Jump to content

Converted 5.45 recoil


Recommended Posts

Hi guys, first off I would like to thank you guys for all your help with my conversion. Now I am finished and have yet another question.

 

I took my rifle out yesterday and shot it for the first time fully converted and I noticed that the recoil was pretty substantial. It functioned flawlessly, but today my shoulder is actually red! I have read and seen videos where there is virtually no recoil to the weapon and I am curious if there are any ways to reduce it.

 

I have a bulgarian zig zag muzzle break on it that is threaded for 24mm. Even my mini 14 with no muzzle device kicked at least half the amount. I was using 7n6 surplus ammo. Is there anything else I can do to get the recoil down?

 

I would like to add that I am not a wuss, I have a 8mm mauser and hunt with a 30-06 and shoot geese with a 30-06. I want to know if this type of recoil is normal for this platform or if I have a defective muzzle break, or something to look for that may be wrong.

 

Do people just under exaggerate the recoil of the gun, or is there something wrong with mine?

 

I did polish the internals to make the gun cycle smoother, I don't think that would increase recoil though. If anyone has any suggestions or advice that would be great! Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The converted gun also has a much smaller buttplate area which seems to exaggerate the felt recoil......compared to the much larger buttplate area of the Saiga in its original form.

Edited by IPSC45
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh, that is interesting, I goes it could be the short stock I have on it. I may test out the stock with the original and see if I can tell a difference.

 

I have kind of a stupid question, how can I tell if it is over gassed. I honestly think my rifle has more recoil on it now that I have converted it, then it did when I first fired it. (Even though I have a break on it)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a better way would be to see if the bolt carrier is smashing on the rear trunion, causing metal distress at the trunion. Properly gassed, the bolt carrier should almost never strike the rear trunion. If it does, maybe once every 10 times....but not always.

 

Look closely--->

 

 

If it doesn't show up properly, look at youtube and enter " slow motion AK-47"

 

 

What did you change in the conversion that may even hint that now you may be over-gassed, where before you weren't?

Edited by IPSC45
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, I think it is over gassed, and I completely forgot to mention that I did not do the gas block conversion nor did I convert the gas tube. I like the saiga style tapco furniture I currently have on it so I figured I didn't need it. Could that be my problem? Do I need to get a ak 74 gas tube and gas block, or would that not matter.

 

Also thanks for all your input thus far, I may have to fire my rifle with the cover off to see if the rear is smashing against it. The rear of the piston did look a little scared for only 90 rounds through it from last time I looked. I may have to sharpie it to, I know the paint is missing from it as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Check the rear trunnion for bolt/boltcarrier marks. Pull the dust cover and cycle the action manually, you'll see where the contact will be made if it were to strike it. You'd see indentations that resemble the shape of the bolt and or bolt carrier.

You don't need to fire it with the dust cover off to tell, unless you have a high speed camera to record and look over the footage.

 

Changing out the gas tube and block won't alleviate an over gassing issue (porting/venting the gas tube may help but i am not certain of that). The only way i am aware of is to remove the gas block, measure the existing gas port, then weld it up and drill a new smaller hole in the barrel.

Removing an OE Saiga dimpled on GB, you wouldnt be able to reuse it once you removed it. So you'd have to remove the FSB as well to get the gas block off and replace both items with a pinned on gas block and FSB. It could turn into a bit of work.

 

You might also look into swapping in a heavier recoil spring, if that option is available (1911 recoil springs maybe)? This would be the easiest option to look into, IMHO.

 

This is all assuming it is indeed overgassed, which is entirely possible.

Edited by Mullet Man
Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't get is this... if the starting point was a brand new Saiga...why would we think it's overgassed? Wouldn't that aspect be correct from the Izhmash factory?

 

You would need a tape across the flats of the rear trunion ( if it breaks or doesn't break after firing)....to see if it hits hard....your eye couldn't catch it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys, I will try out the tape thing soon. I may try to use my dremel and drill small holes in the gas block first, then I may try a new spring. I like the ideas so far, I don't want to remove the gas block, my FSB was a pain in the rear to get on and it is pinned and pretty much stuck. So I think I may just start with my dremel, I can always get a new gas tube if need be.

 

Also one quick question can a ak 74 gas tube work in my siaga without changing out the gas block? Thanks for all the help so far!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that has me confused is that before the conversion the recoil was very mild, now after I have finished the conversion the felt recoil is way more. I have a bulgy zig zag break on it so I would think that the recoil should be less. Could the brake cause more gas to flow to the rear of the gun? Also I have the short warsaw stock on it. That wouldn't make that big of a difference would it? I know one member here mentioned that could be the case. The rear of my bolt is missing the paint on it from recent firing, and I can see the rear of the trunnion is also dinged up a little.

 

And if I chose to start drilling the gas block, where is the best place to do it? Should I drill on top front, the top rear of the tube or on the bottom? Or is it merely wherever I want, I was thinking the top front of the tube to direct the gas upward. What are your thoughts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The brake does not reduce recoil, just muzzle jump. When I added the bulgy zig zag to mine, I felt it put more of the recoil straight into my shoulder, but basically eliminated muzzle jump.

Easiest thing to do now would be to try it with the brake removed.

 

Also, rear trunnion contact is normal. 99% of AKs do it. That video is an exception. Watch every single other slo-mo AK bid and you will see that they all contact the rear trunnion.

Edited by W8lifter
Link to post
Share on other sites

How about one of these ........ http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/674094/buffer-technologies-recoil-buffer-ak-47-ak-74-valmet-galil-polyurethane

 

674094.jpgOr ....... one of these ....... http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-363/AK47-Saiga-Orignal-Recoil/Detailrecoil%20AK.jpgOr ......... try doing what w8lifter said and remove the brake and see if that helps, since that's the only change you have made.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll ask again.....what did you change from Saiga to AK?...to think the gun is now (maybe) overgassed...but before it maybe wasn't overgassed?. The only thing I can think of as an answer is if you dorked around with removing/re-installing the gas block. Did you? Just getting clarity before we chase other things........

 

The recoil buffer "softens" the blow to the rear...but consider this--> if "normal" is for the bolt *not* to hit the rear ( as I still maintain, although others here say otherwise)...then the buffer will *always* make contact,although softer. Maybe "always-but-softer"....is not better than hitting 1 time out of ten. If there are marks on the rear trunion on other guns, it maybe more a reason for when the shooter manually racks back the bolt hard (to hit the trunion),then for it to hit by shooting.

 

I would say,answer the question first about if there was gas block work done,then look at maybe a stronger spring (Wolf)...then after that... add some holes to the gas tube, although that probably won't do anything. All the "force" happens within the gasblock ( an "impulse load" on the piston, like a "slap"...there is hardly any residual gas pressure in the gas tube afterwards).

Edited by IPSC45
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya I didn't do any gas block or gas tube work. I just ordered a recoil spring from wolf, so we shall see what happens next. I have read a report that someone had a similar issue because their saiga gas block vent hole into barrel was too big. (Im guessing that is a rare problem)

 

I can easily see the indentation from where the rear of the firing pin carrier has been striking the trunnion. So I know it is slapping the rear of the rifle, hopefully it is just a spring issue. I will report whenever I get it, it may take a while to get here, but I will report the results. Thanks again!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

How many threads are exposed on your piston where it screws into the bolt carrier? An AKs gas system is somewhat adjustable via screwing the piston in or out of the carrier.

 

They should be set right at the factory so they kick the empty cases out a predetermined distance but that doesn't mean Ivan didn't have a drink to many on his lunch break...

 

Anyways, If you come to the conclusion that your gun is overgassed and your new recoil spring doesn't help then you can adjust your gas piston.

 

You have to either drift the pin out or drill out the dimples (not looking at mine but I think saiga carriers are dimpled) that lock the piston in place in the carrier. Be careful to only drill out the dimple and to not cut to deeply into the threads of the piston (you will a little bit, that is ok).

 

Now then, screwing the piston IN to the carrier reduces the time that the gas has to act on the piston before it is vented off (dwell time), thereby decreasing the force imparted onto the carrier.

 

Screwing the piston OUT increases dwell time and imparts more force onto the carrier.

 

If it where me, I would screw the piston all the way in and test fire it (5 - 10 rounds) and then back the piston out 1 turn and test fire and repeat until the empties where thrown out about 8 ft or so.

 

Once you find the sweet spot for your piston, drill all the way thru the piston thru the holes you made drilling out the dimples in the carrier and drive in an appropriately sized roll pin to lock the piston in place.

 

Just something to consider...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Joshman says.... " I have read a report that someone had a similar issue because their saiga gas block vent hole into barrel was too big. (Im guessing that is a rare problem.."

 

OK.... but *again*...it wouldn't answer the question why do you feel it is an issue NOW after the conversion...and not BEFORE? Let's not get sidetracked with issues that don't make sense in the context of the problem you are facing. If that was an issue you have....you would reasonably expect this to occur both before and after your conversion.

Edited by IPSC45
Link to post
Share on other sites

well if nothing changed with your GB, piston etc.. all you did was move the trigger and change the buttstock and add a brake, correct? . if it was overgassed before, it will still be overgassed now. same as if it wasnt. try shooting it without the brake and go from there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...