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Is the AK platform the best to have here in the USA?


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I'd like to hear from each of you personally why or why not our preferred firearm would be the best thing to have if the world as we know it turns upside down. To me it's clear that if it all goes to hell, for obvious reasons, the AR platform and the 5.56 ammo would probably be easier to find, but beyond that what other disadvantages would AK owners face? What advantages would we have? In the event of some crazy natural disaster, why would our guns be better or worse. The idea with this question is not to start a shit storm or AK vs AR thread, but to help identify as many variables as possible. With that, maybe some of us could chime in with ways to get around the negative ones.

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I'm not the most highly educated respondent on this question but from a personal stand point I would suggest one of each.

 

The ak platform is the most widely used weapon world wide. At this point I also think it's ammo is the cheapest. On the other hand, the AR 5.56 is more accurate at longer ranges. The thing i like about ak's is you can get them dirty, wet, ect. and 9 times out of 10 they will still operate without failure.

 

I love AR's also but they need cared for like an infant. That being said, they will perform perfectly when needed. I think both rounds, (7.62x39 & 5.56) will both be commonly available unless some SHTF scenario would arise. That is why I keep thousands of rounds on stand by.big_smile.gif

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want long range? Get a bolt gun.

I wouldn't count on any ammo you don't already have stored. Mags either.

Ak's are common place enough now that parts and ammo will be possible to find.

They make .223/556 ak's.

Ak's are tough to stop. You can clean and lube them with anything.

Urban enviroment is going to be most likely close range engagments where the longer range acuracy of the AR is less likely to be a decideing factor.

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AR vs AK and all that aside, if you're in a situation where you actually NEED that type of gun to make it out alive, any single one of them is going to be better than nothing.

 

If you're worried about finding spare parts, magazines, etc. you're already in a pretty bad situation and I don't think you're going to be much better off when your gun starts to work again.

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If anybody can show me a theater that the offspring of the M-16 has ever held for the long haul, I'm all ears.

 

Barefoot fools with AKs generally tend to eventually come out on top...

 

Why you ask?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE

 

 

Because it's the people's gun.

It's not a maintenance whore like the AR.

 

Today we train very few riflemen. Most of our troops are intentionally trained to depend on $1,500.00 optics, overwhelming force, and massive amounts of FA suppressive fire.

They are scared of making warriors who can sustain without constant supply replenishment, therefore the globalists hate the AK...

Which is why I love it.

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Today we train very few riflemen. Most of our troops are intentionally trained to depend on $1,500.00 optics, overwhelming force, and massive amounts of FA suppressive fire.

Are you referring to our Military? I don't know where you are getting that. Rifle Marksmanship is focused on more nowadays than it ever was. The $1,500 optic is a result of the terrain we are currently fighting in, (ACOG). Whether you are running an optic or not, you still have to have the skills to effectively engage and hit targets. I regards to the OP, I'm all about the AK platform in terms of reliability and lack of maintenance needed in austere conditions. As far as ammo goes, if you don't already have it, scrounging for some is going to be a shitty task.

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Maybe your experience is different than that of friends & clients of mine, but according to multiple people I talk to, they're telling me that their experience is, yeah, sure, marines get a lot of rifle training, but half the regular army's spending more tome reading the ACOG manual, and every engagement they have is always overwhelming force against very few.

 

Last customer I was talking to over here who just recently got back from Iraq was telling me that he'd be lucky to fire 30 rounds when training.

 

Also, then there's the paper written by Ralph peters for the Army war college that for the fucking life of me I can't find now which says specifically that the warrior class is a very big threat, and US soldiers must be kept from evolving into what he refers to as actual warriors.

It's the paper where Peters was specifically noting that ex commanders of soviet military and veterans of the Baltic wars are potentially dangerous, as they can provide leadership for unorganized forces, and comprise a good deal of the world's mercenaries.

If anybody knows the paper I speak of and can find the link, cue in. I can't find the damn thing now, but it was a very fascinating read.

 

ETA;

Bing! smile.png

Found it;

http://www.carlisle....1994/peters.htm

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AK in 7.62, AK in 5.56 and an AR in 5.56. Lots of spare parts out there. Putting together my christmas AR, I cant believe all the tiny parts involved. I cant imagine needing to repair one in TEOTWAKI if you are not a trained armorer. However, if I was scrounging for food/supplies all day, I would rather be dragging my 5.5# AR around.

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I want to know why most people would take the ammo lying on the ground and leave the weapon that shoots it. And if its coming from a corpse, then chances are whoever made the fucker a corpse wont be far from them and would have likely taken the weapon and ammo already. Unless its like Dad pointed out, and using it as bait.

 

Id rather have a spare weapon as a whole than to have a few parts. Chances are, there will not be much ammo lying around. We will likely only have what we already got, or are able to barter for.

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Maybe your experience is different than that of friends & clients of mine, but according to multiple people I talk to, they're telling me that their experience is, yeah, sure, marines get a lot of rifle training, but half the regular army's spending more tome reading the ACOG manual, and every engagement they have is always overwhelming force against very few.

 

Last customer I was talking to over here who just recently got back from Iraq was telling me that he'd be lucky to fire 30 rounds when training.

 

Also, then there's the paper written by Ralph peters for the Army war college that for the fucking life of me I can't find now which says specifically that the warrior class is a very big threat, and US soldiers must be kept from evolving into what he refers to as actual warriors.

It's the paper where Peters was specifically noting that ex commanders of soviet military and veterans of the Baltic wars are potentially dangerous, as they can provide leadership for unorganized forces, and comprise a good deal of the world's mercenaries.

If anybody knows the paper I speak of and can find the link, cue in. I can't find the damn thing now, but it was a very fascinating read.

 

ETA;

Bing! smile.png

Found it;

http://www.carlisle....1994/peters.htm

 

I'm going to agree with Pauly on this one. Marines ARE allowed to qualify with an ACOG. While I was in the regular army(the time before reddot sights) we trained and qualified with irons. When I went into the SPECOPS community we went to the Eotech and after a couple years we were allowed to qualify with them. Hitting a target at distance with an optic should not be an issue and if it is then your fundamentals need work. Now as for me I'll use my optic but I will have a set of irons for when the optic either fails or if the target is too close.

 

As for this little question/debate I'd have to go with both. Obviously you would find more AR parts in the US but the world has WAY more AK parts/ammo. It all depends on the situation you find yourself.

 

Today we train very few riflemen. Most of our troops are intentionally trained to depend on $1,500.00 optics, overwhelming force, and massive amounts of FA suppressive fire.

Are you referring to our Military? I don't know where you are getting that. Rifle Marksmanship is focused on more nowadays than it ever was. The $1,500 optic is a result of the terrain we are currently fighting in, (ACOG). Whether you are running an optic or not, you still have to have the skills to effectively engage and hit targets. I regards to the OP, I'm all about the AK platform in terms of reliability and lack of maintenance needed in austere conditions. As far as ammo goes, if you don't already have it, scrounging for some is going to be a shitty task.

 

Ask your son what he's using when he gets "on line" and what hes allowed to qualify with.

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One potential weakness that I see in our preferred system is corrosion resistance. I've often wondered just how long a stamped steel rifle will endure in moist environments. I know that the AR with it's aluminum parts SHOULD endure better in this type of environment. But overall ruggedness is won hands down by the AK as is the intimidation factor.

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One potential weakness that I see in our preferred system is corrosion resistance. I've often wondered just how long a stamped steel rifle will endure in moist environments. I know that the AR with it's aluminum parts SHOULD endure better in this type of environment. But overall ruggedness is won hands down by the AK as is the intimidation factor.

 

The AK performed well in the jungle, desert, mountains lots of people who are no longer with us can attest to that

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IMO go to the sporting goods stores and take a survay of the most common ammo you can find and get the gun AK or other that uses it where ever you plan on being when the SHTF. Fair enough? This is'nt a country where every other 9yr old carries an Ak after all.

Edited by rnemhrd
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The AK performs in every theater of war in every corner of the globe with very positive results reguarding performance. Theres not any climate conditions that I can think of that will make them fail, that other weapons will continue to perform. Its #1 for a reason. It takes many elements for a weapon to be effective in combat, and the AK covers them all very well.

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So you want some variables huh? K these are the ones I know.

 

AR: Modularity. It's a pretty sweet deal in that respect.

 

Uniformity: ARs are pretty close to blueprint specs. Why? Americans like stuff that is exact. Anything that isn't is subject to being branded as crap, monkey with a wrench type of stuff, etc. We Americans are kinna OCD like that.

Parts availability: Shit wears out. Period. It's not a video game out there and eventually you may need mag springs, hammer springs and shit. AKs have to be imported despite the fact that even in the US they are everywhere and here to stay. AR nudges ahead in this category, maybe not by much though

Accuracy: The AR is more or less pretty accurate right out of the box. However, this seems to be changing as AK manufacturers and owners are continually pushing the envelope for better accuracy from their AKs. Truth is, AKs are catching up.

 

 

AK: Dependability: Everyone and their mother knows this one, short of running it over with a tank or getting a sorry shotty Kyber Pass copy not up to specs, it WILL fire. Everyone here has heard the saying, "It will go bang the first time, everytime."

 

Durability: This pretty much almost goes along with the Dependability thing but I'll mention it anyway. It's built like a hand held tank, so are the moving parts. It'll take you to hell and back and beg for more and it has, many times over in third world hell holes the world over.

 

Simplicity of Design: It's so easy, illiterate people in third world countries make copies of them and some of them know enough about what they're doing that their copies actually work. This is a design that you can build from nothing, literally. It's like the combat rifle version of the famous Grease Gun of WWII, you can build them and lots of them if you want. The AR, you need the right kind of aluminum alloy for the receivers.

 

Ability to train: The AK takes less time for the average person to train them to use it properly. Most people get the notch sights almost right off the bat, the safety is also just as simple as the AR. The sights are even old-guy friendly too. My dad has glaucoma in his eye and he can't see too good as he is near sighted (like myself) but he can see the sights on my WASR and my VEPR really well. It is, as mentioned before, the rifle of the people. "So easy I child could use it and they often do."

 

Those are the ones I know.

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So you want some variables huh? K these are the ones I know.

 

AR: Modularity. It's a pretty sweet deal in that respect.

 

Uniformity: ARs are pretty close to blueprint specs. Why? Americans like stuff that is exact. Anything that isn't is subject to being branded as crap, monkey with a wrench type of stuff, etc. We Americans are kinna OCD like that.

Parts availability: Shit wears out. Period. It's not a video game out there and eventually you may need mag springs, hammer springs and shit. AKs have to be imported despite the fact that even in the US they are everywhere and here to stay. AR nudges ahead in this category, maybe not by much though

Accuracy: The AR is more or less pretty accurate right out of the box. However, this seems to be changing as AK manufacturers and owners are continually pushing the envelope for better accuracy from their AKs. Truth is, AKs are catching up.

 

 

AK: Dependability: Everyone and their mother knows this one, short of running it over with a tank or getting a sorry shotty Kyber Pass copy not up to specs, it WILL fire. Everyone here has heard the saying, "It will go bang the first time, everytime."

 

Durability: This pretty much almost goes along with the Dependability thing but I'll mention it anyway. It's built like a hand held tank, so are the moving parts. It'll take you to hell and back and beg for more and it has, many times over in third world hell holes the world over.

 

Simplicity of Design: It's so easy, illiterate people in third world countries make copies of them and some of them know enough about what they're doing that their copies actually work. This is a design that you can build from nothing, literally. It's like the combat rifle version of the famous Grease Gun of WWII, you can build them and lots of them if you want. The AR, you need the right kind of aluminum alloy for the receivers.

 

Ability to train: The AK takes less time for the average person to train them to use it properly. Most people get the notch sights almost right off the bat, the safety is also just as simple as the AR. The sights are even old-guy friendly too. My dad has glaucoma in his eye and he can't see too good as he is near sighted (like myself) but he can see the sights on my WASR and my VEPR really well. It is, as mentioned before, the rifle of the people. "So easy I child could use it and they often do."

 

Those are the ones I know.

 

Very well put sir.

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Great set of examples Shadow. The only one I might disagree with is the sights. I've converted over to the TWS peep sight on one of my AK's and love it. I have a lot of trouble focusing on the leaf sight now that I'm older. As a young man though, it would not have been a problem.

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If you are proficient with a rifle and you know how to and have the means to maintain it (i.e. spare parts, tools, etc.), it doesn't matter what design it is.

 

Here is all you need:

  • Get a thousand rounds of tested and quality ammo along with 4 new, but tested, magazines for the weapons platform you prefer and sock it all away in a preserved manner.
  • Learn how your weapon functions and how it is disassembled, assembled and maintained from the ground up
  • Determine the critical wear parts for your weapon and obtain these parts and any necessary tools to replace them before they are needed
  • Practice drills with dummy ammo for misfires, misfeeds and other likely failures so you become proficient at overcoming them
  • Practice magazine swaps and manual of arms
  • Carry your weapon on a 2-5 mile hike over various terrain in your area and streamline the platform accordingly
  • Learn & Practice how to hit what you aim at instinctively and when using an appropriate sighting system
  • Learn & Practice Trigger discipline

AK's and AR's are good to go and each have benefits and disadvantages that can be overcome with the above steps.

Edited by BuffetDestroyer
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Great set of examples Shadow. The only one I might disagree with is the sights. I've converted over to the TWS peep sight on one of my AK's and love it. I have a lot of trouble focusing on the leaf sight now that I'm older. As a young man though, it would not have been a problem.

 

Good point. I was aware when I stated that that there might be an exception to that out there. That's the cool part about the AK. You can design one to fit you. I have on one of mine a TWS top cover and sight. It works very well close up for me but I'm having issues at further distances, the peep sight is not as small as I would like. A shortened Galil sight to be used with the factory sight would work well for my eyes but maybe not yours or someone with a similar eyesight as yours.

 

Top cover is an easy issue to fix as far as losing zero when you rig one up, you dimple it (like the safety), create a dowel and flatten a section of the top cover and if you can find or make a sight you can use, mock it up, check your math and placing, then weld the sight on your top cover. If you do it all right, the top cover shouldn't rattle to lose zero and should still be easy to remove.

 

The AR is even easier, if you're like me, you just get a standalone A2 sight (The one without a carry handle) and put it on the back of your rail and make sure it's on nice and tight. :)

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The AR, you need the right kind of aluminum alloy for the receivers.

 

Actually, mine is made from plastic, and people have built wooden ones as well. As CNC machines become more popular, they are getting easier and easier.

 

IMO go to the sporting goods stores and take a survay of the most common ammo you can find and get the gun AK or other that uses it where ever you plan on being when the SHTF. Fair enough? This is'nt a country where every other 9yr old carries an Ak after all.

 

Im getting a .22!

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