iansdad 0 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Hey, all! Been lurking for a couple years and figured it's time to "take the plunge." I've read all the conversion guides as well as various projects that people have documented... but all the info I can find seems to be a couple years old now. I was wondering if anything's changed in the last year or two. Also, for those of you who've already converted, what would you do differently if you were doing it again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I stopped using retaing plates and started using shepperds crooks. The BHO doesn't need to be modded(slotted for the safety) when using the shepperds crook, and is easy to to install if done with the butt stock off. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I heard good things about shepherd's crooks from an experienced AK guy at a shop. He didn't have any S12 experience but speculated that they might benefit from one so I bought one from him for ten bucks. I didn't figure it'd be any use with an unconverted S12 though, so it's still sitting in a drawer... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lewie212 37 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Check CSS for a kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AtlSaiga 25 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Check CSS for a kit. quoted for truth. you aren't going to get anything better for the price Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Well if you're like me, you don't have a lot of cash but you do have plenty of tools and workspace. If that's the case, you can re-use the trigger guard. It is truly a pain, but it's paid for so why not use it? Lots of threads on doing that... If I were to go back and do my last conversion over, I'd have gotten a regular double hook G2. Takes some doing, but you can modify the second hook to act as an over-travel limiter. If you have a grinder or a dremel and some patience, you can make it fit your S12 and save a few bucks. That's about all I can think of to cut corners. There's really not much to skimp on. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Check CSS for a kit. Check CSS for a kit. quoted for truth. you aren't going to get anything better for the price Thanks for the heads-up. They appear to have quite a selection. Unfortunately, I don't have enough practical experience to know what to look for in a stock. Any recommendation on what might offer the best value (reliability for the money) in something suitable for a guy with long arms and shoulders that are probably slightly broader than average (approx 75" fingertip to fingertip)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Well if you're like me, you don't have a lot of cash but you do have plenty of tools and workspace. I don't have squat in the way of either but I do have a good friend with a machine shop so any any cutting and welding isn't a problem; one thing he doesn't have though is any sandblasting or glassbeading equipment so I suppose I'll have to pay someone if I want to prep the parts properly before duracoating/durabaking... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyDingDongs 158 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I don't have squat in the way of either but I do have a good friend with a machine shop so any any cutting and welding isn't a problem; one thing he doesn't have though is any sandblasting or glassbeading equipment so I suppose I'll have to pay someone if I want to prep the parts properly before duracoating/durabaking... Bummer. Similar to my case then. I work in a factory but our machine shop is in a different building and we outsource our sandblasting. I can cut and weld all I want, but not properly refinish and I don't trust any of these hilljacks around here to do it for me. As far as stocks go.. I'm a fan of ACE stocks and a tiny guy. The 7.5" with a folder ( +1") is perfect for me. I believe they make up to a 9.5", but it's been awhile since I looked. My guess would be that your longest option would be an AR style stock. As far as what to look for.. Don't cheap out on this part. Tapco was the cheapest when I did my first one, so I skimped... And regretted it. YMMV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheJoe90 27 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I like the conversion kits from CSS because you can upgrade the pistol grip for a very fair price! I like the ATI "Scorpion" grip on my own weapon. Also, I remember being really worried about the ugly mismatched paint when I did my conversion, but once its put back together, you'll never know! If I can do it, you can too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I heard good things about shepherd's crooks from an experienced AK guy at a shop. He didn't have any S12 experience but speculated that they might benefit from one so I bought one from him for ten bucks. I didn't figure it'd be any use with an unconverted S12 though, so it's still sitting in a drawer... I'm really confused about this statement. The unconverted S12 has a shepherd's crook in it. Also, it's a 2 dollar part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I heard good things about shepherd's crooks from an experienced AK guy at a shop. He didn't have any S12 experience but speculated that they might benefit from one so I bought one from him for ten bucks. I didn't figure it'd be any use with an unconverted S12 though, so it's still sitting in a drawer... I'm really confused about this statement. The unconverted S12 has a shepherd's crook in it. Also, it's a 2 dollar part. The stock S!2 doesnt have a bulgarian style crook.No need to modify or buy modified retaining plate & BHO when using one. And youre right. it's a $2 part. Edited October 1, 2012 by Jetmech Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Also, I remember being really worried about the ugly mismatched paint when I did my conversion, but once its put back together, you'll never know! Just for shits & grins, I practiced removing the "match-striker" on the right side of a spare receiver I have where they marked out the old RAA marks, then after 70 grit Aluminum Oxide blasting that section for texture, I hit the area with Duplicolor Low Gloss black engine enamel, fading into the factory paint, and I'll be damned if I can see the transition it matches so well. Just hit the bare spots with MEK or acetone to remove oil, mask a touch, and one's money for a nearly unnoticeable touch-up after a DIY conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I heard good things about shepherd's crooks from an experienced AK guy at a shop. He didn't have any S12 experience but speculated that they might benefit from one so I bought one from him for ten bucks. I didn't figure it'd be any use with an unconverted S12 though, so it's still sitting in a drawer... I'm really confused about this statement. The unconverted S12 has a shepherd's crook in it. Also, it's a 2 dollar part. The stock S!2 doesnt have a bulgarian style crook.No need to modify or buy modified retaining plate & BHO when using one. And youre right. it's a $2 part. Well then, sounds like I'm the one who's confused (that won't be a first). Flat, black metal piece about 2.5" long, hole in one end, notch in the other forming a hook? I was having trigger issues (this was a couple years ago) and took it to this guy; he couldn't fix it but he tried and didn't charge me anything so when he recommended the part, I felt a little obligated to buy something. If I can find the thing, I'll snap a pic of it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I stopped using retaing plates and started using shepperds crooks. The BHO doesn't need to be modded(slotted for the safety) when using the shepperds crook, and is easy to to install if done with the butt stock off. I vote dead opposite here. And clip .25" off of the BHO. I'd do an RSA trigger or modded double hook G2 for short throw every time. Use fine quality diamond stones &/or ceramic whetstone to polish engagement surfaces. G2 is the cheap route. With skill, factory trigger guard is fine, and make or mod the safety stop. It needs two screws or rivets to be solid in the front. Rivets are nicer if you can. I think I would still cut the PG nut hole. For a very basic build, KVAR Warsaw length is pretty good looking and feeling. Most any AK furniture works, for other nice feels, but you will spend more on other parts trying to get your 922r count down. You can lookup my IZ108 build on my gallery for a very cheap shopping list for using imported furniture. Mods worth doing while you are at it: punching 3 marks in the safety scratch. so it clicks: 1 Full safe, 2 Fire, 3 a mid point where you can't fire, but the action can be cycled. bump the punch marks with a drill bit or countersink to make them cleaner. Rivet a little tab onto your safety to make it easily reachable with your index finger. Anneal the metal 1st and use cobalt bit. (ditto for factory trigger guard.) Gain a nearly free compliance part with your Izzy 5s or 8s by tracing the floor plates on thin sheet metal and cutting out replacements. If you hunt or go to a range with magazine limits, make a block of wood to space down your magazine. Just plan on using some acetone and sandpaper to slick up the rails inside. It's worth it. Big gains for small effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Looks something like this? Edited October 1, 2012 by Too Many F'ing Hobbies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I heard good things about shepherd's crooks from an experienced AK guy at a shop. He didn't have any S12 experience but speculated that they might benefit from one so I bought one from him for ten bucks. I didn't figure it'd be any use with an unconverted S12 though, so it's still sitting in a drawer... I'm really confused about this statement. The unconverted S12 has a shepherd's crook in it. Also, it's a 2 dollar part. The stock S!2 doesnt have a bulgarian style crook.No need to modify or buy modified retaining plate & BHO when using one. And youre right. it's a $2 part. Well then, sounds like I'm the one who's confused (that won't be a first). Flat, black metal piece about 2.5" long, hole in one end, notch in the other forming a hook? I was having trigger issues (this was a couple years ago) and took it to this guy; he couldn't fix it but he tried and didn't charge me anything so when he recommended the part, I felt a little obligated to buy something. If I can find the thing, I'll snap a pic of it... That sounds like a BHO, but you could be describing a retaining plate. Here are the common retaining devises: Here is a basic picture that explans how to use a double hook Tapco G2 and 20 minutes worth of work to have a very nice trigger without extra play. If you can't understand how this works by looking at the picture and then actuating the parts in your gun, then you probably should not attempt it. Allow substantially more than absolute minimums for safety. Edited October 1, 2012 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) The "shepherd's crook" you guys are referring to must be that braided wire gizmo... shows what I know. Edited October 1, 2012 by Too Many F'ing Hobbies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Looks something like this? Oh ok. Yeah that is a retaining plate. That is what I used for my conversion and I am happy with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 The "shepherd's crook" you guys are referring to must be that braided wire gizmo... shows what I know. Shepherds crook is just another name for the wire that retains the pins. Serves the same function as a retaining plate. The braided wire is the hammer spring. Have you bought your gun yet that you are going to convert? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iansdad 0 Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Have you bought your gun yet that you are going to convert? Yep, I've had it for a couple years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 The "shepherd's crook" you guys are referring to must be that braided wire gizmo... shows what I know. Most are referring to the Tromix brand retaining spring, which is basically the same as the Bulgarian style pictured in my post above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I just re bent the factory shepards crook similar to the chinese L wire. Works good so far. Also built my own forgrip and stock from things I found in my shop. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Hey, all! Been lurking for a couple years and figured it's time to "take the plunge." I've read all the conversion guides as well as various projects that people have documented... but all the info I can find seems to be a couple years old now. I was wondering if anything's changed in the last year or two. Also, for those of you who've already converted, what would you do differently if you were doing it again? What I did differently from the first time, was I didn't notch the BHO with or without the retaining plate. I still don't understand how modding the BHO caught on so much, as it unnecessary, and to me just as easy as installing being unmodified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olsn500 4 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I did the budget conversion on my S12. The whole thing top to bottom ran me about a 100 bucks to be compliant. That in hindsight was a mistake. What I should have done was eat the shipping costs and slowly bought the parts I really wanted and did the conversion with those. I love shooting my Saiga, but the CSS trigger guard is so cool and has a built in grip nut. I would have bought a skeleton full length stock instead of a Warsaw length AK stock. Reason is better pads are available for recoil and my arms are kinda long, I think I would have better cheek to stock weld with that too. Double hook trigger so that I could mod it, I bought the tapco single because I am an AK owner and thats what I understood and had experience with. I think I also would have coated all the parts professionally before I assembled. The auto paint matches great but just doesn't hold up over time. I would have got a nice heavy break instead of the cheapest thing I could find to cover the threads. Now don't get me wrong, I did all my own work on this gun and shooting it has been some of the most fun I ever had with a weapon, but I do have some regrets on the route I took. Don't let your wallet do all the talking. You have waited a year to convert, a little more time won't matter that much. I guess biggest thing though is to enjoy the experience of creating your own. It will always be yours! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 , you can re-use the trigger guard. It is truly a pain, but it's paid for so why not use it? over-travel limiter. ya, the welds in the TG are a pain, but its only 1 rivet instead of 4, when it goes to reinstallation right? and as far as an OTlimiter, i have usedthat lil grey L piece thas basically a spacer in the disconnector area... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hey, all! Been lurking for a couple years and figured it's time to "take the plunge." I've read all the conversion guides as well as various projects that people have documented... but all the info I can find seems to be a couple years old now. I was wondering if anything's changed in the last year or two. Also, for those of you who've already converted, what would you do differently if you were doing it again? What I did differently from the first time, was I didn't notch the BHO with or without the retaining plate. I still don't understand how modding the BHO caught on so much, as it unnecessary, and to me just as easy as installing being unmodified. Modding the BHO was quick and easy. Getting the shepard's crook in was near impossible without tweaking it and clipping a tiny bit off the end. , you can re-use the trigger guard. It is truly a pain, but it's paid for so why not use it? over-travel limiter. ya, the welds in the TG are a pain, but its only 1 rivet instead of 4, when it goes to reinstallation right? and as far as an OTlimiter, i have usedthat lil grey L piece thas basically a spacer in the disconnector area... Cobalt bit costs $2... 3 rivets: 1 at the back, one through the front of TG and safety stop, 1 more through safety stop so it can't swivel. Use a punch, hammer and a few good blows. Oh, and I did mine with screws. I may rivet later in place of the screws. I have riveted other parts with little difficulty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hey, all! Been lurking for a couple years and figured it's time to "take the plunge." I've read all the conversion guides as well as various projects that people have documented... but all the info I can find seems to be a couple years old now. I was wondering if anything's changed in the last year or two. Also, for those of you who've already converted, what would you do differently if you were doing it again? What I did differently from the first time, was I didn't notch the BHO with or without the retaining plate. I still don't understand how modding the BHO caught on so much, as it unnecessary, and to me just as easy as installing being unmodified. Modding the BHO was quick and easy. Getting the shepard's crook in was near impossible without tweaking it and clipping a tiny bit off the end. 1/4 inch needs to be cut and a slight bend at the end.The shepperds crook seems easy to install with needle nose pliers and a flat bladed screwdriver if done before the butt stock is attached. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I think this may be an area that varies from gun to gun. I did just that, and it wanted to snag on stuff under the hammer pin and pop out of the groove. Also it was a bit too long and hit the block in front of the hammer axis pin before coming home. after I clipped off 1/8" it worked. I've heard others report the identical thing about hitting that block 1/8" too soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajk 8 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Ok guys I just bought a complete conversion kit from CSS, and I bought the retaining plate and a modified bho lever. Did I waste my $$$$ on these two things?(retaining plate/mod. Bho) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.