Mags

[DeerSlayer7600 20]

I've been doing a lot of reading about keeping Saiga 12 mags loaded and from what I've gathered, keeping them loaded in the gun will cause the shells to deform after a while. Am I correct in thinking then that if you keep the mag loaded but not in the gun that the shells will be fine and not deform?

[Deadeye 325]

I just keep the bolt open.

[WingedOne 14]

I just keep the bolt open.

 

Agreed the shells will deform if they are being smashed by spring pressure against the closed bolt. Leave the bolt locked back and I don't foresee any problems, that's my plan for what it's worth. Besides the internets told me the sound of a 12 gauge being racked will make the bad guys quit their evil ways and reach for the heavens.

 

 

 

 

 

reach for the heavens.

Edited September 24, 2012 by WingedOne

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Doesn't happen with slugs, only shot shells. You could top off your mag with a slug, or as others said, leave the bolt open...

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Am I correct in thinking then that if you keep the mag loaded but not in the gun that the shells will be fine and not deform?

Yes

[Goose 95]

10 rounder rocked in, bolt locked open when I'm at the house or on Mondays when I'm the only one in the shop while I clean. In the truck she's laying behind my seat and the mag is next to me. G17 in the door panel

[shoot2thrillu 10]

10 rounder rocked in, bolt locked open when I'm at the house or on Mondays when I'm the only one in the shop while I clean. In the truck she's laying behind my seat and the mag is next to me. G17 in the door panel

 

i feel sorry for the dumb crook that tries anything. lol thats almost funny actually

[gunfun 3,931]

This is a rare problem that gets a bunch of questions every few months. For the most part it will not happen enough to matter.

 

I keep the bolt locked open with a full mag.

However, simply changing brands of ammo or choosing a better load will solve the problem if you choose to keep a full mag against a closed bolt. Remington OOB seems to be more vulnerable than Winchester or Federal equivalents. Basically, the others have a tougher shotshell and shot cup to hold it's shape.

Cheap loads like those clear S&B OOB use a roll crimp, felt spacer, gas seal cup and no shotcup around the shot. They have a tough but soft clear shell that deforms a lot. Get one of those and look at it. You can see through the clear shell the big gaps between the pellets. These gaps are the weak points. #4 Buck is a much better load for defense anyway, and the small pellets leave small gaps therefore a more durable shell.

 

I used to keep mine loaded with S&B 15 pellet OOB. They did get pretty dented up from storage or even just one loading. Some of them looked pretty bad, but even ones I deliberately made worse loaded into the gun. The real issue with these is the roll crimp can get bent and snag on the feed ramp area if these are mis-handled. (Shoving mangled roll crimps into a spare choke tube is a good way to make them round again.) This is good range ammo, but it isn't the best choice for HD for this reason. I would expect similar issues with RIO, Centurion, and Nobelsport shells of similar construction.

 

So, I left a common Federal #4 buck shell loaded most of last fall, winter and summer against a closed bolt in my 108 just to make this point. This was easily more than 4 months of total time in the gun, but I failed to keep records. (leaving that mag at home when I went shooting and re installing the mag on a closed bolt without disturbing the orientation of the shell) Even in hot weather, it did not deform at all. There was a small scuff on the shell from the several times I released the magazine to check. (This was not some super special ammo either. Federal Power-shok 2 3/4" 27 pellet #4 buck 1325 FPS, ### F127 4b)

 

So you have 2 ways to solve this minor potential problem that gets such a big deal made of it every 4 months:

1) Full mag, use the BHO to hold the bolt open, whether that is the factory BHO or a Krebs style notch in the safety.

2) Fill the mag with better ammo with strong shell, full shotcup, and smaller pellet size, preferably #4 buck.

3) Be really smart and do both.

4) Relax. This is mostly a problem worried about by people who don't own saigas and have been reading 6 year old discussions.

Edited September 26, 2012 by GunFun

[Goose 95]

I know it's not really a huge problem, and what I should do before I actually worry about it is store it like that for a long time, like gunfun did, and then take it to the range and make sure it's not enough to catch that sharp edge on the rear of the bbl. I've had problems with a few hulls gettin caught there when she's runnin to dirty, and those were fresh out of a box. But they were bulk pack, buck should have enough juice to power through no problem.

 

I've always been curious about an HD set up though. I know full brass is sort of old fashioned and hard to get a hold of with out a lil bit of looking, but I wonder how it would work to keep a full mag locked and loaded with a full brass shell under the bolt and the rest just regular old plastic

[Eric Pate 478]

Theres always the ol' "pull-pin mag mod".

 

You could probably dig it up with a search. Basically, some folks who were concerned about this issue drilled a hole in their mag body to accept a grenade-type pull-pin which held the shells by the brass just under the bolt. This allowed them to keep their mags loaded to capacity plus one in the chamber, just flip the safety and pull the pin.

[incognito485 26]

Doesn't happen with slugs, only shot shells. You could top off your mag with a slug, or as others said, leave the bolt open...

 

It does happen with slugs. The actual slug itself will not deform but the outer plastic hull will, which can cause feeding and ejecting problems.

[gunfun 3,931]

It all depends on the particular load and whether the shell is supported by shotcup or lead at the point where the bump on the bolt is pressing against the shell. If there is lead there, the shell might get a scuff, but it will hold it's shape.

 

Obviously this is one of the advantages of a good bolt reprofiling.

[DirtyAlien 0]

I try to shoot the mag I keep loaded every month. I haven't left if loaded for longer than a couple months, but have never had an issue. I also do not leave the bolt open.