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Bad day at the range


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Took my new Saiga 12 to the range yesterday. to say I was disappointed would be an under statement. Prior to yesterday I cycled the bolt 300 or more times to help break it in. I also added a Tac-47 gas plug. Following the instructions after each shot, I adjusted the screw 1/2 turn until it bottomed out and it still wont cycle low brass shot shells. I've only put 80 rounds out so far (5 high brass that worked great) 75 low brass with only about 1/3 of them even begining to exit the chamber, the rest staying chambered. Being a new auto shotgun, I wont get too exicted until I put another 200/300 rounds through it, but I was hoping for a little better reliability out of it. Is this typical, or did I get a lemon?

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Put the standard gas plug back in and try it.

 

Also, what do you call "low brass"?

If it's Wally World cheapo shells, they don't work in all guns, in fact, Remington refuses to honor their warranty if you use them in one of their guns.

 

Go with standard small game loads and try it. They're usually on sale somewhere too.

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Some shells were Wally World, but some were Federal. I just bought a carton of Remington for tomorrow. Hopefully have better luck. I did back the plug to the detent. I watched the U-tube on installing and adjusting the Tac-47 plug. Serial Nr. X12 so it must be a new shotgun. I'll try the Rem shells and if they don't work any better, I'll replace the old plug back in. Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.

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Took my new Saiga 12 to the range yesterday. to say I was disappointed would be an under statement. Prior to yesterday I cycled the bolt 300 or more times to help break it in. I also added a Tac-47 gas plug. Following the instructions after each shot, I adjusted the screw 1/2 turn until it bottomed out and it still wont cycle low brass shot shells. I've only put 80 rounds out so far (5 high brass that worked great) 75 low brass with only about 1/3 of them even begining to exit the chamber, the rest staying chambered. Being a new auto shotgun, I wont get too exicted until I put another 200/300 rounds through it, but I was hoping for a little better reliability out of it. Is this typical, or did I get a lemon?

 

Dude get an MD plug and do it manually

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put it back to how you got the gun to start. check to see what kinds of ammo cause failures with the factory magazine . Then decide if you want to have the repairs warranty covered . Many people say its not meant to fire the wall world junk but I have not personally seen any literature from izmash that states that. If you decide to do the repairs yourself it can be done so easily if you are mechanically inclined an can use Google to find certain remedies on this great forum.

Edited by OBITUARY
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Took my new Saiga 12 to the range yesterday. to say I was disappointed would be an under statement. Prior to yesterday I cycled the bolt 300 or more times to help break it in. I also added a Tac-47 gas plug. Following the instructions after each shot, I adjusted the screw 1/2 turn until it bottomed out and it still wont cycle low brass shot shells. I've only put 80 rounds out so far (5 high brass that worked great) 75 low brass with only about 1/3 of them even begining to exit the chamber, the rest staying chambered. Being a new auto shotgun, I wont get too exicted until I put another 200/300 rounds through it, but I was hoping for a little better reliability out of it. Is this typical, or did I get a lemon?

 

Dude get an MD plug and do it manually

Whatever you do.....don't follow BOB's advice.

Get the gun running right with the stock plug and go from there.

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First return to original condition purchased. This is what I would do . Remove gas regulator and puck ; inspect how many gas ports there are and if they are obstructed . if obstructed what is the obstruction, = GAS BLOCK D MOD , OR NOT DRILLED CORRECT OR GAS PORT SIZE. You can use a dental pick, o ring pick or something similar w Iith a flashlight to look down the barrel if you can't feel how far it went. If the gas system appears normal i would look into polishing and profiling the hammer,bolt carrier,bolt, polishing the rails also . There are a few vendors that perform bolt carrier,bolt,,hamer profiling and polishing . Also forgot to mention if you don't shoulder it correctly you can have alot of cycling issues.

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First return to original condition purchased. This is what I would do . Remove gas regulator and puck ; inspect how many gas ports there are and if they are obstructed . if obstructed what is the obstruction, = GAS BLOCK D MOD , OR NOT DRILLED CORRECT OR GAS PORT SIZE. You can use a dental pick, o ring pick or something similar w Iith a flashlight to look down the barrel if you can't feel how far it went. If the gas system appears normal i would look into polishing and profiling the hammer,bolt carrier,bolt, polishing the rails also . There are a few vendors that perform bolt carrier,bolt,,hamer profiling and polishing . Also forgot to mention if you don't shoulder it correctly you can have alot of cycling issues.

I quit doing the "D"ring mod and drill the gas block with a 11/32 bit, through the HG mounting hole.

Seems to work better, and quicker to accomplish. Checking the correct gas port size is good advice.

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+1,000 with jetmech but I do profile the hole. It may not be necessary but that's me. Evl where are you? I thought you be chiming in as soon as the D-mod got mentioned. Don't make me lose faith bro!

Edited by 45Bretired
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Well I replaced the stock plug, which made no difference. Low brass wont feed or eject on #1 setting and the high brass stove pipes on the first and fifth round, but cycles the middle three just fine. Put the Tac-47 plug back in and same results. Used a dental pick on the three gas ports, and they seem fine. As reliable as my AKMs are, I just wasn't expecting this kind of trouble with this shotgun. Sooo I will try polishing the rails and anything else that might help. Hate to think that my Saiga-12 will end up a safe queen until the big sale. Can anybody recommend a good gunsmith that can get this shotgun up and running. It was supposed to be my home defense weapon, but I sure can't use it the way it is.

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You're in Texas, send it off to Tac47 industries and have them go over it. No more problems. You can experiment and do it yourself after a lot of trial and error or you can pay a professional gunsmith to get it up to the level of a self defense shotgun.

 

Good luck!

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Where in Texs are you located.? If you are close to NW Houston, I can get it running in a day.

I'm in San Angelo, not exactly close to Houston. Wish I was next door. I'd appreciate any other advice you may have. I'm not real comfortable with my skill level to get involved with actually taking anything apart. I'm not bad at taking things apart, its the putting all the parts back where and the way they belong that kicks my ass.

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They all need work to reach what I would call "acceptable" bulk pack birdshot reliability (95% reliability with a quality stick mag). Yes, your Saiga 12's performance is typical. Don't get frustrated.... get to reading ;)

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Well I replaced the stock plug, which made no difference. Low brass wont feed or eject on #1 setting and the high brass stove pipes on the first and fifth round, but cycles the middle three just fine. Put the Tac-47 plug back in and same results. Used a dental pick on the three gas ports, and they seem fine. As reliable as my AKMs are, I just wasn't expecting this kind of trouble with this shotgun. Sooo I will try polishing the rails and anything else that might help. Hate to think that my Saiga-12 will end up a safe queen until the big sale. Can anybody recommend a good gunsmith that can get this shotgun up and running. It was supposed to be my home defense weapon, but I sure can't use it the way it is.

Setting #1 is for high brass.

Since the Auto Plug screw is bottomed out, it would be safe to say your gun is under gassed.

Knocking the gas block off is easy, just use a 1/8"roll pin punch to remove the pins.

Also put a piece of tape on the plunger pin to stop the spring from flying out when the roll pins are removed.

Check the gas port sizes are correct depending if it's a 3 or 4 port barrel.

3 ports can go out to .093 and if my memory is correct, 4 ports should be .076.

Don't be scared, just do it. Plenty of tutorials are found on this forum, and check YouTube also.

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I thought some here would like his comment in reference to the 'reliability kit'.

 

"Did you get one of these kits for your Saiga? Did it make it run better? I would think widening the gas ports and the CSS kit would be good together. You can't get too reliable when the crap hits the fan! "

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I thought some here would like his comment in reference to the 'reliability kit'.

 

"Did you get one of these kits for your Saiga? Did it make it run better? I would think widening the gas ports and the CSS kit would be good together. You can't get too reliable when the crap hits the fan! "

I wonder if it really is bliss?

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Well I knocked off the gas block and opened up the gas ports a little. I just drilled it one size bigger, I didn't want to make them too big. Also I did polish the rails and bolt carrier. Going out to the range later. We'll see what happens. I want to thank everybody for all the advise. Just wondering, if this is such a common problem, why isn't it fixed at the factory? Are Russian shotshells more powerful then ours? Surely they have a quality control department. Anyway, thanks again everybody.

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OK, back from the range. Still not cycling low brass, BUUUUTTTT, at lest now it is stove-piping low brass and high brass works like a champ. So I removed the gas block again and reamed out the gas ports a little larger. Hopefully I'll be able to get to the range again tomorrow. Its looking better each time.

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OK, back from the range. Still not cycling low brass, BUUUUTTTT, at lest now it is stove-piping low brass and high brass works like a champ. So I removed the gas block again and reamed out the gas ports a little larger. Hopefully I'll be able to get to the range again tomorrow. Its looking better each time.

 

Maybe when you read the multiple threads about drilling your gas ports to resolve reliability issues you should have drilled them to the recommended size?

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