5.45x39mm reloading for the deer hunter

[Marc 147]

I have wanted to use my AK-74 (a WASR-2) for deer hunting for awhile now but I am not happy with any of the available "hunting" ammo nor did I want to hunt with my surplus 7n6 FMJ (not legal in...just about everywhere). Without a source of decent soft point ammo and plenty of other caliber rifles to hunt deer with it wasn't a priority until my wife decided she wanted to try hunting deer, and my 74 is the only rifle she enjoys shooting, and so my quest began...

 

...and the following is what I came up with.

 

 

Disclaimer: The following procedure and load data has proven to ME to be perfectly safe in MY rifle, I have zero control over your reloading practices or your components and am in no way responsible for any damage to you or your rifle.

 

Now then, (stating the obvious here) the necessary components to reload any caliber are: cases, primers, powder and projectiles while the basic tools need are powder measure and some form of bullet seater. The current problem with reloading 5.45x39 is that reloadable cases, properly sized bullets and a bullet seater are not available here in the U.S...this is where a little good ole' ingenuity comes in.

 

Cases: The only answer to obtaining reloadable cases is to "pull" your own, conveniently, pulled cases also provide you with a seated primer.

 

I started with loaded ammo, this is surplus Bulgarian 7n6.

 

The force required to pull military bullets caused my kinetic bullet puller to crack so I had to come up with another way. This is my "collet" bullet puller...there is a washer between the press and the vice grips to protect the press. I was not worried about damaging the bullets.

 

Dump the powder charge, make sure if you keep this make sure you label the container you put it in as to what it is and what it is NOT!

 

Here are 30 primed cases already de-burred and ready for reloading, along with the pulled powder and 7n6 bullets.

 

Bullets: Another problem for the 5.45 reloader is obtaining properly sized bullets. 5.45 bullets are a 22 caliber bullet, however, they measure .221 in diameter whereas American 22 caliber is .224 in diameter, to big to safely fire in a 5.45 in my book. The only answer here is to resize your favorite, readily available 22 bullets.

 

These are 64 gr. Winchester Power Point bullets, a traditional construction flat base soft point with a time proven track record for bringing in White-tails and other medium game.

 

This is my resizing die, all it is is a short 5/8" grade 5 bolt with a #2 drill hole through it. I center drilled, then drilled an undersized hole first then finished with a brand new #2 drill...it just so happens to make a perfectly sized hole for resizing your bullets. De-burr both ends of the hole and lightly chamfer the "start" side of the hole.

I where my "Garand Thumb" badge with pride, also .

 

The rest of the bullet resizing tools; a hammer, 1/8" drift punch and wax toilet ring "bullet resizing lube", you will also need a bench vise to hold the resizing die.

 

Get a good coating of wax lube on the bullet and start it point down into the size die.

 

Gently drive it flush.

[Marc 147]

Then gently drive it the rest of the way through with the drift punch.

 

An alternative method would be to chuck the drift punch in a drill press and use it like an arbor press to gently push the bullets through the die, instead of driving them.

 

Pile of resized Power Points in background, foreground is 7n6 bullet on left, resized PP in the middle and a "standard" PP on the right.

 

Resized PP bullet measures .221

 

The resizing process lifts a tiny ridge of copper around the base of the bullet, so I very lightly take it off with my case de-burring tool.

 

From here on the reloading process is fairly straight-forward, with the exception of not having any reloading data! However, after multiple internet searches and independent research I found that the case capacity for the 5.45x39 and 222 Remington are the same...27 grains of water. That means you have a safe starting point using 222 Rem data. I got my 222 data from Hodgdon's website and I chose H335 as my powder as I get good results with it in my 223.

 

Hodgdon gives a start load of H335 for a 63 gr bullet as 19.8 gr and a max load of 22 gr. I worked up to the max load listed and saw none of the obvious signs of over pressure on fired cases and got an average velocity of about 2600 fps on my chronograph. I felt confident enough that I worked up to a 23 grain charge of H335 and still no signs of over pressure. I didn't gain any more velocity from the extra grain of powder, but what it did do was bring the chrono'd velocity deviations to near zero!

 

Accuracy was also very promising, at 25 yards my initial sight in shots where on top of each other! This rifle has never been that accurate!

 

Seating the bullets: Beleave it or not a 223 bullet seating die will work for 5.45x39mm! The adjuster nob is just about bottomed out but it works!

When I discovered that I had a huge sigh of relief because what I was doing to seat the bullets was time consuming and just about impossible to be repeatable.

 

A 223 crimp die will not work however, so instead of a crimp I seated the bullets with a little red Lock Tite on them. This should provide plenty of hold for hunting purposes, as well as add some waterproofing back to the case mouth and help prevent the tiny ring of now exposed steel from rusting.

 

Seat them to an over all length of about 2.140 (I say about 2.140 because the lead points on these bullets are not all that uniform in shape so there will be some deviation) and wipe off any excess Lock Tite.

ETA: Seating these Winchester PP bullets to an OAL of 2.140 sets the ogive below that of the 7n6 bullet, giving the PP bullet some freebore before engaging the rifling, thus preventing and overpressure situation from the sharper ogive jamming into the minimal lead in the throat of a 5.45x39 chamber.

 

30 rounds of 5.45x39 hunting ammo ready to go!

 

To recap my load:

 

Pulled Bulgarian 7n6 cases with primers.

23 grains Hodgdon H335.

64 grain Winchester Power Point bullets resized to .221 diameter.

seated to O.A.L of ~2.140

 

Initial chrono data: 2604 fps

 

More detailed chronograph data and 100 yard accuracy results to follow soon as time and weather permits!

Edited October 20, 2012 by Barnett3006

[Marc 147]

Note: I initially started experimenting with pulled Wolf cases, however I was plagued with dead Wolf primers. I have always heard about dead primers in Wolf ammo but never experienced them until now, I'm not sure if using the kinetic puller caused the priming compound to shake out or what but it was just to unreliable...something like 2 out of 5 where dead, so that is why I went to using surplus military pulled cases.

[termite 463]

No neck sizing of the cases? You do know that Loctite has to be exposed to air to set up, any inside the case shouldn't set up according to OEM, but there again, it may if the bullet is loose.

[Marc 147]

Nope, no neck sizing as the neck was never expanded and the bullets fit like they should as if it where a neck re-sized brass case. I am probably just being paranoid when I decided to use the lock tite. In experimenting to get to this point I loaded several cases without loc tite and they worked just fine. The loc tite dries just fine, it made it very difficult to recover the bullets from the Wolf cases with dead primers and left crusty loc tite residue on the bullet and case mouth.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I would have tried somehow to run the bullets UP THROUGH the bolt in the press... I bet you could get a resizing die, and reloading dies from LEE PRECISION... Just call them... and they can custom make you just about anything for MINIMAL COST!!!!

 

I have one for the 50 BMG to resize military pulled bullets to put them back into "round".... Workds AWESOME!!!!!

 

 

[Marc 147]

Indy, eventually I want to have Lee make me the dies and even get some forming dies so that I can make 5.45 brass out of 223 brass. However the minimal cost is outside my budget right now, so if I wanted to get this done I had to do with what I have.

[IndyArms 10,186]

WOW...

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/527524/rcbs-2-die-set-545x39mm-russian

 

Thats pretty pricey, considering MOST two die sets are ONLY about $25.00 bucks!!!!

 

[Marc 147]

It's nice to see that someone is making 5.45 dies on a production level instead of custom jobbers only, but there still isn't a ready source for brass...or even steel cases that use boxer primers, So one would still need forming dies.

 

I think I have a short piece of 7/8x14 tpi stainless threaded rod somewhere, if I can find it I will make myself a good bullet re-sizing die for my press with the lathe I have access to.

 

The point of my thread was to get some more 5.45 reloading data out there and to show that it could done without the purchase of additional special made equipment in the hopes that it would help others out.

 

I was/am excited about it anyway and plan to expand the load data and chrono results with a few other powders I've got on hand as time allows...and hopefully put some meat in the freezer along the way as well.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Often , Case forming can be done with LIGHT powder loads and something to create a pressure spike without the danger of a projectile lodged in the barrel, and "fireform" the brass that way from something else... Trick is, you gotta have a case that will FIT into the end results chamber to begin with... 222 brass is a good starting point that you could use to form 5.45X39 with the die set... Then fireform to get them perfect...

 

Quoted from another page on the net... not MY experiences... just whats written... YMMV, ETC...

 

There are no brass 5.45x39mm cases on the planet. But I resize new 222 Remington brass in a RCBS 5.45x39mm dies and trim to length. Resize.224" bullets in a Lee .221" lube & size die. Then load them with a powder charge half way between the 221 Rem Fireball and 222 Rem for the bullet weight I am using. The 5.45x39mm case capacity is 1/2 way between the two. I sent some 5.45x39mm ammo I made with Hornady 68gr HPBT match bullets to a guy in California. He got sub 1" groups at 100 yards from his East German SSG-85 bolt action 5.45x39mm rifle. I shot them in one of my Romanian CUR-2 AK rifles but was really only concerned about feeding/function and fire-forming the brass. I have reloaded the cases twice and only lost 3 of 100 to case splits.

 

 

[Marc 147]

Thanks for posting that, now that I read it again I remember reading that thread a few years ago with I first got the rifle and was looking for reloading info on it.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Its too bad they DONT yet make any .221 bullets. .. Reloading is coming a long way and moving in leaps and bounds these day!!!

Obviously not EVERYWHERE though...

 

[ironhead7544 35]

Had one of those Century Tantals with the oversized bore. Measured .224. Got in on a group buy of Lee 5.45x39 dies. Pulled bullets the same way you did for primed cases. Loaded the 75 gr Hornady AMax bullets. Worked great and was very accurate.

 

Going to try your bullet sizing method for my other rifles.

 

One thing you didnt mention is that you need to adjust the bullet to the barrel throat. There is not much of a leade in a 5.45x39 chamber. Some bullets may be too long.

 

I was thinking of using my Saiga this year for deer. Will try your 64 gr Winchester bullet load.

 

CH4D also lists dies.

Edited October 20, 2012 by ironhead7544

[Marc 147]

Had one of those Century Tantals with the oversized bore. Measured .224. Got in on a group buy of Lee 5.45x39 dies. Pulled bullets the same way you did for primed cases. Loaded the 75 gr Hornady AMax bullets. Worked great and was very accurate.

 

Going to try your bullet sizing method for my other rifles.

 

One thing you didnt mention is that you need to adjust the bullet to the barrel throat. There is not much of a leade in a 5.45x39 chamber. Some bullets may be too long.

 

I was thinking of using my Saiga this year for deer. Will try your 64 gr Winchester bullet load.

 

CH4D also lists dies.

 

Seating to an OAL of 2.140 puts the ogive of the Winchester PP bullet lower (by eyeball measurement) then that of the military bullets, giving the PP bullet some freebore before engaging the rifling. Thanks for pointing that out, I will edit that part in my post above.

[Marc 147]

Chrono data update:

 

Conditions: Wind from the north with gusts from 10-15 mph, temp was in the upper 50's, sunny with partial cloud cover.

 

My chronograph is a Competition Electronics, Inc. ProChrono Digital.

 

Ammo was the same from above:

Pulled 7n6 cases with primers

Re-sized Winchester 64 gr Power Point bullets

23 gr Hodgdon H335

Cartridge OAL 2.140"

 

Fired 24 rounds with the chronograph setup 10 ft from the muzzle of my WASR-2, at a target set 100 yards away. I have a Leapers 1.25-4x24 scope on Weaver rings and a UTG side mount on the rifle.

 

24 shot velocity figures:

Average...................2656 fps

Hi.............................2737 fps

Lo............................2594 fps

Extreme Spread.........143 fps

Standard Deviation......39 fps

 

Accuracy was...useable, I guess...being windy and gusty, I took time to only fire in lulls in the wind but I could only get an average 3 shot group size of about 5" at 100 yards. 5" at 100 is inside the kill zone on a deer so I suppose this load will satisfy my need, however, further development for accuracy is needed and will happen as time allows.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I should think you could dial a load in a LOT better than that!!! I would spend a lot more time with adjusting the powder charge... and perhaps bullet seat depth... If you can get them to seat a few thousadths off the lands... that certainly helps in a lot of other guns!!

 

Start with loads ( 5 to 10 rounds ) at .25 Gn higher and lower, and the next with .5 Gn. higher and lower... see how THOSE work... you might find you hit the "Sweet spot" at a certain point of powder/velocity that tightens the groups right up... dont forget a few hundred FPS loss/gain will kill a critter just as dead!!!

 

[Marc 147]

That's exactly what I'm thinking, Indy. I'm going to start by finding exactly what cartridge length will hit the lands and back the length off by .005 or so. After I loaded this last batch I found a guy on the net that was loading 5.45 in a similar way and was loading to an OAL of 2.150, so I may just have way to much "freebore".

[IndyArms 10,186]

Take a NON primed case... insert a bullet "LONG" and close it in the chamber... if you get rifling marks... measure and back off accordingly... DONE!

 

 

[Marc 147]

Roger that, precisely what I was going to do.

[RobRez 1,895]

Those 64gr bullets are the ones I use for my .223. They do perform very well on game, Whitetail and Antelope have dropped quickly with it. The big 150gr bullets of other calibers are really not needed if you can shoot well. Great choice!

[Paulry 50]

Your correct about the case capacity is close to the .222. I've reloaded the .222 and .223 extensively. The H335 is not as accurate as the H322 (loaded over 20K mil case .223 with H335) Might want to try the H322 for better accuracy. Finding the right OAL for bullet used (and this can even change from barrel to barrel) will also help. Interesting that the primers don't seem to show high pressure as readily as commercial, makes sense as always heard of the Hard Primer condition of mil spec ammo.

 

Also try to push the bullets through the sizing die (nothing wrong with what your doing there) it might be more consistant than the hammer.

 

And Kudos to Iron Head with the Tantal to solve a problem that everyone else pissed and moaned about (not that that lets CAI off the hook) it's just refreshing to hear of good old Yankee ingenuity in this day and age!

 

Good work Gent's!

[Paulry 50]

Hey, it just hit me that this is like "Russian Reloading" befitting the Saiga!

 

I read about the African Rebels in the Angolan conflict used to beat on the bolt carrier to resize a brass .308 case for reloading!!!

 

This helps keep my head straight in these post takeover times

[ironhead7544 35]

Thanks for adding more info.

 

I heard we may get brass case ammo from Wolf Gold. Maybee some good hunting bullets too.

[Marc 147]

Someday I will get more time to mess with this, It won't be before rifle season opens this year though.

[Heimdall 0]

A good way to find the load is to do a ladder load. Start with your current carge as a middle, and go like this

 

21.0, 21.3, 21.6, 21.9, 22.2, 22.5 and on and on. I usualy end up with 18 rounds to test, all with .3 grain diffrence. Sarpie the charge, and shot number on the casing to keep track of them. When you shoot fire one round, mark it wit the number, and fire another, keep going up the ladder till you start to see signs of excess pressure, thats where you stop. You should end up with a vertical string of numbered shots. What you are looking for is the highest grouping. That puts your charge at the best point harmonicly for the barrel.

 

This is how we load out long range rifles. usual we fire this grouping at 400 yards at dusk when the wind dies down. 100 might work, but if you can fire out to at lears 200 it would be better. As we say fire each shot like the Zombies are about to get our Mom. After this we narrow it down furter to the tenth of a grain, but just going off the first ladder should help enought.

 

ow bad is te damage to those pulled bullets, I may take them off our hands if the are not to terrable.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Heimdall