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So to recap, you are a champion competitor who is fully sponsored by Molot and you could have just about anything you want built by the factory, you have run enough rounds through your guns to wear out the trigger components and yet you prefer their cheaper aluminum model. -- I think that alone should be enough to put the question of materials to rest.

 

Also it doesn't look like you find lighter weight to be a handicap. you are level, smooth, and fast with light loads approximately 3 1/4 dram equivalent. (28 gram @ ?? m/s) so your light brake is helping even with low gas pressure at muzzle. And there is plenty of footage of you and your team in competitions that you can't cherry pick showing that you have near instantaneous shot to shot recovery times.

 

Honestly, I think the whole "X is the best because [insert name here] the most uber guy in the world uses them" kind of threads are dumb. Personally, I don't see any value aluminum as a material, other than cost. Ironically when it comes to the Molot GK-01, it's more expensive than the Tromix Monster. So aluminum is great - as a way to line Molot's pockets with epic profits at least.

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Says someone who hasn't done slow motion video of several different brakes of similar design and different materials.   The aluminum one I compared has about zero muzzle flip as tested, and reduces

Yes it is physics, but you are looking at the question far too narrowly. It's physics. However, take into account the rest of the factors which are affected by physics.   All things equal, a lighter

Thanks but NO thanks. I'll use a REAL Russian brake if I want one like that. Not a copy. That's just my preference. I have not tested any of these style brakes.

You are mis-charachterizing my argument. I was pointing out that if aluminum was going to wear out, his would have. I did not say "use this because the coolest guy does." PZ just corrected me to say that the one Sergii uses is steel.

 

As for cost, comparing the monster at ~$160 and the GK01 at ~$160 in country they are the same money. The monster used to be something like $250 because Tony made them manually in small quantities.. The aluminum GKO1 clone is $99. The "mini-monster" is in that neighborhood. Aluminum itself costs more than steel, but can cost less to machine. The cost here is primarily volume of production, not materials. If brakes were selling in the hundreds of thousands, they could be had $20 -$50.

 

And Molot has problems with turning a profit, epic or otherwise. Don't mistake me for a brand fanboy. It looks to me like the Gko1 and monster are pretty comparable in performance, but there has never been a direct comparison made. My whole point in this thread is that there seem to be many effective brakes that weigh a few ounces and inches rather than about a pound and 7+", and seem to work about as well from what I can tell. Further when I tested similar but not identical brakes made of steel and aluminum, the light ones worked about as well as the heavy ones. I think the monster looks great, but the weight concerns me. The cost is pretty high, and I don't think it was ever really intended to be installed without a barrel chop and perm. It would be far more attractive to me if Tony were making an aluminum version. He has built them with plenty of meat so it would still have plenty of strength to spare.

 

Gregory, I am not trying to start some personal spat with you, just trying to keep the facts straight. This really isn't something to get worked up about, people are free to buy or not buy anything they want. Have you used any of the brakes discussed, or are you just postulating? Yes/No?

 

Fascinating that the failure in Sergii's picture seems to occur 1.5 cm from the muzzle, not immediately.

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Fascinating that the failure in Sergii's picture seems to occur 1.5 cm from the muzzle, not immediately.

 

The highest pressure in this place. Gas cut off wall and goes back to port.

 

The photo shows a replica of a muzzle brake defective aluminum. Its cost in Russia ~ $ 65. The original muzzle brake costs ~ $ 95-100

Edited by Sergii
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GunFun, are you saying a rifle's bullet actually touches a muzzle brake?

 

I know you asked this question of GF but I'm really curious, can you quote the text in which you perceive he's stated anything like what you're asking about?

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Rak-yes, I am with some designs. That's why the better ones come with replaceable strike plates i.e. Firebird/Miculek .223 comp. The fancier versions Browning Boss system lets you adjust the gap and constriction which becomes necessary as the brake wears or when you change loads.

 

Obviously most are not made to do so because of wear reasons, and the fact that the manufacturers cannot control the concentricity of your barrel, unless they sell you the units together. Obviously none of the mass production brakes are not going to deal with this kind of precision tuning and QC check, so they just allow a bit of clearance for safety and call it good. obviously a cheapo slant brake or something like that doesn't even try to come close. Further, most users wouldn't want to mess with the tuning necessary to keep it at peak performance. You have to be a very good and thorough shooter to really take advantage of such a system.

 

With any term that gets used frequently the definitions tend to migrate. I've seen a lot of flash hiders called muzzled brakes, and muzzle brakes on tanks and artillery are called brakes. Frequent use tend for blurry and overlapping definitions.

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So NOT ALL Aluminum muzzle brake are safety to use.

 

Here is an example of a dangerous replica muzzle brake:

 

100340288.jpg

 

100340290.jpg

I was thinking of geting one of the CSS US made copies of the GK-01. Not so sure. If it's just cut out of billet and not forged I can see why it would'nt hold up as well. I'm not playing with that. Edited by rnemhrd
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So NOT ALL Aluminum muzzle brake are safety to use.

 

Here is an example of a dangerous replica muzzle brake:

 

100340288.jpg

 

100340290.jpg

I was thinking of geting one of the CSS US made copies of the GK-01. Not so sure. If it's just cut out of billet and not forged I can see why it would'nt hold up as well. I'm not playing with that.

 

Yeah, it has me re-thinking the idea as well

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I doubt CSS would sell it without safety testing it. China is a different deal.

 

Not all aluminum is created or treated equal, and a small increase of thickness can go a long way.

 

Doubt me? take a 2" by 1/4" bar of 6061 tempered aluminum and scratch it with a scribe (or about anything it is aluminum) throw it in the vice and reef on it with a big crescent wrench. You will be able to bend it somewhere about 40-60 degrees and it will crack right on that scribe and break off when you straighten it. Now repeat with 5056 and you can work it back and forth for an hour without breaking it. many engineers spec the high temper stuff because it has high tensile strength numbers and sounds cool to say "architectural grade" or "aircraft grade" without really considering the consequences of material properties. My family would have a few boats doing submarine impressions if we hadn't been aware of this. The wrong aluminum is stiff, but it is very brittle. Cast aluminum is very porous.

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I hear ya. But the Russian break is made of aluminum that is also forged. Css just says billet. I understand what Sergii is saying too. Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

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Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

And not safety for shooter and people around :(

Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.
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Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

And not safety for shooter and people around sad.png

Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.

This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!

 

And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!

 

And don't forget about copyright, Molot pays royalty to Vsevolod Ilyn for every GK-01 they made, pirates that make GK-01 copies - don't!

Edited by PapaZorro
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Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

And not safety for shooter and people around sad.png

Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.

This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!

 

And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!

 

So how can we buy the Molot Version? Having seen them in action at the World shoot in Hungary I am totally sold. I am based in the UK , So attempting to order anything from a US based supplier is a bust. Is there a RU site that I can order from. Have looked at the Molot site but cannot find parts. Also dont read RU !!

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Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

And not safety for shooter and people around sad.png

Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.

This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!

 

And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!

 

So how can we buy the Molot Version? Having seen them in action at the World shoot in Hungary I am totally sold. I am based in the UK , So attempting to order anything from a US based supplier is a bust. Is there a RU site that I can order from. Have looked at the Molot site but cannot find parts. Also dont read RU !!

 

 

 

You can buy Ilyne's Muzzle Brake made by Molot, called GK-01, in shooter-shop.ru they have a person in US whom you can contact +1 (347) 257-97-82, E-mail:orders@shooters-shop.ru, Skype: THESOI.

 

Here is topics: What muzzle brake is this?? (PIC)

 

PS Maybe you ask your local Molot dealer to import a couple of dozen for Vepr-12 users.

Edited by PapaZorro
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Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

And not safety for shooter and people around sad.png

Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.

This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!

 

And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!

 

So how can we buy the Molot Version? Having seen them in action at the World shoot in Hungary I am totally sold. I am based in the UK , So attempting to order anything from a US based supplier is a bust. Is there a RU site that I can order from. Have looked at the Molot site but cannot find parts. Also dont read RU !!

 

 

 

You can buy Ilyne's Muzzle Brake made by Molot, called GK-01, in shooter-shop.ru they have a person in US whom you can contact +1 (347) 257-97-82, E-mail:orders@shooters-shop.ru, Skype: THESOI.

 

Here is topics: What muzzle brake is this?? (PIC)

 

PS Maybe you ask your local Molot dealer to import a couple of dozen for Vepr-12 users.

 

Thanks.

Oleg from Rusmilitary is now starting to bring in the Vepr12, to the UK, but due to our gun laws the barrel is 68cm/27" which is really too long. We are allowed 24" barrels, but so far as I know,no one is prepared to shorten the barrel.

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I have no comment on chinese made copies that come apart. Ours are made with the highest quality US material available and tested throughly before they are sold.

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I have no comment on chinese made copies that come apart. Ours are made with the highest quality US material available and tested throughly before they are sold.

On your site is written the following:

 

"MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE

SKU: MOLOT GK-01

Expected to be in stock 2nd week October.

Please send us an email if you would like to be notified when they are available.

 

Saiga 12/VEPR- US Copy of The Russian MOLOT GK-01 brake.

Excellent recoil reduction to keep you on target.

Uses factory threads.

Made in the USA and counts for 1 922r compliant part.

Machined from billet and then Milspec Hard Coat Anodized."

 

I want to remember, that Molot is trademark that belong Molot JSK and GK-01 and its design to Vsevolod Ilyn (Ilin) so you should not call you product MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE, not mention Molot or GK-01. If some of Carolina Shooters Supply muzzle brakes will be damaged or injured someone in the future, customers should accociate them with Carolina Shooters Supply neither with Molot nor GK-01!!!

 

You also missed, have you permission to use Molot from Molot JSC and GK-01 from Vsevolod Ilyn?

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When it comes to aluminum being use in as a muzzle device, as a manufacture I was only comfortable using 7075, which is pretty pricey but has near steel qualities. As far as I know the Chaos Wave break was the first production aluminum brake for the Saiga 12, and I made my first prototypes out of 6061 and found small hair line fractures after 500 rds. using DP testing "Dye-penetrant testing" I'm not saying 6061 can't hold up as a break, but you have to really beef it up where it can fail and as a manufacture, with my name on the line, 7075 was the only choice I could go with!

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I have no comment on chinese made copies that come apart. Ours are made with the highest quality US material available and tested throughly before they are sold.

On your site is written the following:

 

"MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE

SKU: MOLOT GK-01

Expected to be in stock 2nd week October.

Please send us an email if you would like to be notified when they are available.

 

Saiga 12/VEPR- US Copy of The Russian MOLOT GK-01 brake.

Excellent recoil reduction to keep you on target.

Uses factory threads.

Made in the USA and counts for 1 922r compliant part.

Machined from billet and then Milspec Hard Coat Anodized."

 

I want to remember, that Molot is trademark that belong Molot JSK and GK-01 and its design to Vsevolod Ilyn (Ilin) so you should not call you product MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE, not mention Molot or GK-01. If some of Carolina Shooters Supply muzzle brakes will be damaged or injured someone in the future, customers should accociate them with Carolina Shooters Supply neither with Molot nor GK-01!!!

 

You also missed, have you permission to use Molot from Molot JSC and GK-01 from Vsevolod Ilyn?

 

Please read again as it states "US copy of the Molot brake". This is no different than the 10 slot US copy made by DPH or US copy of the Russian bridcage made by Krebs. We made this due to many requests for a US compliant version.

I would be happy to license it from Molot if they would like us to.

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I have no comment on chinese made copies that come apart. Ours are made with the highest quality US material available and tested throughly before they are sold.

On your site is written the following:

 

"MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE

SKU: MOLOT GK-01

Expected to be in stock 2nd week October.

Please send us an email if you would like to be notified when they are available.

 

Saiga 12/VEPR- US Copy of The Russian MOLOT GK-01 brake.

Excellent recoil reduction to keep you on target.

Uses factory threads.

Made in the USA and counts for 1 922r compliant part.

Machined from billet and then Milspec Hard Coat Anodized."

 

I want to remember, that Molot is trademark that belong Molot JSK and GK-01 and its design to Vsevolod Ilyn (Ilin) so you should not call you product MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE, not mention Molot or GK-01. If some of Carolina Shooters Supply muzzle brakes will be damaged or injured someone in the future, customers should accociate them with Carolina Shooters Supply neither with Molot nor GK-01!!!

 

You also missed, have you permission to use Molot from Molot JSC and GK-01 from Vsevolod Ilyn?

 

Please read again as it states "US copy of the Molot brake". This is no different than the 10 slot US copy made by DPH or US copy of the Russian bridcage made by Krebs. We made this due to many requests for a US compliant version.

I would be happy to license it from Molot if they would like us to.

 

Maybe I can not read or understand the following :( :

"MOLOT GK-01 BRAKE

SKU: MOLOT GK-01"

 

I can not see word "Copy"!

 

IMHO you'd better get official drawing and technological documentation from Molot & Ilyn and make licensed copy of GK-01 100% equal to Original in the USA, paying them royalty, or buy aluminum body's of MB from Molot and make own steel liners (that could be adapted not only for Vepr12/Saiga12 but also for other shotguns), assemble them and write Made in USA from original Molot parts.

Edited by PapaZorro
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Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.

And not safety for shooter and people around sad.png

Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.

This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!

 

And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!

 

And don't forget about copyright, Molot pays royalty to Vsevolod Ilyn for every GK-01 they made, pirates that make GK-01 copies - don't!

 

Is there a patent, or is this simply a contractual matter?

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PAPAZ you are correct I did have the title list incorrectly and have updated it. In no way was I trying to make people think this was an original Molot brake. I did have it listed in the description, but I now have highlighted it and added it to the title.

Thank you.

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I have no comment on chinese made copies that come apart. Ours are made with the highest quality US material available and tested throughly before they are sold.

I deal with Greg a lot as he is one of my dealers, very few can stand up to his professionalism, so you can take his statement to the bank!

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PAPAZ you are correct I did have the title list incorrectly and have updated it. In no way was I trying to make people think this was an original Molot brake. I did have it listed in the description, but I now have highlighted it and added it to the title.

Thank you.

Looks more correct IMHO, I've not tried to troll you or anybody else!

 

I'll hope your product will have the same resource as Original Molot GK-01 (more then 20000 shots). I only wont people should understand the difference, and if something will be wrong knows who is responsible for.

 

Here are contacts of Molot, if you don't know smile.png.

 

PS Other then Saiga-12/Vepr-12 GK-01 appliance

5086517.jpg

Edited by PapaZorro
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