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steel s12 mags. Project completed.


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Only had a couple of misfeeds in my main S-12 after the feed lip mod, and didn't get them on these videos. She ran like a raped ape with it.

First firing slow and then getting faster.... Also wanted to show all loads on a closed bolt to show how easy it is. wink.png

 

Tried one mag full of Fiocchi low recoil 8.5 shot

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We made the call today to suspend low capacity production for the time being on all products. 8 rounds will be the smallest 12 round the largest. We will make the small sizes later if/when restriction

Update of sorts. Ended up getting stuck on a vepr .308 batch for a few extra days. Had to come up with a new clamping fixture for the S-12 since the first one gave me a sore elbow in 20 parts, took a

He has already said in this thread first batch will be 8 rounders.   I want larger magazines, but mostly I look forward to that first batch and I want that first batch to be good, and I want it as

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Picking up the pace some... 022.gif

 

 

 

One final run I had 9 shells left so I loaded em all in there and loaded on an open bolt of course. Wanted to check to see if it would feed the 9th round... Well it did great! Then my trigger finger forgot we had 9 in there and I only fired 8 rounds...LOL! Oops! It did feed the last one though and you can see it eject. 016.gif

 

Pissed me off a little... two fat friggin doves flew right over me as soon as I turned off the camera, and gave me a nice easy shot just to say ... naaaa.gif There I stood like Barney with a shell in my pocket.... laugh.png

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Got together with one of the guys for a quick test on Sunday.

 

I had to fit the mag to my gun (home conversion 2003 EAA 22" chopped back to 20" and 4th port added)on the rear locking tab (expected) and it wasn't quite enough for his Tromix (Full size not the SBS). Wasn't by much so a little forceful and it fit in his gun also.

 

I was running Federal bulk pack ( # 7 1/2 1 1/8th ounce) and it ran fine through my gun and the Tromix.

 

Tried some Remington game loads ( # 8 1 1/8 ounce ) which my gun I was able to outcycle the mag. The video doesn't show it very well though. I couldn't run the Tromix fast enough to repeat this. I could only out run the mag with 2 or 3 rounds left in the gun. Please note I only shot about 100 rounds through the mags so I believe this is a break in issue.

 

On the mag follower I can see where it is rubbing slightly in "the grooves" of the mag body. I'm thinking a little polish there (or shoot it more) will wear the parts in and I won't be able to outcycle the mag.

 

I do not believe this issue will be present once the "newness" of the mag is gone. I am going to keep using the mag and see if the parts wear themselves in.

 

Further testing in other guns will be coming and once I get back to real internet I'm going to tag some pictures and video with this.

 

I was still impressed with the mag and look forward to running it like a raped ape.

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I was able to get more rounds through this mag yesterday with good results. I tested using several types I had not used in it yet such as S&B 00buck 2 3/4" which is almost as long as other 3" rounds. I did not have any problems with any of the rounds tested. I am trying to think of more ways to test this thing before I leave for a vacation to FL Keys this weekend. I am thinking of sacrificing another stick mag to use in a side by side drop test. I have complete confidence in the lugs on these mags and do not see how they could break with normal or even abusive use.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry for the lapse... life came crashing down around my head the last week or so.

 

I haven't had much time to play, but should start having more this weekend. NetPackrat, I'd have no problem meeting up if we can find a time to do so. Altho I really doubt it's my S12.... I can re-create my issue without my S12 anywhere near the magazine. I'll see if I can do a quick video showing that, but I will say the more I use it the less it happens. So I really think my mag had a burr or other tight spot that caused this and it's wearing down/loosening up some.

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Sorry that I haven't been keeping up here, but I will hopefully be taking some video on Saturday.

 

It didn't happen again, and my camera got stolen last saturday or sunday, so no pictures are likely. 

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I haven't had much time to play, but should start having more this weekend. NetPackrat, I'd have no problem meeting up if we can find a time to do so. Altho I really doubt it's my S12.... I can re-create my issue without my S12 anywhere near the magazine. I'll see if I can do a quick video showing that, but I will say the more I use it the less it happens. So I really think my mag had a burr or other tight spot that caused this and it's wearing down/loosening up some.

 

Understood.  Been kind of busy myself.  I have a friend here from out of state and we're gonna spend the weekend out at ze cabin, and then I'm probably going to wind up helping my brother move this coming week, but maybe after that.  Maybe get my brother to join us with his S-12.  I know he's pretty interested in the steel mags.  He didn't pick up the Izzy 8s when I did and is still using the 5 rounders.

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Ok here is what I did on several with good results.. It eliminated low feeding on the top rounds.

 

 

Looking from inside the mag at the left side feed lip. Feed lip is trimmed until it measures .490 from the back inside the mag.

 

 

attachicon.giffeed lip fitting demo.jpg

 

Feed lip is widened .005 and the angles are recut to match.

 

attachicon.giffeed lip fitting demo2.jpg

 

I did a different tweak and tested it this afternoon with very good results. Rather than shorten the feedlips, I placed a file along the angled portion at the front edge, preserving the angle and removing about a 32nd from each side.  This corrected the initial feed angle and gave good feeding.

 

My camera got stolen, so no video, but I will put all my data in a spreadsheet in a couple minutes and post it here so you can read. My handwriting in the form at the range would not be helpful to you.

 

I fed quite a lot of deformed ammo which probably would have jammed more in other magazines.

 

I did have a couple that failed to pop up, both were the third to last shell, and both were gold medal hulls. At first I thought they might be wider than other shells, but on closer inspection, I believe the rim was dragging against the area at the back of the mag behind the feedlips where you apparently used a die grinder to smooth out a weld or something. It is possible that the roughened surface was the cause. I will smooth this area and see if it makes a difference. 

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All data shown after test 2 is with the mods to feedlips. Edit _corrected some data I misread off of my handwriting. _

 

post-17871-0-21577400-1380946947_thumb.jpg

 

A pic uploaded before camera stolen. Orange metal crayon melted off. wear shows where tab engaged.

 

post-17871-0-64261200-1380946468_thumb.jpg

 

Shown fitting nicely into police radio hauler.

 

post-17871-0-17490600-1380946482_thumb.jpg

Edited by GunFun
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I had more good results today with this mag. Mag ran flawless every time. Any suggestions for different ways to test reliability? As far as normal shooting this thing is 100% after several hundred rounds. I have not had a single failure after adjusting the feedlips.

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The only thing I can think of is a greater variety of brands of ammo. Perhaps we should make a list together of what hulls are known to work. Just copy this list, and paste it in with any additions. Then if any brand fails to run, we can put it in the second list with dimensions

 

Works

  • Federal bulk pack "hunting" hull
  • Win AA hull either red or HS
  • Rem STS
  • Federal Gold medal 
  • Nobelsport clear roll crimp .650 roundball 1400 FPS

Doesn't

  • S&B clear roll crimp 15 pellet OOB -- too long to fit.
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I guess I'm a shitty tester in this aspect, I've shot maybe only 10 slugs and 5 buckshot. I'm too poor to afford a lot of expensive shells. I have ran about a thousand Walmart cheap federal, Remington, and different Winchester target loads though. It's just what I can afford to shoot.

 

I know how it handles slugs and Buck. So I really don't shoot them much and just blast through the cheapo stuff. But all positive results and fun too!

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That's a lot of cash none the less. I shot the slugs, because I made them. I have run very little commercial ammo compared to handloads. I figure that works fine as a test since generally handloads are going to have more wear related defects which can adversely affect feeding. So far, I haven't run any buckshot, and only a few commercial slugs. I did run 3 kinds of factory birdshot though.

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I can add centurion slugs strictly off of memory, I documented most of my tests with lots of pics and I should have pics of the various types. I will add them later..

 

Works

Centurion Slugs

Federal bulk pack "hunting" hull

Win AA hull either red or HS

Rem STS

Federal Gold medal

Nobelsport clear roll crimp .650 roundball 1400 FPS

Doesn't

S&B clear roll crimp 15 pellet OOB -- too long to fit.

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Not sure what the problem is with the other mags but I just loaded 8 rounds of 11 pellet S&B 00 Buck into mine on a closed bolt and  proceeded to hand cycle it all just fine. No hangups anywhere and it easily clears the front edge of the mag.

 

??

 

 Total OAL of the S&B rounds I have are 2.560".

 

Edit> 

Oh NM now I see. They were trying the 15 pellet, it must be longer obviously.

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Yep. Lemme check......

 

I've got five left and they are a few years old. I bought a bunch of them about the time I got my first S12. They just fit in the box from some winchester supreme copperplated 15 pellet OOB loads, so those might have been long too. (# X12XC3B5)

 

Calipers say 2.670" out of five two were that length, one was 2.65" but had been squished a bit, and the other two were 2.666"

 

I'm pretty sure I've used some roll crimped slugs that were about the same length, but I can't think what brand they would have been. I am too much of a tightwad to have gotten anything cool.

 

Obviously they would need a bit of clearance to be able to slide too, say 2mm, but anything you can give adds versatility. The MD 20 chart I updated gives a lot of length info on nominally 2 3/4" shells, but I think the only ones which will be an issue are roll crimped 3" mag loads. Does anyone have 3" brass or steel hulls?

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Those S&B shells look cool, but they patterned poorly for me, and the big gaps between the pellets combined with soft hull actually did cause the overhyped shell deformation issue. Better designed ammo does not have that problem. They would not be my first choice for HD, but they are fun to blast away with.

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Those S&B shells look cool, but they patterned poorly for me, and the big gaps between the pellets combined with soft hull actually did cause the overhyped shell deformation issue. Better designed ammo does not have that problem. They would not be my first choice for HD, but they are fun to blast away with.

That is good to know, I have always had one of my go to mags filled with this. I have not had a problem yet with this type after about 30 rounds, but I may go with buck and ball or something else I have around here for my go to mags. I have tested many many buck and ball and know for sure that they will not fail in my gun.
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Maybe that is making too much work. The real thing will be to get dimensions off of any shells that don't work. I'll try to remember to take my calipers to the range next time. Perhaps there are shells with wider or thicker rims. I know Federal shells and the remmington buckshot loads have no or less external taper than say win AA or STS hulls. I have no experience with fiochi, etc.

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I'll be happy to take your money, just as soon as I have mags in hand and ready for sale. Should be ready around January, depending on how backed up everyone is.

 

We should have the first phase two test mag done by mid week. I may send out phase two test mags for fitting tests and light firing in the unhardened state, because it took three weeks last time to do 12 of them. The corrected mags are only slightly different but should eliminate the problems we had.

 

If I can get confirmation that everything fits well I can get the steel ordered and start welding small parts.

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  • 3 weeks later...

We have the new dies, we have corrected lock up.

 

We noticed an odd feed malfunction that is also partially present on the poly magazines. Including the Izzy 8 round.. It does not lead to malfunctions in the Izzy, but I was getting a 1 in 200 stoppage with mine.

 

We worked on a solution for a few days and after about 50+ different concepts came up with something that is so stupidly simple that I imagine the original designer of the S-12 will kick himself for not figuring it out. It could have a much larger application to any box magazine that handles rimmed rounds.

 

So naturally I have to see about protecting this little invention. Before sending out samples.

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