toothandnail 275 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Here's where we're at, The bid came in for making the dies to form a full metal mag,similar to the stock mags , but our design and length. However , it is over 3 times the initial estimate. I am not willing to put that much out there at this time(over $100K) and political situation, HOWEVER , here's what I would do if there is enough interest. IF I can get enough people that would preorder and PREPAY , I would kick in the remainder to get this project off the ground. Nobody would be asked to prepay untill we were close enough to the goal to make it work. then you will be notified and we can get the ball rolling I can set up an email address for those interested , and for me to be able to keep track of whose in. I realize I have only been here a short time , but you know by the forend we produce we can/will deliver when we say , I have 12 mags that we have built to our specs that work with the cheapest walmart ammo you can buy ,with only an occasional stovepipe , which depending on who you talk to , is a power issue ,or a mag issue , WE lean toward the power issue, as we've never had any issues with slugs or high power ammo. I'm open to suggestions , questions ? I'll try an answer as best I can. Thank You for your support. Matt Loganbill Tooth and Nail Ent. As suggested I have created a "CROWD FUNDING" campaign , it is here , http://www.indiegogo...=true&a=1640775 , We NEED your help , to get this thing going. Anyone who would like to be listed as a "team member" , they reccommend having a lot , send me a PM with your email , I will then send you a "request" to be a member , your email is NOT used or posted anywhere. We will have to think of some reward for helping. This is a FIXED funding project , which means , If the goal is not met , your $$ is returned , so there is no risk for you. Also if anyone is a Facebook user , and wants to setup and ?manage? a page , let me know. Twitter as well ,I know nothing about FB , and LESS about twitter. So THANKS , if you would do that , we can talk about some reward for that as well. THANKS again ! for the suggestions and comments. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KIRCH76 12 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 so how much money are we looking on a mag? what kind of time frame? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scrapper8o 2 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 http://www.kickstarter.com/ Might want to look into that website for a start-up for this project. Is based around exactly what your looking to do. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
compshootfl 40 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I would consider getting some additional bids...if that's is an issue, then maybe you could get a BIG company , already in this busines to partner with. Just some ideas, I hate it when money stops a great & needed idea. Edited October 17, 2012 by compshootfl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 +1 on kickstarter. It is a good way of coordinating speculative financing without people feeling like you are playing with their money. The big problem with these things is holding money before you have enough to start, and communicating the progress of the project and financing to your investor/customers. Kickstarter standardizes all of that and holds the money for you. Do a few searches on Kushnapup threads older than about 3 months and you will see why you want to avoid the drama. Or MD drum , or .... Just about anything. It is just too easy to imply promises about delivery times that are hard to live up to, and generate a bunch of badwill. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Thanks for the suggestions , I WOULD NOT collect any $$ until we were ready to commit to production , also ,and I haven't decided exactaly how much, but give an additional discount (40-60%) good for 1 year , up to and equal the amount prepaid. Example , using 50% ,prepay for 4 mags at $70.00ea. , have 1 year to get 4 more for $35.00ea Right now we're loking at $70.00 per mag TOPS. Time frame : 6 weeks from, START date , depending on how far behind they are at the word GO , right now they are about 6-8 weeks. We are getting bids from others , these guys are EXCELLENT , and CLOSE , about 1 hour away VS 3.5-6 hours for other tool/die makers. Also they can do testing & production runs , to make any tweaks that may be needed, we have a 3D printed version in clear plastic + the 12 we have made , we don't see much tweaking needed. BUT things can change on the production line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I suggested kickstarter from the get go for this reason. just curious, why 13rd? and not 10rd? maybe it just seems weird being 13 rds, and I'm oddly superstitious. (knowing the length of current 10 rd mags, that was about the max I wanted hanging off personally) I'm down for helping out, personally for peace of mind doing this on kickstarter would be much preferable to the end user IMO. There are more optios then just kickstarter, and because this is firearms related I would email them with the details before setting it up and making sure they know, in case they are liberal douches, what the deal is, laws, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
compshootfl 40 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) 13 round mags are needed to compete with current Saiga mags in competition shooting. I would hope in the future we see 15-20 rounders like Saigas currently have. Edited October 17, 2012 by compshootfl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Kickstarter = no firearms related because of the way SG shells stack ,and the way the MKA feeds , pretty flat going through the mag well , 13 works - 15 was not reliable without changing the basic mag style , however I have some ideas on how to make 15 work ,2 3/4" only. We can relabel them as 12 for you superstitious guys , I did think about that. I work with a guy who WILL turn around in the road if he sees a black cat, will NOT haul 13 of anything in his truck , he will make two trips. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 You might check out IndieGoGo, Quirky, RocketHub. I don't know all the rules of each, but it might be a good way to secure funding and also offer reassurances to those that are helping to fund, etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) I'd definitely be in for a few at that price Edited October 18, 2012 by gose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dawgball 4 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 The price definitely has my attention. Especially when it is half that of the current 10 rounders being made. I never understood why a mag would cost $150 myself. That to me, is just too much. I like the products i am seeing by Tooth and Nail! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theturtlepond 31 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Damn if you can get them out that fast you better make some metal ones for the saiga 12. I would be in for those but I sold my 1919 to buy a car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aerosigns 4 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think the two prices are fair.let us know when are ready Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregB72 2 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I don't even own an Akdal yet, and the main reason is the price of the only hi cap mag available. I'd be interested in at least two of these, would give me an excuse to buy an Akdal:) GregB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Update in OP , that's where I will post all updates unless you would prefer them to be added to the end of the thread . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Just contributed. The perk selections are a bit confusing. I chose the top one for now. If I am reading right the 60% discount boost is available only once the 1200 initial contributions are made, and then I am not sure how that is auto boosted or how one is entered into the MKA drawing in the end - all options seem to be made available now, not sure how that part works. I will be glad to be a member - can you explain what that entails? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yeah , I agree , I thought you could "buy" more than 1 at a time. The way it works is , if you want 4 mags , you have to make 4 seperate "claims" . I'll just have to change the Drawing for the shotgun "perks" , as no one can "claim " them , as it will be an incentive to prebuy more mags. Becoming a member Your have to join indiegogo Team membership is for people who want to contribute to the campaign by helping spread the word to your contacts , through forums , linkedin , facebook , email , twitter, ,basically telling anybody you think MAY have an interest. You will be able to add your profile to the campaign , if you wish. It will show up at the bottom under team members Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hrrrrmmm. Still not clear on this. You buy one, get one at 50% off. For each one you want 50% off on, you need to contribute 70 now? And will that go towards your future purchase, I presume? Secondly, it seems the first 1200 $70 contributions will actually get 60% off should this succeed. But the site offers that as a claim or perk now. Overall, it's very confusing and I think will need clarification for it to be understood and for the masses to contribute. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 You buy 1 today for $70.00 each , you than have 1 year to buy the second one for 50% off , so $35.00 each Or you buy 10 today for $70.00 each , you than have 1 year to buy up to 10 more, for $35.00 each, you can even sell those 10 for ?$70.00? if you want. The site keeps changing the perk date for some reason , I'll try again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 #2 in line... I can't wait!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Put it on gunbroker. List it at 7000 or something, for that, if someone were to actually buy it - they buy are buying 400 units or something. Meanwhile you explain the funds drive and link the indiegogo website where others that find 'MKA 1919 Hi-Cap 13rd' magazines for sale on gunbroker can contribute the 70 buck min to get in on the deal... Just a way to get the word out to a broader audience, perhaps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wish I had the money to invest. I am jaded enough to expect some hitches and also several months of delays beyond promised deliveries, even from the most honorable and well intentioned of innovators. There will probably be some issues with the first batch or two as well. It always happens so if you have reasonable expectations, then you can't be dissapointed. I think this is a needed product that will make money. If he gets it to market quickly and settles on a price $60 or lower after the initial couple of batches he will be a success. If the prices stay high, some large manufacturer will eventually push him out. I don't have an adkal, but I would speculate on buying 3 or 4 mags to resell if I could. Hey- you might even win an adkal, which I would expecct you to receive long befor the mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aerosigns 4 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Can you give a link to where to pre order Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoshAston 39 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I can do the FB page for you. Also PM sent about Team Member. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 GREAT! Thanks , I sent you an invite to be a team member Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks for the GB idea , I have tried several times , it seems they are having site registration issues. I'll try again later today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Matt - I don't want to be a pessimist but with the time limit, you may need a campaign starting day one and a crystal clear deal explained. Some ideas - if you have to reboot this, or start over - $105 is the contribution. For that you get 2 13 Round Mags. Pure and Simple. Hitting up this website, gunbroker, IPSCA, ThreeGun websites starting before the funding site goes live is a must... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoshAston 39 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Facebook page is up, http://www.facebook.com/ToothAndNailArmory?ref=tn_tnmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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