of one, half dozen the other!

 

I'm a fan of "another saiga fan" or at least the Avitar!!!!!!!!!!!