Slugs For Cheap

[AJ Dual 43]

FYI, I have tried a hand held pipe cutter and it simply crushes the shell instead of cutting it. I don't know why since I bought it new an dpresumeably sharp, but I couldn't get it to work on shotgun shells.

 

Oh well, just a thought. I had seen the PVC pipe cutter being used on other shotshell reloading threads in other forums, however it was to "reclaim the components" when the hull got FUBAR'ed and was deformed during reloading/crimping etc. And in that case, they were cutting just above the brass where the shotshell was much more supported, and were only interested in recovering the powder, primer, wad, and shot because the hull was already a loss.

 

I thought it might work for snipping the end off cleanly, since others had already been dumping shot by plier-crusing the shot & wad area already. Oh well.

 

Kineti-Dump^® in it's infancy:

1-3/4"x10" black steel pipe (handle)

2-3/4" black caps

1-3/4"x3" nipple (shot end)

1-3/4"x3" brass nipple (shell end) the brass was closer to fitting the o.d. of the shell

1-3/4" brass cap (over the shell)

2-garden hose washers for the brass cap to keep shell from bouncing

 

Worked very well with one good solid hit to a solid surface. Be sure to tighten the shot end nipple and cap very securely

 

This is beautiful work.

 

Now I'm just thinking aloud as to how it could be made even "faster" since screwing and unscrewing the cap holding the shell base in for the down-swing would be a bit time-consuming. Something like interrupted threads? Or maybe grinding down that end-cap so only 1-2 turns of the thread actually need engage, since the down-swing retention isn't very stressed.

 

I'd probably want both methods. The kinetic pipe fitting hammer for the workshop, but still pick hulls open with an awl, because I can do that quietly sitting next to Mrs. Dual watching TV, so I'm not in the basement workshop "ignoring her" and getting in the doghouse.

Edited October 14, 2012 by AJ Dual

[rickyblaze 8]

FYI, I have tried a hand held pipe cutter and it simply crushes the shell instead of cutting it. I don't know why since I bought it new an dpresumeably sharp, but I couldn't get it to work on shotgun shells.

 

Oh well, just a thought. I had seen the PVC pipe cutter being used on other shotshell reloading threads in other forums, however it was to "reclaim the components" when the hull got FUBAR'ed and was deformed during reloading/crimping etc. And in that case, they were cutting just above the brass where the shotshell was much more supported, and were only interested in recovering the powder, primer, wad, and shot because the hull was already a loss.

 

I thought it might work for snipping the end off cleanly, since others had already been dumping shot by plier-crusing the shot & wad area already. Oh well.

 

Kineti-Dump^® in it's infancy:

1-3/4"x10" black steel pipe (handle)

2-3/4" black caps

1-3/4"x3" nipple (shot end)

1-3/4"x3" brass nipple (shell end) the brass was closer to fitting the o.d. of the shell

1-3/4" brass cap (over the shell)

2-garden hose washers for the brass cap to keep shell from bouncing

 

Worked very well with one good solid hit to a solid surface. Be sure to tighten the shot end nipple and cap very securely

 

This is beautiful work.

 

Now I'm just thinking aloud as to how it could be made even "faster" since screwing and unscrewing the cap holding the shell base in for the down-swing would be a bit time-consuming. Something like interrupted threads? Or maybe grinding down that end-cap so only 1-2 turns of the thread actually need engage, since the down-swing retention isn't very stressed.

 

I'd probably want both methods. The kinetic pipe fitting hammer for the workshop, but still pick hulls open with an awl, because I can do that quietly sitting next to Mrs. Dual watching TV, so I'm not in the basement workshop "ignoring her" and getting in the doghouse.

 

There are a lot of areas the hammer can be improved on from the prototype I agree. The rubber garden hose washer in the cap take up a lot of the space when you screw it on and off. I my self am going to work on one made of some sort of plastic or polymer (Delrin?) as the metal hammer is heavier than it needs to be for shot reclamation. It's the weight of the shot that over comes the crimp not the weight of the hammer,plus being metal it is loud. And I understand the workshop and together time with the Mrs.

[Squishy 1,149]

Warming up the pot, gonna be cranking out the 7/8 oz sluggers soon...

Edited October 14, 2012 by Squishy

[Squishy 1,149]

Stayed with it until around 6:30. I let the pot get too low a couple of times which meant a whole load had to get up to temp. My advice to anyone getting into this is don't let the pot get much more than half empty, you can keep pouring while the new stuff is melting. And, I only burned myself 2 or 3 times. Also be aware of what's on the floor under the table you use. If a freshly dropped slug or a piece of sprue hits the floor and there's carpet or anything else that might melt the still very hot lead will melt it.

 

I was somewhat surprised at the final count, it didn't seem I'd donethat much but I got in the groove and lost track I guess.

 

 

645 7/8 oz slugs. That's about 35 lbs of lead by my calculation. Won't be needing to cast any for a while.

[RED333 1,025]

When you get in the grove they come out faster than you think, as you see.

You dont have enough, LOL wait till you start shooting then, they are so much fun to shoot

at a piece of steel, the noise is something to hear. The steel will have to be at least a 1/4" thick.

If you can come up with a trap and recycle you lead all the better.

Saw this on another forum.

Bullet trap, 6" x 24" steel pipe, 2 sheets of 1/4 x 24" x 36" steel for sides

2 sheets of 1/4" x 24" x 36" steel for top and bottom.

Cut the pipe long ways 2" wide, you are making a slot top the leanth of the pipe.

Lay the bottom down flat on the ground.

Stand the sides to funnel back to the pipe, lay the top on.

To get this.

This is not mine http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1435831&postcount=536

[Squishy 1,149]

Well I've got a 1 oz mold on the way so it may be a while before I do the 7/8 again. I'm going to see how much meat is in the "head" of the 1 oz...I might experiment with making hollow points out of them, or some of them.

 

I hear you about hitting metal, confirms a hit and it sounds cool I'm sure. One thing about this deal this guy made;

 

"Works great as long as you don't want it moved"

 

I don't have a dedicated spot that I own or control so I'd need something that could be move fairly easily. What about a wooden box (the sides) with a piece of plate slanted like this |/| <----- shot so it would deflect downward...just an I D. I need to move back to the country....

[RED333 1,025]

If you go to that trhread and read the thing, 31 pages, a guy built one on a trailer.

The link used 3/4 steel, 1/4 will be fine for slug, you dont have to weld it, just bolt it together.

[Groovy Mike 36]

Finally got some pics. It is strange. Seating the slug inside the hull and wad works great but the same wad outside the hull doesn't seem to fit the slug at all!

 

here's a link

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/gallery/album/1108-gms-album/

[Squishy 1,149]

Finally got some pics. It is strange. Seating the slug inside the hull and wad works great but the same wad outside the hull doesn't seem to fit the slug at all!

 

here's a link

 

http://forum.saiga-1...1108-gms-album/

 

I saw the photos and I've got to believe something's getting crushed in a way that it's not supposed to really. I assume you see no bulging of the shell. With the ones I have even if the wad didn't have the vertical "ribs", it appears the bottom of the cup is simply too small for the slug. After you've crimped the shell have you taken one back apart to look at the wad? And I assume you've shot them and they work ok. Not a big deal really as there are other shells to use for this but I still can't see how it could work. Here's a vid a guy did using Remington Pheasant loads for the higher powder charge. He replaces the wad for the reasons we've talked about. I assume this load uses the same wad as the 7 1/2 and 8 shot does;

 

http://youtu.be/0kvSvHmdLCk

[Groovy Mike 36]

They fire fine, and do not bulge the hull but I have not pulled one apart and now you have made me curious. I will take a look when I get home tonight.....

[Groovy Mike 36]

No pics uploaded yet (will do that tomorrow- God willing) but I found something that I never would have expected when I pulled the load apart.

 

This is pretty cool. The lead slug is grooved by the ridges in the wad. The ridges pushed grooves right into the soft lead when I pushed the slug down into the wad. I am casting slugs with lead pipe so it is 100% soft lead. It takes the shape of the wad inside the hull without deforming the hull. I am only speculating but I bet I am getting good accuracy because the slug is expanding when fired and forcing the wad tight against the barrel walls as the slug and wad travel down the bore.

[Squishy 1,149]

Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Plastic making a groove in lead. I'm still curious about the bottom of the cup as it appeared to me that is is smaller than the diameter of the base of the slug, did the slug seat all the way? Does it appear the slug formed to it also?

[Groovy Mike 36]

Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Plastic making a groove in lead. I'm still curious about the bottom of the cup as it appeared to me that is is smaller than the diameter of the base of the slug, did the slug seat all the way? Does it appear the slug formed to it also?

 

It doesn't look like it seats all the way to the base. I have no idea what effect that would have on ballistics, accuracy, or pressure. I guess it would make sense that the air between the wad base and the slug would be compressed into the hollow base and expand it though. Maybe I have stumbled onto the missing link ninja element of shotgun slug accuracy from a smooth bore!woohoo this calls for a drink! - wait too late - a second drink!

[Deadeye 325]

_{http://www.ebay.com/itm/Home-made-Cast-slug-rifling-swaging-die-for-Lyman-slugs-/330808857772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d05be94ac}

 

 

_{I thought someone might be interested in this}

[AJ Dual 43]

That IS interesting. But only because of my other shotguns like my Mossberg 590 and Rem 870 I have as well...

 

"Rifled" slugs don't get significant spin to them, and they still have to be weight-forward Foster style shuttlecocks to stabilize. The grooves allow them to swage with less velocity loss through tight forcing cones in some bores, and also pass through chokes easier.

 

So possibly not much benefit for a Saiga which is usually cylinder bore, unless you've got a muzzle device choke on it, and I imagine most of us use adjustable polychoke style ones you can just crank out to cylinder anyway.

 

Granted I can remove chokes in my other shotguns, but being the traditional internal style requiring a wrench or spanner, it's a PITA, and being able to shoot my slugs through them in a pinch without having to worry about bulging a barrel or choke would be handy.

[gunfun 3,931]

yes that is interesting. I would rather have a mold with rings in it though to save time. Rings around the slug do the same thing as "rifling", and are found on many fosters for the same real purpose. The spiraled rifling has just become more popular because people think it may help.

 

That was a nifty bullet trap above. However, I don't always have access to a welder and all of my targets have to be portable and easily stored in a smallish apartment. It seems to me that the thing could be done more simply but with a few losses by putting a couple of hinged legs on the top of a 1/4" plate so that it leans toward you at a 45* angle. Then put a sandbag in a tray underneath it to catch the downward ricochets.You can sift the sand periodically for lead.

 

I was thinking about that kineti-dump hammer, and it reminded me of friends who work at the coffee shops. They knock out grounds into a knock box. Why not leave the bottom open and take a bucket and put a piece of slit hose around the rim and smack the hammer handle on the rim of the bucket. That would save you having to dump out your hammer every swing. Also, maybe make a pivoting piece of plastic from the side of a 5 gallon bucket as kind of a spring clip to hold the shell in. Secure it with one screw so that you flick it sideways with your thum to drop out the shell, drop in a new shell and flick it back. plastic can't strike the primer, so you should be safe. That would be as simple as screwing on the pipe cap, but saves time.

[Groovy Mike 36]

pics of the slug grooved by the wad now loaded in the gallery. It looks like the end result is very similar to what that tool on ebay was designed to do!

 

 

 

 

[Squishy 1,149]

pics of the slug grooved by the wad now loaded in the gallery. It looks like the end result is very similar to what that tool on ebay was designed to do!

 

Well it worked fine for you but wouldn't for me so I'm just happy to get the whole Remington Game Load thing out of the Twilight Zone. And that must be some soft lead.

[20nickels 21]

Be careful with the wheel weights. They USED to be lead. Most are zinc now. A little zinc in the pot will RUIN the lot.

Try to cut them with pliers. If it cuts it's lead, if not it's zinc. Lead will melt and zinc will float @ 300 degrees I think. Don't melt the zinc! It will ruin the batch.

 

I use Kroil as a non-stick agent and Bull plate sprue lube. Polish your mould, the slugs will drop easier. Google Lee menting.

[20nickels 21]

do you roll your own buckshot guys lube the shot withanything?

I have not but a friend tumbles them in Graphite.

[20nickels 21]

Yes the kinetic energy from swiftly moving the shell forward then abruptly stopping it is released through the shot exiting the front of the shell. An object in motion tends to stay in motion, Newton. Here's what an acual bullet puller would look like http://www.cabelas.c...-puller-3.shtml

 

There are improvements I will make eventually but this was a free piece of pipe laying around so I used it in this rudimentary form.

Excellent idea but please use a material that doesn't spark.

 

Edit; PVC DIY kinetic bullet puller.

http://www.calguns.n...d.php?p=9480361

Is there anything pvc won't do lol.

 

I just made a 12ga shot puller out of 3/4" PVC like the one linked. It was stoooopid easy and it works. Take a 12ga shell to the hardware store and you will see there is several ways to configure this. 12ga shell OD is 13/16" fwiw.

Edited October 16, 2012 by 20nickels

[Squishy 1,149]

1 oz mold came today. I want to make some and see if I can make a hollow point...I'll need to get a bigger drill bit than I have on hand. Any thoughts about this? GF? GM?

[gunfun 3,931]

Not an expert, but Foster slugs have a tendency to splat and become doughnuts anyway. I don't think there is a need to make them hollow point. Also they get their stability and better aerodynamic properties from being weight forward. Taking that weight out will make them more prone to tumble.

[gunfun 3,931]

Since the point of hollow points is to expand to an optimum ratio of diameter per mass to achieve perfect penetration, this is unneeded Shotgun slugs are all ready over expanded per mass before they leave the barrel. that's why they have hollow bases or funky shapes, so that the mass column is appropriate to the frontal area. (Meplat?Ogive? My vocabulary has evaporated.) There is more space in the shell than can really be made use of. Your barrel and shoulder cannot handle a ~3oz cylinder of solid lead with a tip that expands upon impact.

 

To put it differently they start at ~.67 caliber and have to reduce weight, as opposed to say a .308 rifle bullet which has plenty of mass, but very little frontal surface area. Upon impact it is designed to expand to an optimum ratio for the desired penetration.

 

This is why you see European slugs made from materials like brass and steel that are lighter than lead. A rifle bullet is trying to maximize density for a fixed volume. A shotgun slug takes up so much space that you are using hollows or an hour glass shaper or other things to decrease mass per volume. The main purpose of lead is to be dense. Deformation is both an advantage and a disadvantage. Since that is not critical to a shotgun slug, they can take advantages of some of the properties of other materials for precise controlled expansion, or complete resistance to expansion. They can also make a tailed design to improve the terrible aerodynamics of the projectile.

[Squishy 1,149]

Yeah but hollow points look cool.

[RED333 1,025]

Yeah but hollow points look cool.

, Yes they do, but not needed.

[Squishy 1,149]

10 - 4 In deference to the expert opinions rendered here I officially abandon plans to drill holes in homemade slugs.

[Groovy Mike 36]

Agree, not needed. but have fun casting!

[gunfun 3,931]

I would like some kind of mold that would make a slug you could snap a breneke style tail into. They could be even cheaper than shot cups since there would be less plastic. That would mean improved accuracy, and slightly faster assembly. The slug should be heavy, and have bands or grooves so that it can deform through chokes i.e. rifled slugs

 

Or possibly something like the lyman "sabot type" at ~.670. the thin rim can swage through the constriction. If the base portion was smaller diameter, a shotcup tail could be manufactured that would snap on surrounding the base, yet still leave the slug loadable in standard wads.

 

If you want a custom mold, here is one I wish the manufacturers sold.

 

 

Dang. I should have made the tail/gas seal a different colour. As pictured, the top is the slug, and the bottom is the tail. They are shown as separate, not as snapped together.

[kindapointless 22]

Well it looks like things are coming along in the slug world. I have been playing with this for a while and have found accurate molds will make whatever you want. Im enjoying the 770 grain thumper but they have all the way to 900 grain. Gun fun you should email that drawing to that place and he will knock one out for you relativly cheap. Im trying to come up with the funds for a swagging set up so i can copper jacket my lil project made just for saigas. The beauty of it all is we need not follow the masses when we get this far in. Pointed slugs with a decent bc will work nicely.