Slugs For Cheap

[Groovy Mike 36]

G-Mike, when you say "don't destroy expensive shot" are you talking about the shot that came out of the shell in the first place? I figured one good thing about this is there would be no need to obtain lead of any kind, just use the small pellets to make one big one. If a shell contains 1 1/8oz of small shot and it's melted to create either a 7/8oz or 1oz slugs you'd actually end up with lead left over.

 

I have to buy lead shot to load for trap at +/- $2 per pound if I buy it retail or have it shipped to me.

But I can buy scrap lead to pour slugs at 50 cents per pound (or get it free in wheel weight form).

The idea of pouring shot into the melting pot is like throwing away $1.50 per pound to do it - that's throwing away $37.50 per 25 pound bag of shot!!!

 

If I want to convert that scrap lead to small shot I need to swap it to a guy with a shotmaker. I give him 2 pounds of lead for one pound of shot back. So his shot costs me $1 per pound but it is not as good as factory made shot since it is not uniformly sized or perfectly round.

 

The idea that you guys are melting down perfectly good lead shot is just killing me.

[csspecs 1,987]

You all know that lead shot contains arsenic right? Wheel weights are more my choice.

 

Back when I cast a lot, I'd way outpace that kid. Normally I had a bucket of water with a cloth baffle to drop the finished slugs into, and a gas fired burner for more lead..

 

And you want long leather gloves, leather apron, safety glasses ect. I have some big scars from one ingot that had a drop of water in it, dang thing almost emptied the pot on me. Which is why you melt the lead away from you and ladle it over already melted.

 

If your making more then 100 slugs, I'd suggest getting the rest of the setup, that way you can use harder wads to get more performance.

[Squishy 1,149]

One thing I am wondering about is, if a shell is manufactured for say 7 1/2 shot can you assume the powder will be sufficient for slugs and/or 00/000? I'm sure veteran reloaders would know about this but I'm not sure.

 

What matters is the weight of the payload; a payload that weights 1 1/8th oz will have the same powder charge regardless if its #12 shot, #7 1/2 shot, 0000 buckshot or a slug.

 

As a side note: If you load buckshot in your pulled down walmart cheapie shotshells and you use a buffer, make sure you include the weight of the buffer as part of your payload.

 

I'm having a "duh" moment with this. Of course what you say is true. So a shell that had a 1 1/8oz load of bird shot has got more than enough juice for a 7/8 or 1oz slug. Again, duh...

 

I'm not certain what is meant my "buffer" though.

[Squishy 1,149]

You all know that lead shot contains arsenic right? Wheel weights are more my choice.

 

Didn't know about the arsenic. So proper ventilation or better yet, an exhaust pulling the fumes from the pot and venting to the outdoors would be the best counter measure?

 

If I were starting from scratch and reloading empty "surplus" hulls, I'd definitely go the wheel weight route. In fact, I may start making the rounds of all the local places that do tire work and start collecting weights.

 

It's probably not over but I just want to thank everyone who's chimed in here, I've learned a bunch in this thread, thanks guys.

[Marc 147]

One thing I am wondering about is, if a shell is manufactured for say 7 1/2 shot can you assume the powder will be sufficient for slugs and/or 00/000? I'm sure veteran reloaders would know about this but I'm not sure.

 

What matters is the weight of the payload; a payload that weights 1 1/8th oz will have the same powder charge regardless if its #12 shot, #7 1/2 shot, 0000 buckshot or a slug.

 

As a side note: If you load buckshot in your pulled down walmart cheapie shotshells and you use a buffer, make sure you include the weight of the buffer as part of your payload.

 

I'm having a "duh" moment with this. Of course what you say is true. So a shell that had a 1 1/8oz load of bird shot has got more than enough juice for a 7/8 or 1oz slug. Again, duh...

 

I'm not certain what is meant my "buffer" though.

 

If you cut open any decent commercial buckshot load and pour out the payload there will be white granular powder stuff in the shot cup with the buckshot...that's the buffer. Its used as a non-compressible cushion to keep the large shot sizes from flowing/deforming into the empty spaces in between the individual pieces of shot and gives you more uniform and consistent patterns. A lot of guys use cream of wheat as buffer in their buckshot reloads, although there are commercial buffer offerings as well.

[Groovy Mike 36]

If you guys need slugs, I'll happily swap you equal weight of my slugs for your shot.

[gunfun 3,931]

If you guys need slugs, I'll happily swap you equal weight of my slugs for your shot.

 

That's a fine offer, will we loose on shipping?

[rs51085 136]

just got to through in my 2 cents. for the most part i have been doing what a lot of these other guys have been doing but with a few differences.

 

i can load slugs from scratch for about .20 cents a piece. whether they are going 1200 fps or 1500 fps, same price. and they are very acurate.

 

i have a lee production pot, lee 1 oz mold, lee 12 gauge load all re-loader, and use old lead pipe to melt down.

 

the re-loader will make loading the slugs into the hulls and crimping them a lot easier and it only costs about 50 bucks.

 

my from scratch recipe is green dot powder, federal 124s wads, federal bulk hulls, 20 ga shot card under slug and a 1 oz slug.

 

i can load about 100 rounds an hour if i already have the slugs cast. get the pot and mold and see how you like just sticking the slugs in the prel-oaded hulls. once that gets addictive get the reloaded. you wont be sorry you did. and all ways keep in mind a reloaded shell can be more dangerous than a factory one so use at your own risk.

[Squishy 1,149]

...and all ways keep in mind a reloaded shell can be more dangerous than a factory one so use at your own risk.

 

Thanks for the input Rogers. I'm wondering in the statement above are you talking about a reloaded hull with a new primer, powder, wad and shot or are you talking about the thing we've been talking about, replacing shot with a slug?

[rs51085 136]

from a safety standpoint i was mostly talking about reloading from scratch. when you start actually reloading hulls you have to be very carefull chosing and modifying load data. so many people have done the slug substitution thing already i think it is pretty safe. that being said the 1oz lee mold comes with a really good sheet of load data if you do decide to go all out and start reloading. reloading is as much of the shooting hobby to me as shooting itself. it is relaxing. have fun and i hope you find exactly what you are looking for to shoot at that range and save some money. range rules suck.

[Squishy 1,149]

Well this rule is a bit of idiot-proofing. They think if they allow shot at all even though they plainly say 00 only, or 00 and 000 only, some mook will sneak in some bird shot and that would complicate their backstop cleaning process. It's their sand box so I can't really say anything but if it were mine, I'd trust people, especially members who've thrown down $295 for a membership to follow the rules. If someone is caught disregarding the rules, then institute restrictions for that member only. But that's just me. When I learn to create $20 per hundred slugs it would have been worth it.

[Groovy Mike 36]

If you guys need slugs, I'll happily swap you equal weight of my slugs for your shot.

 

That's a fine offer, will we loose on shipping?

 

USPS flat rate box is $11 for up to 70 pound weight. A 25 pound bag of shot leaves a lot of room inside. I'd say that the medium falt rate box could easily hold 35-40 pounds of shot and/or slugs. So the cost per slug would be negligible.

[gunfun 3,931]

Cool. I am going to need to pick up a bag or two of shot then.

[Squishy 1,149]

I make a lot of slugs, you are not gona make 100 in 10 mins, might get 3 done in 1 min, 30 in 10 mins.

I snagged 400 Win Universal shells today and in reading back over this thread I think you and I were talking about two different things. I was talking about casting a slug and I think you were talking about opening a shell, dumping the shot, inserting a slug etc. Having opened a few here I can understand your time estimate.

[hawaiianbasshead 3]

If you guys need slugs, I'll happily swap you equal weight of my slugs for your shot.

 

so how much would it take to be worth the efforts? I've been doing wax slugs but I would have better accuracy out of real slugs. I have a few boxes of this shot as it cycles my gun pretty steady, it's a black shell low brass that's actually brass.

 

 

 

I think I have at least 12 boxes and I plan to buy another 12 or so next time I hit kmart since they're selling all their inventory off and no longer going to sell ammo which sucks because that's the only low brass I can cycle reliably so far and I have profiled and polished my bolt so I mean... not sure where else to go besides paying pauly to do my bolt then try other low brass solutions.

 

I may have to invest in one of the molds and pouring/melting pots as well as a reloader if it's only $50

 

is there an easy way to open and reclose the crimp on the shells without a loader?

Edited September 9, 2012 by hawaiianbasshead

[Squishy 1,149]

is there an easy way to open and reclose the crimp on the shells without a loader?

 

So far I'm not seeing what would be called an "easy" way to open, just something to get the hang of and it will go more quickly. As for closing some who have commented use the Lee Load-All II to close. I tried cutting the crimp part off once it's opened up which could then be roll crimped but I'm concerned that this would make the shell too short to reliably feed. So just closing the crimp seems to be the way to go although once I get some slugs made from the Lee mold I'm going to test this to see what works.

 

Anyone know the minimum shell length that will reliably cycle in an S-12?

 

Here are the costs I've found for getting setup, this pricing is for new stuff but if you want to do the auction thing you can get out cheaper;

 

Lee Production Pot IV $65 shipped

Lee Slug Mold (12 Gauge) $28 shipped

Lee Load-All II $55 shipped

 

It doesn't take long to recoup this cost if you compare buying slugs with converting shot shells to slugs. Reloading from scratch saves too but I haven't priced hulls, wads, primers etc.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Squishy

[Syndicate 812]

I might just send you two bags of shot to your door from who I get it from lol

[rs51085 136]

just a heads up midway has those 3 items for a little less.

 

Lee Production Pot IV $56

Lee Slug Mold (12 Gauge) $21

Lee Load-All II $48

 

this does not include shipping but it looks like it would be about 15 bucks to my house. also if you do a search for coupon codes for midway you can usually find one and save a little more cash. you are right about the saving when you compare store bought slugs to what you can reload/substitute. this is one area of reloading that you can still save a lot of money.

just an example:

1000 rounds of bulk pack federal $22 for 100 x 10= $220

Remington slugger $209 for 250 x 4 = $836

so for the first 1000 rounds of ammo you reload/substitute you will have saved $616 compared to buying them. that should cover just about any amount of reloading equipment/supplies you can come up with and still save money on the first 1000 rounds. good luck, i can tell your ready to take the leap into this.

 

[Syndicate 812]

already have a pacific progrssive loader and mec single for 12 guage that I have access to at my folks!

[Squishy 1,149]

Well I had the melter and the mold on the way and I just ordered the Load All II so I'm set mostly.

 

And Rogers, yeah, it's a no brainer unless money is no object and it always has been and probably always will be for me.

 

My Saiga begs to be run and I'm happy to oblige but she does eat the ammo. Even at only $ .20 per shell a 20 round drum dump costs $4.00

 

As for the shot for slugs trade, I don't know how many "takers" Groovy Mike is prepared for but you guys go for it. I'm going to grab one of my 5 gallon buckets and go around to all the tire places tomorrow and collect as much scrap as I can. I'll hang on to the shot, I might be able to sell it and lower the net cost even more.

[bulldog_shotgun 47]

seems simple to me. shoot the shot shells and start saving hull's then you can reload with slugs or shot and while your at it. buckshot.

just pour your own from scrap lead(slugs and buck not sure its ever worth trying to make your own shot.)

[Squishy 1,149]

This is the first line of the OP, "Well I was stoked about the new indoor range 5 miles from my house since they allow shotguns and rifles up to .308. Turns out that for shotguns it's slugs only."

 

Place where I can shoot shot is 30 miles away (one way), place to shoot slugs is 5 miles away. I'd prefer to simply replace shot with slugs rather than getting into the more complex and costly reloading of shells.

[Groovy Mike 36]

I might just send you two bags of shot to your door from who I get it from lol

 

Sounds good to me! I'll take #7-8 for trap shooting or better yet #5 for turkeys!

 

As for an easy way to open the crimped shells - all you need to do is get a pair of needle nose pliers. Grab the shell in your left hand, slid one side of the pointed plier tip into the center or the crimp and pry it open. Then slip the closed pair of pliers into the opening and quick spin it around teh outside edge. The crimp will unfold perfectly and you can pour the shot out leaving the wad in place to receive the next payload.

[Syndicate 812]

how about a bag of 7 and a bag of 5?

[Squishy 1,149]

Went out and made the rounds trying to scrounge up some scrap lead. Went to 4 places who deal primarily in tires and got the same "We're on a recycling program" line from them all but I was able to talk one place into giving roughly 20LBs of old wheel weights.

 

Are there any other possible sources I might check for scrap?

[Marc 147]

Most tire shops have signed contracts with battery manufacturers that prevent them from selling the old lead...you best bet for wheel weights is to buy it from ebay or find the little mom-n-pop tire shops around you and hope they aren't already saving their lead for someone else.

[Squishy 1,149]

I've got some contacts that do industrial plant clean-outs and from what I know lead doesn't have a very high scrap value compared to alloys like 304 and 316L stainless so maybe I can get some this way depending on where it exists in various processes.

[rs51085 136]

i ended up getting my scrap lead pipe off eBay. it ended up costing $1 a lb shipped. seems to make good slugs. some will say $1 dollar a pound is high but if you can't find it locally its not bad. that is still cheap enough to save a lot of money. fyi shot usually goes for around 2 dollars a pound. Squishy i to went around to my tire places and got nothing so you did pretty good to get 20 lbs. as was already said i guess they have a deal with some place. one other option is sheet lead. it is used in roofing sometimes so if you know anyone in that business you may hit the jack pot.

[filthygovemploye 64]

wouldn't you want rifled slugs?

I don't have a rifled shotgun barrel myself.

 

Last time I tried shooting non-rifled slugs out of a smooth bore, it didn't do all that much damage to a melon at 20 feet.

 

i launched some 690 round balls outta a nef last week at 100 yds, and hit a torso target twice in a row. and they smited it with authoriTAY!!! i tried them in my saiga, but the hk sights and low bore access caused me to mis-aim. i was hitting 20 ft low or so... will do more work on those this weekend.

 

as far as the pics i was requesting, it was the other method of crimps, (specifically roll crimps)

 

my lee slug mold showed up today, super psyched!

 

i second the non melting down lead shot, save it for when you want to shoot shot...i have a nice source of lead though, so its easy for me to say...

 

the load all 2 sounds good, but the roll crimp is only 20 bucks (BPI reloading), so i will prob go that route

[filthygovemploye 64]

is there an easy way to open and reclose the crimp on the shells without a loader?

 

I tried cutting the crimp part off once it's opened up which could then be roll crimped but I'm concerned that this would make the shell too short to reliably feed.

 

Anyone know the minimum shell length that will reliably cycle in an S-12?

 

 

i too wonder aboot this, BPI reloading book recommends using the "trim doctor" before the roll crimper. but then you are uisng 2.5s, which some pump people might like, but ya, they might not work in the 12