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45Bretired

Puck Keeping Carrier from going into full Battery?

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I've been running a CSS Performance puck for awhile. With a stock gas regulator I didn't have this problem but with the longer V-plug and now an Auto Plug the bolt is in battery but the carrier was about 1/16 or so from going fully forward. I took the gun out before noticing it and it ran great. It was a easy fix as all I had to do was machine off a little of the nipple on the puck at a time until it closed fully but I was wondering if anybody else has this issue? It runs just as good with a very slight adjustment to the Auto Plug. I personally just felt that it was unsafe in the unlikely event that a case ruptured in the chamber I'd like as much thick metal between me and the rupture as possible. I was actually able to see a little of the extractor through the gap before the modification.

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You can file the amount you need off the tail of the gas puc to work with your plug.

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Or, send it to me, I will machine it on the lathe and get it back to you no charge. Just give me the specification of how much to machine off. This applies to anyone who needs this done.

 

Jack

  • Like 4

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Thanks alot Jack for the offer but I already did just that. I wish I would have known about you before I moved from Hammond La born and raised there but I wasn't into these Saiga's three years ago when I moved. I'm a DIY kinda guy anyway but your offer is much appreciated. Nice to know there's people like you still around these days.

Edited by 45Bretired

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Oh and to anybody who doesn't take Jack up on his offer and does it them self don't let the size of the gap fool you. Considering the size of the gap it was surprising at how little material I had to remove to make it lock up solid. It was more than just scuffing it up but it was less than the measurement of the gap by far. I used a mill but it could be done with a Dremel and a steady hand. I would try to get it as straight as possible because in my opinion if it's angled it may side load the op rod. That may be no big deal but I'm usually over cautious. I think it's from cutting my teeth on building custom AR's and Bolt Guns. Also if you take to much off you'll have that click clack sliding that the stock puck does which once again in my opinion over stresses parts do to it impacting instead of just pushing the op rod.

Edited by 45Bretired

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Is it a problem to shoot the gun this way? I've shot mine 500 rounds with about 1/32" gap between the front of the carrier and the receiver. The bolt lugs cam into place and lock up nicely. I figured that was all that mattered. Luckily, I was given a vertical end mill last week!

 

However, I was going to go hunting with it before I can fix this. Surely it will be OK, right??? Maybe I should take the Browning BPS to shoot doves instead of the S-12?

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The carrier not going all the way forward should be fine, what his problem was, was the op rod hitting the puck, then the plug, with no space in between, which was holding the carrier back a little more, I wouldn't shoot it this way, it seems that the op rod smacking into a solid surface would be a good way to crack the carrier.

 

I recently made my own version of the css puck and I ran into this problem too, I just took material off the tail until it would rattle just a little bit in the gas block, just enough so that it's not hitting a solid surface.

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I put at least 700 rounds through it before I noticed it. I just wanted it to go fully forward the way it was designed to and yes it would have eventually over stressed the rod and like I said the unlikely event of a case rupture could have caused a safety issue like sending the extractor flying out it was pretty visible through the gap. It's a very simple fix and no harm no foul. I was mostly wondering if anybody else had noticed it or had the same issue.

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Just a heads up for anybody who isn't aware, when the carrier's all the way forward, its contact with the trunnion is on the left side, under the dust cover, so if you're looking at a gap still after removing the puck or gas plug, don't go randomly grinding on anything before you check the left side of the carrier where it butts to the trunnion.

A small gap on the right side is normal.

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Mine is the same setup as the OP. CSS performance puc with Auto Plug. I have no play in the puc either. As i said, there is about 1/32" gap in front of the carrier. Is it really going to crack my carrier? Just the recoil spring force will do this?

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If the gap is on the left like Pauly said, I wouldn't take the chance.

 

Even if the op rod running into a solid surface like that isn't a major problem, I'm sure it would be easier on the gun if it didn't.

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Gotcha. I'll check. Missed Pauly's post while I took twenty five minutes to post... Never watch TV and post!

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The carrier not going all the way forward should be fine, what his problem was, was the op rod hitting the puck, then the plug, with no space in between, which was holding the carrier back a little more, I wouldn't shoot it this way, it seems that the op rod smacking into a solid surface would be a good way to crack the carrier.

 

I recently made my own version of the css puck and I ran into this problem too, I just took material off the tail until it would rattle just a little bit in the gas block, just enough so that it's not hitting a solid surface.

 

How can you tell if this is happening?

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I found it by unscrewing the gas plug, and screwing it all the way it, I saw the carrier move backwards as I went, or if you can't hear the puck rattle back and forth. (if the gas block is fairly clean)

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Take your S12.Clean the gas block and puck, shake the bitch... can you hear the puck sliding around? If you do you're all good. I can with the same set-up.CSS puck, auto-plug. I think you guys should try this.

Edited by rnemhrd

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My S12 was spotless when I discovered the issue and after I noticed that I was seeing a little to much extractor I unscrewed the plug and watched it close the gap then screwed back in and watched it open. Obviously a problem, was also a gap on the left and there is still a small gap on the right as it should be. When I said earlier it was locking up solid I was referring to the left, my bad I should have been more clear. Also I said over stressing the op rod and I should have said the carrier. I also wonder if it had something to do with the Auto Plug adjustment screw backing out as fast as it did. With Blue Permatex it would still start to back out after 100 or so shells through it and now it doesn't. I was using Permatex Blue when that happened and switched to actual Loctite Blue since so can't say for sure if it was the modification or the brand of thread lock I was using. Huh food for thought.

Edited by 45Bretired

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I checked. My bolt carrier shoulder (on the left side) makes contact with the receiver but my puc makes no noise at all when shaken. If I lock the bolt back, the puc slams around and rattles quite easily. I think the puc and bolt carrier happen to coincide on fit. I wonder if I should shave just a bit off the puc's tail or if this scenario is ok?

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There has to be a better way to test than the 'shake' method.... Would you even be able to hear a 1/16" of movement? I don't know the answer to this, just throwing it out there.

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You need to remove your plug, and puck. Measure how far you're plug seats into you block ( from the internal face to where it meets the edge of you're gas block.now measure from the end of your gas block to the face of you're piston. now subtract the combined total measure if your puck plus your plug...it should be a smaller number than from the edge of your gas block to the face of you're piston. If it's a larger number you need to remove more material from the puck.

My puck doesn't rattle..I machined my own..i don'thave it or my calipers handy at the moment but i think it was. .040" longer than the factory and still has plenty of room to actuate the piston. Your gas block would have to be pretty far back to cause you too much of am issue. I'll add my dimensions tomorrow.

Edited by poolingmyignorance

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That's how I did it, I didn't measure to make sure, but my puck is about .610" long, which will rattle just a little bit with the MD Arms v-plug.

Edited by JoeAK

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Are Tapco plugs junk? I am still having low brass issues after carrier and bolt profile? I'm thinking about a css spring and puck (I'm running a autoplug) The S-12 shoots hi brass all day long just want to be able to shoot cheap wally world ammo slide-fire. thanks for your input.

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Assuming the the reprofiling of the hammer is correct, along with a quality polish, and your still having issues with low brass you may have an undergassed gun. You need to check your ports to be sure there are at least 3 unobstructed ports. It will be helpful to measure them so you know how much gas your getting.

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Assuming the the reprofiling of the hammer is correct, along with a quality polish, and your still having issues with low brass you may have an undergassed gun. You need to check your ports to be sure there are at least 3 unobstructed ports. It will be helpful to measure them so you know how much gas your getting.

 

Sorry I forgot I'm running a 4 holer drilled to 050 and 11/32 oversized block

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You need to open those up to about .070"

I've thought about it ...adding more gas that way I can still shoot 3" ammo versus changing to a lighter spring and puck and beating the carrier to death...one more thing I've only cycled 100 rounds thru her so far so maybe I should keep shooting high brass till she is loose enough to eject the wally world NO BRASS

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You need to open those up to about .070"

I've thought about it ...adding more gas that way I can still shoot 3" ammo versus changing to a lighter spring and puck and beating the carrier to death...one more thing I've only cycled 100 rounds thru her so far so maybe I should keep shooting high brass till she is loose enough to eject the wally world NO BRASS

Your not supposed to use 3" with the auto plug. 3" has too much gas for the plug to allow to by pass.

Also if you polished, and reprofiled correctly no amount of " breaking in" is going to change anything. All polishing does is reduce friction on the areas that would normally be worn from natural cycling of the weapon.

I wouldn't bother with the weaker spring. Open your ports and give yourself a weapon that is truely reliable without a bunch of extra B.S everytime you need to change ammo. Isn't that why you chose the auto plug in the first place? There isnt a whole lot 3" slugs are gonna kill that 2 3/4" won't.

Edited by poolingmyignorance

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You need to open those up to about .070"

I've thought about it ...adding more gas that way I can still shoot 3" ammo versus changing to a lighter spring and puck and beating the carrier to death...one more thing I've only cycled 100 rounds thru her so far so maybe I should keep shooting high brass till she is loose enough to eject the wally world NO BRASS

Your not supposed to use 3" with the auto plug. 3" has too much gas for the plug to allow to by pass.

yep I will stop doing that...shot 5 3" 00buck checking out my home protection loads ejected the shell case 12ft WOW !!!

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Okay so here are my dimensions:

Face of piston to edge of gas block: 1.400"

Auto Plug screws in : 0.765"

Factory Puck (which I haven't used in forever): 0.587" with an diameter of 0.825"

My Nitronic 50 puck : 0.618" and a diameter of 0.823"

it's a smaller diameter than factory because the Nitronic expands more at operating temp than the carbon steel factory puck. (I've got that data on some note pad somewhere but eh..doesn't really matter unless you've got a sitck of Ni50 laying around.

So lets do the math:

1.400 (0.587+0.765= 1.352)w/ factory puck or (.618+.765=1.383")

- 1.352

= 0.048 clearance or 0.017" clearance with my puck. doesn't seem like much, but it's been working great for atleadt 1,000 rounds.

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Are Tapco plugs junk? I am still having low brass issues after carrier and bolt profile? I'm thinking about a css spring and puck (I'm running a autoplug) The S-12 shoots hi brass all day long just want to be able to shoot cheap wally world ammo slide-fire. thanks for your input.

Strictly regarding your puck, lose the Tapco puck. Try CSS or booster puck. .02

 

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