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Best short muzzle brake?


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So, I should be getting my stamp back for a 13" S12 SBS real soon now (check cashed: May 1). Right now, I have a CSS Russian-style birdcage FH/brake on there, and while it works alright, it's also pretty long. If I'm taking the time to do a chop to 13", I'd like something much shorter that also works acceptably. I'd like to be a muzzle brake, but a really good FH works, too.

 

Any suggestions?

 

(I chose 13" because I run Krebs sights and wanted to avoid moving the gas system. That's about as short as I can go with those constraints.)

Edited by erwos
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There is no empirical evidence as to the effectiveness of various brakes so you are asking for opinions and you know what they say about opinions....

OK, so let's go straight to "what's the shortest brake or flash hider that seems to work in some fashion?"

Edited by erwos
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There is no empirical evidence as to the effectiveness of various brakes so you are asking for opinions and you know what they say about opinions....

OK, so let's go straight to "what's the shortest brake or flash hider that seems to work in some fashion?"

 

Oddmanout is right......but if you can wait I will be doing a muzzle brake comparison video once BoneSteel and Carolina Shooters gets both of their brakes done and ready to ship. I'll shoot each brake with birdshot, buckshot and slugs with me using my one arm and my friend using both. I'll use high speed footage and compare each brake with the shotgun without any brake on, shooting one armed and both arms. It will be like my handgun recoil comparison but it should be my best/most informative video yet!

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BHV

If I may suggest something that imho would enhance your vid bigtime: if you are filming to the side of the shooter, set up a white board with a horizontal straight black line on the other side of the shooter that is in line with the Saiga. That way there would be no way to refute which brake does the better job -- you could even provide post production graphics showing the angle (or lack thereof) of each shot. Now that would be a definitive vid on the subject.

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BHV

If I may suggest something that imho would enhance your vid bigtime: if you are filming to the side of the shooter, set up a white board with a horizontal straight black line on the other side of the shooter that is in line with the Saiga. That way there would be no way to refute which brake does the better job -- you could even provide post production graphics showing the angle (or lack thereof) of each shot. Now that would be a definitive vid on the subject.

 

You mean like I did with the Handgun Recoil Comparison video I did....

 

 

I did that "gauge" last minute and I like the idea of the single black line and measuring the angle

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There is no empirical evidence as to the effectiveness of various brakes so you are asking for opinions and you know what they say about opinions....

OK, so let's go straight to "what's the shortest brake or flash hider that seems to work in some fashion?"

 

That is a good way to put it.

 

My answer as someone who owns none of them is that lots of people who own the 'mini monster' or shark seem to be happy, and those are a bit shorter than the other brakes that seem to be effective. IMO it is one of the best looking too. I believe shark is a little lighter.

 

It is clear they do something. other ones that obviously do something include molot, JT, RJF mojo, chaos warthog (although maybe not as much effect? I haven't heard the extreme claims and design seems to be more focused on compact, light and wicked vs. max reduction)

 

if you just want a good looking flash hider, the flash hider/choke adapter DPH is selling is the clear and obvious choice.

 

Probably you will be satisfied with any of the ones I listed above. Choose the one that looks good to you. They are all within about $15 of price, except for the flash hider.

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BHV

If I may suggest something that imho would enhance your vid bigtime: if you are filming to the side of the shooter, set up a white board with a horizontal straight black line on the other side of the shooter that is in line with the Saiga. That way there would be no way to refute which brake does the better job -- you could even provide post production graphics showing the angle (or lack thereof) of each shot. Now that would be a definitive vid on the subject.

 

You mean like I did with the Handgun Recoil Comparison video I did....

 

 

 

I did that "gauge" last minute and I like the idea of the single black line and measuring the angle

 

 

My round of testing did something similar, only with the gun able to slide on a table held upright, and butted up against movable weights. part of the support broke in the middle of the tests, so the data is compromised, but I do plan to redo the testing with an improved "shooting sled" that should be able to tip upward to mimic the way muzzle flip and linear occurs when held by a human.I used a 1" square grid with colored stripes for the background. Even without a very fancy camera, it was easy to see dramatic difference between the brakes/ the bare muzzle/ and a simple flash hider. I am trying to eliminate the human factor from the measurements.

 

Blackhawk-- I think you could also do a good video with a few of your friends doing a run to shoot down a dozen or so clays all lined up, and repeating the run with the different brakes. that would give a way to see the improvement in follow up time.

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I think Gunfun touched on an important aspect of the test, removing the human aspect. Also I think any test should take into consideration the weight of break. To compare lighter breaks to the heavier ones you should add weight to the end of barrel for a proper comparison.

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I think making the weight the same would allow comparison of the effectiveness of the design. I don't really understand how that would skew the results. How can you compare the breaks without taking weight out of the equation?

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The weight of the MOLOT GK-01 is fairly irrelevant to how well it works. The beauty of the MOLOT GK-01 is that the DESIGN of the baffles is the most significant contributing factor to its effectiveness, not the weight. However, it is quite large, but the means (large baffle surface) justifies the ends (less recoil and muzzle rise while remaining lightweight). IMO, adding weight to the muzzle is not a desirable way to achieve results, as well as a step backwards in handling and balance. Just my opinion....

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But then if you use a Monster on a cut back 12.5 inch barrel the handling and balance is restored.

My point about weight is that if you add weight to a shark brake to make it the same as a monster, you have effectively changed the shark brake and changed the way it will effect the weapon. I guess my bottom line here is this;

Who really cares which is "the best" muzzle brake? If we were able to get down in the weeds far enough and find out that the Molot GK-01 is indeed the king of all current brakes with .00246 micro joules less reactive force and .036 less mils upswing, what does that really do? I doubt that having a GK-01 would make the difference in a self defense situation as compared to a Monster. We know that the GK-01 and Monster among others are effective brakes so go with what seems aesthetically best to you.

Edited by Odd Man Out
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My point about weight is that if you add weight to a shark brake to make it the same as a monster, you have effectively changed the shark brake and changed the way it will effect the weapon.

I understand what you mean now, and agree completely. I guess what I was saying is that with my method you could establish weather or not the only thing that makes one better than another is the increased weight. Is one design better than another or is it simply that it weighs more. If all breaks weighed the same you could establish which design is best. IDK, carry on.
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I can understand the original posters concerns. I have a 19" S12 and I really dont need another 4-6" on the end of it. Dam thing is already over 42" long. in import config. And with a Quad rail the front is already heavy.

 

It's longer then my marlin 336W/S and just shorter then my Model 60.

Edited by montec
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I think Gunfun touched on an important aspect of the test, removing the human aspect. Also I think any test should take into consideration the weight of break. To compare lighter breaks to the heavier ones you should add weight to the end of barrel for a proper comparison.

 

Thought of that and decided no. I want to compare the effectiveness of the brake as used. If you are trying to decide if a ferrari is fast you don't fill it with lead to give the freightliner a fair chance. I plan to take one and one only that is effective and light and strap and contrast it to just absurd amount of weight to the barrel and show the difference. Weight is not determinative. It is only one of the several factors that affect muzzle flip and actual linear recoil, and perceived recoil.

 

FWIW, I think videos of people using it is informative, if not scientific for comparison purposes. When you can see a tiny person with improper stance easily control a rapid string of heavy ammo, that means something even if it is not a measurement. That's why I am in favor of Blackhawk making those videos- he would do a better job of that- and with the chiappa, he has done.

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I like gun fun's methodology in removing the human element. Thats really going to be the key in any real scientific senario.. Not sure about where to get one but a pressure pad, or force meter measuring rearward force of the weapon would be ideal.

Of you could go myth busters style and use clay on a back board and measure the depth at which the stock deforms the clay with each break.

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I think Gunfun touched on an important aspect of the test, removing the human aspect. Also I think any test should take into consideration the weight of break. To compare lighter breaks to the heavier ones you should add weight to the end of barrel for a proper comparison.

 

Thought of that and decided no. I want to compare the effectiveness of the brake as used. If you are trying to decide if a ferrari is fast you don't fill it with lead to give the freightliner a fair chance.

Very true and I agree if you are comparing 'as used'. But if you were comparing just the engines you would add the weight(leaving out all the other differences in a Ferrari and a freightliner). My weight idea would not work to compare 'as used', only to compare the actual designs. Obviously testing them as used makes more sense for our purposes, I just think it would be interesting to know which performs better with the weight differences taken out of the scenario.
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I think Gunfun touched on an important aspect of the test, removing the human aspect. Also I think any test should take into consideration the weight of break. To compare lighter breaks to the heavier ones you should add weight to the end of barrel for a proper comparison.

 

Thought of that and decided no. I want to compare the effectiveness of the brake as used. If you are trying to decide if a ferrari is fast you don't fill it with lead to give the freightliner a fair chance.

Very true and I agree if you are comparing 'as used'. But if you were comparing just the engines you would add the weight(leaving out all the other differences in a Ferrari and a freightliner). My weight idea would not work to compare 'as used', only to compare the actual designs. Obviously testing them as used makes more sense for our purposes, I just think it would be interesting to know which performs better with the weight differences taken out of the scenario.

 

That's great. Please do the testing and post your results.

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So, I should be getting my stamp back for a 13" S12 SBS real soon now (check cashed: May 1). Right now, I have a CSS Russian-style birdcage FH/brake on there, and while it works alright, it's also pretty long. If I'm taking the time to do a chop to 13", I'd like something much shorter that also works acceptably. I'd like to be a muzzle brake, but a really good FH works, too.

 

Any suggestions?

 

(I chose 13" because I run Krebs sights and wanted to avoid moving the gas system. That's about as short as I can go with those constraints.)

 

I have mine cut down to 13 inches, same reason don't want to mess with moving the gas block. I have noticed that the recoil isn't what it was when the barrel was 19 inches, it far less, and that is shoot 00 buck at both length.

 

 

here is the best advice I can give you, hold off on buying a brake till after you cut your barrel down and then shoot it, you will notice a huge difference. you may, like me, forgo on buying one.

Edited by Matthew Hopkins
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OK, let me rephrase this question one last time, since some of you seem to be misunderstanding my priority here: what is the shortest flash hider or muzzle brake for the Saiga 12? I don't care how it looks. I don't care how well it functions, so long as it does SOMETHING (which I will assume they all do, so no empirical evidence/comparisons required).

 

Cutting to 8" is not an option. I don't want an 8" gun.

Edited by erwos
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Amazing thing about this forum, the topic can twist wildly out of control of the OP's intention with amazing results. But, to get back to what you originally wanted, I've plugged in your requirements: "I don't care how it looks. I don't care how well it functions" and I've come up with a perfect answer which is:

Buy any short brake and take an angle grinder to make it as short as you want.

Done -- no need for profuse thanks.

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Okay, if you don't care how it looks or what it does, let me recommend the factory thread protector. It protects threads while only adding .064" to OAL!! AMAZING!!

 

I think he is looking for the shortest break that they make. Maybe even flash hider.

 

And my thread protector can be threaded father down then the end of the barrel.(granted its the metal one not plastic)

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OK, let me rephrase this question one last time, since some of you seem to be misunderstanding my priority here: what is the shortest flash hider or muzzle brake for the Saiga 12? I don't care how it looks. I don't care how well it functions, so long as it does SOMETHING (which I will assume they all do, so no empirical evidence/comparisons required).

 

Cutting to 8" is not an option. I don't want an 8" gun.

http://www.bonesteelarms.com/Saiga-12-gauge-Crown-flash-hider-CNC-22647.htm Smallest I have seen. "Flash hider, also serves as a stand off device for door breaching". Does something. My guess is you want something small to dress the end of the barrel up that is as short as possible? Edited by rnemhrd
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