Slugs For Cheap

[Squishy 1,149]

I'm still wondering about this but it got lost in the shuffle;

 

"Winchester Super Speed Xtra #8 game loads. I notice these are rated at 1350 FPS which indicates to me given the same payload (1 oz) these might have a tad more juice than the 1200 FPS Win Universals and the 1290 FPS Federals. And they're priced the same $5.97 per box."

 

Is there enough of a difference to make the Super Speed Xtras the preferable choice for making Birdslugs?

[ctd 20]

Well 50 cheep slugs and a 50l drum target sure makes for fun on the range

 

Now to load up a slab or two of ammo....

[gunfun 3,931]

 

 

You get a feel for it. Back when I cast a lot I would keep a tamp cloth near to cool the mold. Normally I'd cool when a spur cut to easy, you can feel that difference.

 

I wore out a couple of the Lee molds and a couple sharpshoot molds, totally trashed a lee bottom dripper. Probably got 4k slugs on my first lee mold before it was totally done. The sharpshooter needs to have the pin redrilled one size up since its loose now.

 

The sharpshooter mold I have was altered to make one long spur, and my brother made a shear that cut the spurs off in a single slice.

 

 

For cheap reloads:

Wolf shotgun primers are 2 cents or less a piece in bulk.

Powder should be selected that uses fewest grains, and is still cheap.

Shotcups, Nobel sports made a really heavy duty shotcup, very cheap.

.

 

Recipes? commercial data they are derived from? Please?

Edited October 25, 2012 by GunFun

[Squishy 1,149]

I'm headed home to NC today for my nephew's wedding Saturday and I'm going to stay a few days. I'll have plenty of time so I'm going to start a sister thread to this dealing with reloading empty hulls. Also my brother in law is a reloader from way back so I'm going to consult with him and get some tips. As I've never done this I think documenting the process will be useful to those who like me have no experience with this. I'm also going to take my melter and see what I can do to get that 65lb bar of lead I have converted into a useable form.

 

Stay tuned....

[Groovy Mike 36]

Mike, thanks for posting the chart, I've used it for some time. Was there something specific you wanted to show? If so, I don't want to miss it.

 

I was posting it to show how my BBB steel shot (.19 inches diameter) compared to your .31 diameter bearings. Looks to me like they are about "O" buck.

[Squishy 1,149]

Between #1 (.30) and "0" (.32). I'm going to get some and see how they do.

[Squishy 1,149]

I've been making some Birdslugs with some 7/8oz projectiles I already had cast and I noticed something I think would be useful. This is, the depth of the cup from the top edge (when crimped) to the bottom of the cup. First I used the Winchester "Super Speed" Xtra shells I mentioned before that are rated at 1350FPS with a one ounce load. With these, the 7/8 Lee slug fits with a very slight bulge in the top of the shell once recrimped, no room for anything larger.

 

I obtained some Federal Field & Target - Multi Purpose Load for gratuitous mag dumping and I thought I'd stick some slugs in them. I really noticed a big difference in the depth of the cup. So I got out the calipers to document the difference.

• Federal Field And Target - Multi Purpose Load - 1 1/8 oz shot - #8 - 1200FPS - Cup Depth .93"
  
• Winchester Super Speed Xtra - Game Load - 1 oz shot - #8 - 1350FPS - Cup Depth .65"
  

Of course it makes sense that a shell designed for a lighter load would have a more shallow cup. But if you're buying shells to make birdslugs and you have the 1oz size at least one brand/type won't work. So from this I'd say it's clear that the Winchester SS Xtra is an acceptable choice for 7/8oz Lee slugs but would not work for the Lee 1oz and most likely the Lyman 1oz slugs. The Federal F&T Multi Purpose could probably take any slug you'd want to put in it as long as it didn't exceed 1 1/8oz.

 

At some point I'd like to do a table showing this data for all the "cheap" bulk shells but for now here's the dope on these two.

 

This shows the extra space in the Federal F&T shell with a 7/8oz Lee slug;

 

Edited October 30, 2012 by Squishy

[Groovy Mike 36]

And then we have to see if they will hit anything!

[Squishy 1,149]

Well so far in the absence of anything remotely resembling scientific testing the Win Universals have been accurate at around 20 yards but that's not really reaching out. I guess it would be good to find the effective limits of this "cheap" slug thing but I really hope a rifled barrel becomes available at some point to test the capabilities of the platform without the smooth bore limitations.

[mike12345 18]

I'm still wondering about this but it got lost in the shuffle;

 

 

 

"Winchester Super Speed Xtra #8 game loads. I notice these are rated at 1350 FPS which indicates to me given the same payload (1 oz) these might have a tad more juice than the 1200 FPS Win Universals and the 1290 FPS Federals. And they're priced the same $5.97 per box."

 

Is there enough of a difference to make the Super Speed Xtras the preferable choice for making Birdslugs?

 

wallmart had federal game loads for $4.60 25rd box or 250rd case for $46 last time i checked.

 

I guess i would question the safety of making these into slugs though because all slugs are highbrass. sure if the payload is the same it "should" be safe but I've never seen a low brass slug.

Edited October 31, 2012 by mike123456

[rickyblaze 8]

You're still using the same weight payload or smaller with the birdslug so there is no difference to the shell casing. Even so the shell casing is supported by the gun's chamber and that's what contains the pressure not the brass. I thought I read somewhere that the high brass and low brass were only made for identification purposes, could be wrong .

[Squishy 1,149]

It's been said here and elsewhere that the whole high brass and low brass thing has lost it's original meaning over the years as modern hulls do not need the same level of reinforcement as paper hulls of old. All I can say is that I've sent approximately 500+ of these "Birdslugs" down range without issue other than hull deformation which occurred in the shot removal process, read: my technique. And there are others like Red333 and Groovy Mike who've been doing this for some time.

 

The original intent of this whole substitution thing for me at least was to be able to run my Saiga 12 at a local indoor range that only allows slugs. I am certain that for longer range applications like hunting it would be worth it to go to the extra trouble and expense to reload from scratch or just buy factory slugs as you most likely won't be shooting hundreds of them.

[shoot2thrillu 10]

dont know if you have tried but if you know of any gun and game clubs that have trap shoots or clay shoots there is a very high chance there is someone there that sells lead. i know of 3 people in a 3 county area that sell lead in shot form 25lbs for 30 bucks. little easier then goin around asking for scrap lead

 

those trap guys are really picky

[oih 3]

Want to keep this thread alive, so I'll just report I've bough a pound of Longshot, Winchester 209 primers and some "Claybuster Shotshell Wads 12 Gauge CB1114-12 (Replaces WAA12F114) 1-1/4 oz". Planning to try a Lyman Sabot receipe from the Lyman #5 reloading manual. Just have to find the time to cast som slugs.

 

Øivind

[Squishy 1,149]

Want to keep this thread alive, so I'll just report I've bough a pound of Longshot, Winchester 209 primers and some "Claybuster Shotshell Wads 12 Gauge CB1114-12 (Replaces WAA12F114) 1-1/4 oz". Planning to try a Lyman Sabot receipe from the Lyman #5 reloading manual. Just have to find the time to cast som slugs.

 

Øivind

 

I'm there with ya, just ordered some supplies too, good luck and keep us posted.

[gunfun 3,931]

Want to keep this thread alive, so I'll just report I've bough a pound of Longshot, Winchester 209 primers and some "Claybuster Shotshell Wads 12 Gauge CB1114-12 (Replaces WAA12F114) 1-1/4 oz". Planning to try a Lyman Sabot receipe from the Lyman #5 reloading manual. Just have to find the time to cast som slugs.

 

Øivind

 

Let us know if those wads have a flat floor in the shotcup. Their AA12 equivalents have a concave floor and slugs don't seat the same as in the real AA12.

[oih 3]

Let us know if those wads have a flat floor in the shotcup. Their AA12 equivalents have a concave floor and slugs don't seat the same as in the real AA12.

 

Will do, but it takes time for midway.no to deliver - it's just a front, no local storage, saves me customs hassle, but it takes time, probably a week or more.

 

Øivind

[oih 3]

Received my CB1114-12 wads today. As for the floor; it's not concave, it's flat. Flat isn't exaclty accurat either; there is a flat floor recess in the middle with the number "15" in relieff. Looks like my slugs will rest their skirts on the ledge that isn't part of the recess without any problem. Recess is very shallow. Easier to show:

 

Øivind

[Squishy 1,149]

The Winchester "Pink" wads I have (WAA12SL) and the wad from a stock Winchester Universal shell have this recess too. Not sure it's enough to be of consequence.

[gunfun 3,931]

Thanks. The ledge was what I was concerned about.

 

Can you give a dimension from the tip of the petal to the ledge?

 

Better yet a picture with a lee slug seated in there?

 

I'd like to order some federal wads soon, and if these will work, that will keep the cost down a lot.

 

It is a problem for good seating of the slug with Clay buster CB 1118-12, the equivalent to winchester white wad WAA12.

[Squishy 1,149]

Which brings me to another question. I assume whatever is placed inside the cup remains in the cup until cup and contents exit the barrel. I ask because I ran across a quantity of steel ball bearings .31" in size which is right between #1 and 0 buckshot. Of course you'd want to be aware of how these would behave as opposed to lead, might not want to go shooting thick steel plate.

 

Those are much lighter than lead, and prone to ricochet off of hard things. The shotcup should protect your barrel. Some chokes are designed to strip the shotcup earlier. Some chokes, particularly turkey chokes are specifically not for use with steel shot. Ditto older shotguns made before steel shot became prevalent.

 

The steel # .5 buckshot came in today. 15 in three layers of 5 will fit in a WAA12SL wad. Rough weight is .60 oz w/wad. This is just information..not a declaration of intent to do anything or advocate the doing of anything...not a question or request for information.

 

Edited November 23, 2012 by Squishy

[Deadeye 325]

I have tried the steel slingshot ammo lead is way better in my opinion

[strawman 2]

In regard to the "uncrimping hammer" idea, what about buying a cheap rubber mallet from harbor freight or whomever. Take mallet and center drill for od of shell so that it's snug enough that friction alone will hold in the shell. Then use something like a roasting pan, with tall sides to bang the hammer into. That way shot collects into the pan, and the shell removal process would be quick.

[Squishy 1,149]

I have tried the steel slingshot ammo lead is way better in my opinion

 

Yeah, this is an experiment for the most part. I'm going to get a 00 mold and make my own. Can only use so many slugs.

 

In regard to the "uncrimping hammer" idea, what about buying a cheap rubber mallet from harbor freight or whomever. Take mallet and center drill for od of shell so that it's snug enough that friction alone will hold in the shell. Then use something like a roasting pan, with tall sides to bang the hammer into. That way shot collects into the pan, and the shell removal process would be quick.

 

This idea has merit IMO but I can't imagine how you could drill a clean hole through a block of rubber, maybe some sort of hard plastic would work but it wouldn't hold the shell like rubber would.

[strawman 2]

I have tried the steel slingshot ammo lead is way better in my opinion

 

Yeah, this is an experiment for the most part. I'm going to get a 00 mold and make my own. Can only use so many slugs.

 

In regard to the "uncrimping hammer" idea, what about buying a cheap rubber mallet from harbor freight or whomever. Take mallet and center drill for od of shell so that it's snug enough that friction alone will hold in the shell. Then use something like a roasting pan, with tall sides to bang the hammer into. That way shot collects into the pan, and the shell removal process would be quick.

 

This idea has merit IMO but I can't imagine how you could drill a clean hole through a block of rubber, maybe some sort of hard plastic would work but it wouldn't hold the shell like rubber would.

 

A drill saw bit as used for PVC I think would work quite well. However keep in mind I've read rubber stretches when it's being drilled. So assuming a shell has an OD of .800 inches it should work out to about 13/16 bit, then a 3/4 bit might work perfectly if my math is right.

[oih 3]

Can you give a dimension from the tip of the petal to the ledge?

 

Only had a ruler at hand, and it measured 19mm (0.748 Inches). That means a 9x19mm case should fit flush inside. Too bad it's 9x19 and not 17x19, then we'd have an interesting jacketed slug

 

Øivind

[glennhmd 23]

this is an excellent topic. i've been wanting to do this "birdslug" experiment too for quite sometime now. birdshots are 2/3 less than the price of slugs and shotgun shells dont come cheap here in my country (about 57 cents as against 90 cents per shell).

 

birdshot to "OO" buck conversion sounds good too.

 

this thread has been very informative indeed. so much so, i ordered 1 oz. slug mold and a Lee load all 2 just to be able to recrimp my future birdslugs. cheers.

[Squishy 1,149]

this is an excellent topic. i've been wanting to do this "birdslug" experiment too for quite sometime now. birdshots are 2/3 less than the price of slugs and shotgun shells dont come cheap here in my country (about 57 cents as against 90 cents per shell).

 

birdshot to "OO" buck conversion sounds good too.

 

this thread has been very informative indeed. so much so, i ordered 1 oz. slug mold and a Lee load all 2 just to be able to recrimp my future birdslugs. cheers.

 

The money savings are undeniable. And like you I'd like to nail down putting buckshot in these birdshells but casting buckshot from what I've seen is more laborious and slower than slugs. Although many here buy buckshot it's pricey and shipping lead will only get more expensive over time. I'm going to obtain a Lee 00 mold and try my hand at it.

 

I don't know how available reloading supplies are in the PI but that's the learning curve I'm climbing now. With a LA2 you'll be able to do this too.

[Deadeye 325]

I havent tried the lee buckshot mold but the sharpshooter mold works great and makes 20 at a time. also when it gets hot enough most break off the sprew making cutting all them a lot faster. I also built a tumbler for the buck shot to round them a little more and remove the small inperfections. friend from the tire shop just gave me another bucket of wheel weights today. and he told me that his friend got a deer with one of my loads that I gave him. Now I just need some spare time for casting and reloading.

[Squishy 1,149]

I could make a guess but just what would the downside be to shooting 00 shot that's "imperfect"?