rs51085 136 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) Ok, so let me just say 1st off that i know supply has always been hit or miss with Saiga's. that being a know factor i wonder if other things are happening / going to happen. no i am not talking about election craziness, or bans. no i am not talking about Izhmash going bankrupt either, which seems to happen every few years. It looks to me like the market is changing and the factories in Russia have different priorities as well. It has been announced that the Izhmash plant has begun retooling for the production of the of the Ak-12 so does this mean that they will not be able to keep their Saiga production going? If that is so are they trying to up production of Molot produced weapons like Vepr's and move away from Saiga's? With all of the new Veprs that are coming in to the country, in almost any variation you could ask for and at prices that are reasonable, and the fact that they are in original configuration and not needing conversion for the most part and have great Quality; will they put Saiga out of business here in the US? If So is my head about to explode? i Don't know but i do know i have been told that i over think things! So what do you guys think have Saiga's got to expensive / hard to get to compete? Edited October 24, 2012 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 the AK-12 is still a prototype weapon... there have been many prototype replacements for the AK to pop up over the years and none of them have been adopted for full production runs. I do think the cheap $500 Veprs do present an interesting consumer paradigm, but they won't supplant the $300 or less Saigas if the prices go back to what they should be. Expect the Saigas to go back down, the Veprs to go back up, and both platforms have a specific place in the world of Russian imports. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) I hope you are right. but I am doubtful that Saiga rifles will ever be $300 again. I think there are to many distributors that are getting in to the conversion game and not enough virgin unconverted rifles to create such a low price. I hope i am wrong but have you seen the ones CAI are selling? Edited October 24, 2012 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 1) Election panic buying ends 2) Russia realizes lots of yankees will buy lots of guns, so imports increase 3) Economy picks up so $1k AR15s become the rage with mall ninjas again 4) $300 saigas (adjust for inflation) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 1) Election panic buying ends 2) Russia realizes lots of yankees will buy lots of guns, so imports increase 3) Economy picks up so $1k AR15s become the rage with mall ninjas again 4) $300 saigas (adjust for inflation) hahaha true that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 1) Election panic buying ends2) Russia realizes lots of yankees will buy lots of guns, so imports increase 3) Economy picks up so $1k AR15s become the rage with mall ninjas again 4) $300 saigas (adjust for inflation) that is probably what is happening. at least i hope so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
misterT 174 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) but have you seen the ones CAI are selling? I saw one at a local dealers and thought it looked like a POS, it was only $799. But looking through the dust cover the Tapco hammer had not had ANY reprofiling, it hit the bolt/ firing pin at an angle. The trigger guard looked like a hack sawed stock guard ( like the "professional" on U tube does), the BHO was missing and they had the cheapest POS stock and PG on it. Some poor sucker will buy this thing and end up taking it back when it will not cycle on low brass. Then they will charge him several hundered more to make it fire right. Made me REAL happy that I bought an unconverted one and will convert it myself. Now I know there are quality conversions out there, several pros on here convert them and obviously they do a great job. But there are some real hacked up pieces out there too! P.S. I need to thank the many members on here for all that I have learned before I bought one! Edited October 24, 2012 by misterT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,074 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) 1) Election panic buying ends abruptly with Romney's election. 2) Russia knows the 2A loving Yankees want their guns in the original configuration, and will pay good money for them. 3) Russia fully utilizes their membership in the World Trade Organization to import these firearms into the USA. 4) $400.00 Saigas flood the market. 5) Who gives a flying fuck about the Mall Ninjas? Realism added. Edited October 24, 2012 by ChileRelleno 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 ahhaha, i am gonna redirect your honor, and ask, wahts the diff tween veprs and saigas? i thought they were the same thing? both outta izmash i hope you are wrong aboot any negative changes in the market though. but prob need to put the tinfoil back in the drawer, lolz. interesting thought, not doggin ya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Saiga is to MOLOT as Chevy is to Cadillac.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Saiga is to MOLOT as Chevy is to Cadillac.... More like this Izhmash Vepr 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I prefer rally racing. Also, several pound lighter rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I dont expect to see the Veprs stay at 499. long before they were 499, they were usually around 629 and up, and still are at most places. Dont you guys remember the article in the NYT? Doofus stated that Izhmash was retooling for the AK-12. Not sure on whether or not to believe his ass though. But he is more credible since he went to Izhmash directly. I doubt they would drop the line entirely. 40% of them come here. How many can they produce when the factory is being re-tooled, while still trying to fill orders? I like to think that they are building Saiga AK-12's. I wanna see some of those come in. Im just gunna be patient and hope for the better. I cant do shit about it to change the current situation with the Saiga's even if I wanted to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Dont you guys remember the article in the NYT? Doofus stated that Izhmash was retooling for the AK-12. thank you for bringing that up. that was what i was refering to. I dont expect to see the Veprs stay at 499. If they do stay around $500 i can see no reason to buy Saiga's anymore. i like the endless conversion possibilities of Saiga's as much as the next guy but when you can buy a better rifle for less than it will cost to buy a Saiga and convert then there is no reason to buy a saiga. i can hear it already BUT BUT BUT. BUT NOTHING the math doesn't lie. Saiga Rifle $400 Stock,trigger set, pistol grip $120 if cheap if expensive $300 total $520-$700 Vepr- already converted $500 don't forget about all the choices you have on barrel length and site configuration! this is based on the assumption that Veprs stay around $500. I cant do shit about it to change the current situation with the Saiga's even if I wanted to. i feel your pain and feel helpless as well. please for the love of all that is good and decent let us see some $300 saiga's again! Edited October 25, 2012 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Id love to see them stay at 300 bucks again, but thats likely not going to happen. Im just glad that they are still being made, even if in smaller numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 So who is the best source of Veprs in 308? Aint worried about a few bucks more interested in reputation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 If they can keep at least one production line open, and import laws or trade agreements don't change, there will always be an endless supply of Saigas. Whether or not they can compete in the marketplace is a good question, but for a basic AK Rifle I would say, they can compete. They just fill a niche. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 So who is the best source of Veprs in 308? Aint worried about a few bucks more interested in reputation. Centerfire systems has them for 599. A few folks from here have bought from them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Groovy Mike 36 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I don't see VEPR 12 gauge for $499. I see them at $999 - http://centerfiresys...om/vepr-12.aspx Edited October 25, 2012 by Groovy Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 So who is the best source of Veprs in 308? Aint worried about a few bucks more interested in reputation. Centerfire systems has them for 599. A few folks from here have bought from them. Hey Groovy, read it again 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
misterT 174 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 So how is it that they can import VEPRs with PG and high capacity mags,but Saigas have to be converted here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 The imported VEPRs don't come in with a pistol grip or high-cap mag. They have thumbhole stocks and are designed to use VEPR-specific low-cap mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 VEPR-specific low-cap mags. that does raise the a good question. Are they the same as factory Saiga mags? do you just have to install a bullet guide to get regular ak mags to fit for the 7.62X39? how about the other calibers as well. anyone know exactly what has to be done on the .223 and 5.45 to get them to use currently available hi cap mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getboth 14 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I don't see VEPR 12 gauge for $499. I see them at $999 - http://centerfiresys...om/vepr-12.aspx They are talking bout rifles, not shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 VEPR-specific low-cap mags. that does raise the a good question. Are they the same as factory Saiga mags? do you just have to install a bullet guide to get regular ak mags to fit for the 7.62X39? how about the other calibers as well. anyone know exactly what has to be done on the .223 and 5.45 to get them to use currently available hi cap mags? I cover all that in this thread here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/80377-vepr-545-closer-look/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 good thread thanks for the link. looks like hi cap mags will work in the vepr's with about the same amount of work as a saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Groovy Mike 36 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) I don't see VEPR 12 gauge for $499. I see them at $999 - http://centerfiresys...om/vepr-12.aspx They are talking bout rifles, not shotguns. So who is the best source of Veprs in 308? Aint worried about a few bucks more interested in reputation. Centerfire systems has them for 599. A few folks from here have bought from them. Hey Groovy, read it again Well shoot, SOMEBODY was talking about shotguns! Thanks. Edited October 26, 2012 by Groovy Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I don't see VEPR 12 gauge for $499. I see them at $999 - http://centerfiresys...om/vepr-12.aspx They are talking bout rifles, not shotguns. So who is the best source of Veprs in 308? Aint worried about a few bucks more interested in reputation. Centerfire systems has them for 599. A few folks from here have bought from them. Hey Groovy, read it again Well shoot, SOMEBODY was talking about shotguns! Thanks. just busting on ya 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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