Substituting 12 Gauge Shot And Slugs

[Squishy 1,149]

In the Saiga 12 forum I started the "Slugs For Cheap" thread which addresses taking Walmart bird shot (Winchester Universal) shells, removing the 7 1/2 shot and adding cast slugs as I need cheap slugs to shoot at the indoor range which only allows them, no shot of any kind permitted.

 

I'm still setting up my casting process so I haven't actually inserted a Lee cast slug into a Winchester Universal yet. One way or another I'll definitely either uncrimp the shell or remove the crimp altogether.

 

My question about this is, if a slug is inserted and somehow the slug moves toward the end of the shell creating a gap between the base of the cup and the bottom of the slug is there any downside or adverse outcome to this? If the slug absolutely must be seated in the cup then steps can be taken to ensure it remains so.

 

The other question is, must any shot 00, #4 whatever be precisely placed in the cup as it is with commercial loads? I've seen translucent shells and the shot is always stacked in a very orderly symmetrical way. So if I open up the aforementioned bird shot partially and dump it, then drop some larger shot in and close the crimp does it matter how the shot is arranged? Of course it would be good to match the weight of the payload.

[msrdiver 42]

if the slug is loose in the hull, add 20 gauge overs shot cards between the slug and wad. Or add a 2o gauge 1/8" thick felt disk.

Some have tried gluing the slug to the wad for good results.

 

Stacking Buckshot is pretty much a requirement. There is one big exception and that is buffer. Store bought buffer or Cream o Wheat is add as the pellets are dropped in the shell. MUST add the buffer or Cream o Wheat mass to your load recipee.

[Squishy 1,149]

I guess glue of some sort would ensure the slug stays put. I am still wondering if there would be any negative effect if there was a gap.

 

In the case of shot, if you're dumping 1 1/8oz if bird shot out of the shell the same weight of shot and buffer need to be added back but the shot need not be perfectly stacked in the hull like factory shot is?

 

if the slug is loose in the hull, add 20 gauge overs shot cards between the slug and wad. Or add a 2o gauge 1/8" thick felt disk.

Some have tried gluing the slug to the wad for good results.

 

Stacking Buckshot is pretty much a requirement. There is one big exception and that is buffer. Store bought buffer or Cream o Wheat is add as the pellets are dropped in the shell. MUST add the buffer or Cream o Wheat mass to your load recipee.

[Deadeye 325]

if the slug is loose in the hull, add 20 gauge overs shot cards between the slug and wad. Or add a 2o gauge 1/8" thick felt disk.

Some have tried gluing the slug to the wad for good results.

 

Stacking Buckshot is pretty much a requirement. There is one big exception and that is buffer. Store bought buffer or Cream o Wheat is add as the pellets are dropped in the shell. MUST add the buffer or Cream o Wheat mass to your load recipee.

Some of the store bought buck that i have just leaks crap all inside my gun. i didnt like cleaning it all out.

[Groovy Mike 36]

You should insert you rslug into the shot cup and give it a tap with the wad seater in your reloading press (or a dowel and mallet) to seat it firmly against the shot cup. It SHOULD stay there, and based on my results (below) the one ounce slug should fill the same amount of space as the one ounce of shot allowing for a good crimp. If you are swapping one sized shot for another and using teh same weight of shot (for example one ounce of #4 for one ounce of #8) just dump it in. Buckshot is typically "stacked" just so all the pellets fit. Dump it in and shake it, it will stack itself.

 

I rec’d my new Lee one ounce 12 gauge slug mold in Friday’s mail. Saturday I cast a couple dozen slugs and was delighted with the performance of the mold. I was eager to try the slugs so took the expedient route of dumping the one ounce load of #8 shot from factory loaded Remington shells. Without changing the load I inserted my shiny new slugs in the shot cups and re-crimped the shells. They crimped beautifully and were indistinguishable from the original factory loaded shells. When I had three of them loaded I took them out with my Saiga 12 and a plain cardboard box. I set the box down and stepped off 20 paces. Holding roughly for the center of the unmarked box and firing offhand with iron sites from a standing position I pumped three quick shots into the box and was delighted to find that I could cover all three holes with the palm of my hand.

 

Given those firing conditions, no bench, no scope, and no target to aim at beyond a white box face. I think those results are something to be pleased with.

[Squishy 1,149]

I was mainly wondering if there would be a problem when a space exists between the cup and the bottom of the slug. Since most likely once the crimp is closed there would be a space between it and the top of the slug it would be able to slide forward if tapped or something. This is mainly theoretical. I don't know the physics of this stuff as well as some so I just ask, what if?

 

So I'm getting the replacement shot does not have to be perfectly and symmetrically stacked as long as it's fairly tight in the shell.

[Groovy Mike 36]

Right. Your theory is correct. You do not want the slug (or shot) to give room for the wad to move back and forth inside the crimped shell. That could result in the powder not all burning at the same time. This would result in poor performance from the load. You want the wad to sit tight against the powder, and the shot or slug to sit firmly against the wad. The crimp should hold it all in place on the top end. You may need some filler (cream of wheat, commercial buffer, over shot cardboard wad, etc. to get that tight fit depending on what crimping method / wad selection / hull / and load you are using. It all sounds a lot more complicated than it really is.

[Squishy 1,149]

Right. Your theory is correct. You do not want the slug (or shot) to give room for the wad to move back and forth inside the crimped shell. That could result in the powder not all burning at the same time. This would result in poor performance from the load. You want the wad to sit tight against the powder, and the shot or slug to sit firmly against the wad. The crimp should hold it all in place on the top end. You may need some filler (cream of wheat, commercial buffer, over shot cardboard wad, etc. to get that tight fit depending on what crimping method / wad selection / hull / and load you are using. It all sounds a lot more complicated than it really is.

 

As long as a possible outcome is not my barrel blossoming out like a Morning Glory.

 

IMO if you are seeking the most simple solution it is essential to understand the complexities.

[msrdiver 42]

Groovy Mike is correct that the crimp should hold it all in place. It is possible one brand of hull wad combo isn't conducive to a direct swap of slug for shot but another is. So, It looks like Mike had good performance from using Remington Hulls. I wonder if there is an RXP-12 wad in his round. Mike, how would you describe the wad in that shell? Thanks.

 

BTW

Mike was also correct to substitute mass for mass slug (1oz) in a standard 1 hull. Probably could sub a 1 oz slug in an 11/8oz hull. Slugs *typically* produce lower pressures.

 

I have a 492 grain Round Ball load that moves at 1341fps at 7800psi I need to put that ball on top of a 1/8" felt wad to keep it against the top crimp.

[Groovy Mike 36]

Mike, how would you describe the wad in that shell? Thanks.

 

I'll take a look and try to get a pic. I did not even take them out of the hull so beyond "white" I don't have much to give you. BTW - I found that while the Lee mold seems to work just fine in the direct swap into the shot cup (in my very limited test) the slug from the Lyman mold does not. It's hollow base needs to expand for accuracy. I am experimenting with a fiber wad that will fill and expand the base instead of a plastic shot cup that just pushes the slug ahead of it. Results from a better idea to follow....

Edited September 26, 2012 by Groovy Mike

[corbin 621]

Old thread, I know......

 

 

 The Wife bought me a Lee 1 oz slug mold for my Birthday and I already had a Lee lead casting pot. I'm interested in replacing the 1 1/8 oz birdshot from Federal bulk 12 ga rounds with a 1 oz Lee slug. Not sure what velocity I'll get with the slug being slightly lighter though. Anyone got experience here?

 

 One thing I recently found was a guy on youtube that makes shell preppers (mainly for people wanting to make wax slugs). He makes these wooden blocks that cut the very tip off the shell, so you can access the shot. One of the more intereting designs he makes is one that cuts the FRONT of the crimp instead of the side. There's still a slight roll to the front edge, since the razor blade cuts just inside the edge. I picked one up and it works beautifully.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjanPNPZxbQ

[Deadeye 325]

I think they would be fine to shoot but the federal 2 piece wad is'nt the best for slugs

[gunfun 3,931]

Old thread, I know......

 

 

 The Wife bought me a Lee 1 oz slug mold for my Birthday and I already had a Lee lead casting pot. I'm interested in replacing the 1 1/8 oz birdshot from Federal bulk 12 ga rounds with a 1 oz Lee slug. Not sure what velocity I'll get with the slug being slightly lighter though. Anyone got experience here?

 

 One thing I recently found was a guy on youtube that makes shell preppers (mainly for people wanting to make wax slugs). He makes these wooden blocks that cut the very tip off the shell, so you can access the shot. One of the more intereting designs he makes is one that cuts the FRONT of the crimp instead of the side. There's still a slight roll to the front edge, since the razor blade cuts just inside the edge. I picked one up and it works beautifully.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjanPNPZxbQ

 

Common enough.- Lot's of people do it, but accuracy is poor. These are only OK accuracy at best anyway, but still beat roundballs soundly.

 

The best popular wads for that slug are the WAA12 SL and the Federal 12S0. I got a 7/8 oz mold in trade not too long ago, and those use the same wads but need the crimp set a little deeper. I did find that the Lee 7/8 made a bulge in federal gun club hullls with the 12S0 wad, so that is not a good combo. The AA12 SL was fine though. Off hand I was easily shooting bowling pins at about 70' fairly quickly. I should have done a paper group, but I always forget.