LINCH on a Saiga-12?

[grommit666 24]

This might be old news but I just saw this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwCn7gEsDA

... and it got me wondering. How hard would it be to make one fit a S12?

[gunfun 3,931]

New to me. That looks really slick. Pity it doesn't have a weaver rail on it and some way to stabilize.

[corbin 621]

I think you'd just have to open up the ejection port a bit to match the S-12's. My primary concern with it on a Saiga would be running your hand back into the side optics mount. It would chew up your hand a little (similar to sharp rear sights on a pistol). Cool idea though. Being a lefty, it doesn't provide me any advantage, but it's still cool.

[CFOofEVIL 8]

I've also been wondering what it would take to adapt too. Eventually I really want to get one to put on my S223 - it'd be awesome to be able to swap it back and forth from it to my S12. I think it's a pretty sweet idea.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

The S-12 dust cover is a lot different than on a rifle. It takes a lot more than just opening up the E port. Unless they specifically made one using factory S-12 covers, it's not something anyone really wants to fuck with. Better to just order a left hand charger from one of OUR vendors. I make some really nice ones myself.

Shameless plug insertion here...why not...

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/61244-left-side-charging-handles/

[gunfun 3,931]

Another of our vendors (or former vendor) Nate "gunfixer" put an actual Fal charger on the left side of his. Very slick build.

 

What I want is a screwed in left side charging handle that I can unscrew if I choose to use a side mount scope. It looks like R&R is offering the very thing I was looking to do for myself.

 

PS. Nice work Cobra, but I am curious what the point was of leaving on the side rail with that handle? Knuckle skinner?

[grommit666 24]

The S-12 dust cover is a lot different than on a rifle. It takes a lot more than just opening up the E port. Unless they specifically made one using factory S-12 covers, it's not something anyone really wants to fuck with. Better to just order a left hand charger from one of OUR vendors. I make some really nice ones myself.

Shameless plug insertion here...why not...

 

That's what I was afraid of, that the dust cover on a S12 is just too different. I haven't tried to modify a rifle dust cover for mine but I knew some here had. However, while I agree that some of our vendors, Cobra included, do excellent work in this department, I think the LINCH system has two advantages. First, it's easily reversible and doesn't require modifications to the hard to find bolt carrier. Second, it's non-reciprocating so no risk of bruised knuckles or noses. Hopefully it will be adapted to the Saiga-12 eventually.

[Goose 95]

That's pretty damn cool. Someone needs to tell Texas Weapon Systems about this. How much more damn cool would a merger of these companies' products be...

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Another of our vendors (or former vendor) Nate "gunfixer" put an actual Fal charger on the left side of his. Very slick build.

 

What I want is a screwed in left side charging handle that I can unscrew if I choose to use a side mount scope. It looks like R&R is offering the very thing I was looking to do for myself.

 

PS. Nice work Cobra, but I am curious what the point was of leaving on the side rail with that handle? Knuckle skinner?

 

 

 

Nahh not at all actually. For one, the rail only sticks out 3/8". That oversized charging handle I made that long for a reason, it's 1 1/2" off the side of the receiver. You'd have to either not be paying any attention or have catcher's mits for hands to hit the rail while charging this one.

 

Other thing is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. (In this case...) and I have an extra bolt carrier.

 

 

My other LH (ambi) charger S-12 does actually have a removable handle. Also has a Blackthorn Industries modified AK rifle dustcover with fixed top rail, which is why I know all that's involved with that little PITA.. I gotta say...drilling and tapping the S-12 bolt carrier is not something you really wana try either. That's some HARD shit it's made out of!

[gunfun 3,931]

I was afraid of that. I could tell that it is tough steel.

[CFOofEVIL 8]

Just for giggles, I pulled the top cover off of my 223 and compared it to the one on my S12. A once over, and some - rough - measurements tell me that they are pretty similar. More or less the same length, height and width (I can't tell if the 223 cover is slightly bent or just a tad bit different in size). The ribs and angles are almost a match, with the main differences coming from the ejection port cutaway which is relieved A LOT more and the raised area the rear of the safety lever butts up against (IE: the end closer to the pivot point of the safety). On the 12, that portion is set farther back and juts out to the right side a bit more. The square hole for the recoil spring assembly is the same size and in the same location (from what I can tell). It looks like the angled back portion of the cover that this hole sits in is slightly different on the 223 versus that of the 12's (tested by sitting that portion flat against a table side by side with the 12 cover). Also, the front lower left of the 12 cover is cut differently.

 

I went as far as trying to place the 223 cover on my S12, and it almost fits. Of course, the areas I described above are keeping it from clicking in. I'm not an engineer, machinist or gunsmith, but it certainly looks as if you could take a cover that would fit a 223 and modify it to fit a 12. Again, I want to stress that I only did some crude measurements and eyeballing to compare the two. I took some comparison photos as well, but I won't be able to put them up until about sunday as I will be working for the next 3 days. It seems that enlarging or relieving the ejection port cutout would be rather straight forward, but creating the raised ledge that the 12 cover has by the rear of the safety lever (as previously described) seems like it would be a bit more complicated. To that end, I'm not sure what purpose it serves. Perhaps I'll pick up a cheap cover and mess around with it to see what can be achieved. After all, I'd hate to be the one who monkeys around with a $120+ part and hacks it so that it wouldn't operate on either rifle!

 

Another concern I'd have about the LINCH on a S12 would be if that the tab connected to the CH that interacts with the shelf on the BCG is long enough to engage properly and clear everything on the inside with no issues.

 

EDIT: Ah heck, sleep can wait a bit longer. I threw the pictures on here.

Edited September 27, 2012 by CFOofEVIL

[gunfun 3,931]

People have cut out the ejection hole in standard dustcovers and used them on Saiga 12s before. I think the issue Cobra was referring to would be getting the tab to engage. Normal AKs don't have that top portion of the barrel hood in the way of the shoulder that slider catches on. I am not saying it is not doable, I am just saying that it might be a bugger to get the parts to line up without hitting.

 

By all means step in and make one. Maybe that will convince the manufacturer that there is demand.

 

I second the TWS comment. If the were to make a S12 specific model they could make a hinge that uses the dovetail from the rear sight.

[6500rpm 670]

Haven't done my homework due to time constraints, but what keeps the charging handle forword (is there a detent).

[CFOofEVIL 8]

Indeed, the shelf is concerning. I'm also not sure what keeps the CH forward either. At any rate, I'm mostly just curious to see these run on a 12 somehow. With that said, realistically, I dont have the budget to pick one of these up any time soon. I'm mostly just thinking 'out loud' in case someone else was curious about modifying one to fit an S12.

 

 

[Goose 95]

People have cut out the ejection hole in standard dustcovers and used them on Saiga 12s before. I think the issue Cobra was referring to would be getting the tab to engage. Normal AKs don't have that top portion of the barrel hood in the way of the shoulder that slider catches on. I am not saying it is not doable, I am just saying that it might be a bugger to get the parts to line up without hitting.

 

By all means step in and make one. Maybe that will convince the manufacturer that there is demand.

 

I second the TWS comment. If the were to make a S12 specific model they could make a hinge that uses the dovetail from the rear sight.

 

I've emailed TWS two or three times in the past year or so. The first time they said that they were working on one, it would be ready in a few months and that I was also on an email notice list for when it came out. I asked if it would work with the dove tail or if I should get a Dinzag RSB, to spread the cost out and also just to be ready...there was no answer. Several months went by, I sent them another just to make sure that my email hadn't sorted it as spam, and again, they're working on it, and I will receive an email when they are ready. Again I asked if I was going to need any other hardware to attach it, and again, that was the end of the conversation. That was a few months ago, I guess I'm about due for another email huh lol

Edited September 28, 2012 by Goose

[gunfun 3,931]

Well, cost of S12+ Cost of TWS+ basic conversion parts ~ cost of Vepr12... then add Cost of Dinzag RSB....

[lelandeod 179]

In the interest of saving you money... they already put a charging handle on your Saiga... it's the little dealie sticking out of the right side of the receiver.

 

 

If that bothers, you it's probably your fault for not being left handed!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

By all means don't listen to anything I say. Just because I actually have an AK rifle dust cover mounted on my personal S-12 is no reason I should warn others they WILL run into issues if they try to make that thing work. I never said it COULDN'T be done. "Can't" never has been a word in my vocabulary since mama told me as a boy... "Can't never could"...

I'm quite sure that I could make it work....

There's a thread on here somewhere, where I detailed the issues when I made that one work on my S-12. I'm just too busy to look for it or write it all back out again and post the pics.

 

 

[bigdust80 10]

If that bothers, you it's probably your fault for not being left handed!

Haha. Maybe that's why I like AK's so much, since I'm one of the chosen people.

[CFOofEVIL 8]

I must reiterate - I'm just curious about this happening on an S12. Call it personal preference or what not, I just like seeing the envelopes being pushed and a variety of different mods being done by different people. I just think it would be neat to see it done. No offense to anyone who has the skill to make it happen, or has made something similar happen in the past. You've pushed the envelope too at one point or another, and that's awesome. I just think there is a lot of freedom for invention with the S12 and AK's in general, a lot of one off style of things if you will (a few members of this board, professional and tinkerer alike, have done some amazing one offs in the past). That's part of why I like the S12 so much. Us S12 people tend to do our own thing.

 

As far a Left handed charging handles go - I don't need one. It sure would be cool to see someone pull off something in this specific style, however!

[corbin 621]

LEFTIES UNITE!!!!

[grommit666 24]

I did a quick search for "dust cover" in the S12 forums and these two threads seemed relevant:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/75844-what-top-covers-fit/

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/77174-saiga-12-dust-cover/

 

They make it sound like opening up the ejection port is the only real mod needed to make most any AK dust cover fit a S12. Not having done it myself, I can neither confirm nor deny. Cobra, could you please comment on what sort of difficulty you encuntered in fitting one? Did it require more than just dremel work?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

The cuts that have to be made to fit to the different trunnion (front left side), and enlarge the ejection port, are only part of the problem. There's the little nub on top of the radius up front, and the fact the S-12 receiver is wider than a regular AK. Then lastly and hardest to deal with, there's the expanded part at the rear of the ejection port cutout where the bolt carrier has to fit under the dustcover at it's rearmost point of travel. (circled in the bottom photo in post #11 above) The S-12 carrier is fatter there, and needs that expanded area that doesn't exist on the AK dust cover. It will force it's way under there if not, and drag there on the inside. More drag is definitely not something you want to add to an S-12 bolt carrier. I spend most of my time working to create less drag on the bolt group. As far as the width difference...an AK rifle dust cover will actually fit inside the bottom of an S-12 cover, if put together bottom to bottom. So it has to be bent outward to fit over the reciever, as well as something done to clearance the bolt carrier. All this is doable, it's just a pain in the ass and you have to be careful to make it look good.

Having not seen one of these new things up close yet, IDK just how well it would or would not engage the S-12 bolt carrier either.

[moagm316 1]

What about using this on a saiga 20?

[Aust 10]

What a great idea, I'd love one of these on my s12

[Aust 10]

Is the FAL charging system available as a kit somewhere, I could tig weld it to my s12 top cover.

 

If not the weld on charge handle on the left will have to do

 

Can anyone recommend a suitable grade of welding filler wire for the s12 bolt?

[gunfun 3,931]

Gunfixxer put the FAL charging handle on the receiver. I believe he had to lengthen the track an do other significant modifications, as well as remove the scope rail.