.30-06 16" Saiga with Hi-Caps

[Caspian 32]

Tony,

 

Obviously without gun in hand, you can't check out what would need done. However, assuming all that is required is a simple barrel removal, chop, and reassembly - what would you estimate for a barrel shortening of a .30-06?

 

I'm thinking a .30-06 with a 16" barrel, folding stock, and some sort of modified hi-cap. Now that would be a fun AK.

 

Caspian

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Lots of stuff about the Saiga 100 in 30-06 we don't know yet, stuff that would affect stock and FCG conversions. But Tony would be the man to do it if anyone.

 

Me, I don't see the advantage in shortening a 30-06 barrel like that. Why spend that much per round if the ballistics are wasted.

 

I have a feeling that the hi-cap issue with 30-06 would be even worse than 308. Unless the S-100 receiver is lengthened, there'd be even less space to clear for a huge mag like the BAR. Hi-caps specifically made for the S-100 would be the way to go in my opinion.

 

But forget my opinion, what sayeth Tony?

[Caspian 32]

it's not really about ballistics or practicality. It's about having something that (in the owners opinion) looks cool. I like the idea of a big, long (BAR) mag hanging from an AK receiver which has been made as short as possible.

 

A tweaked out .308 isn't far from a .30-06 ballistically, so if i were going for practical, i would start off with a .308 whose barrel was already 16".

 

This is about taking a new AK caliber option to the next level.

 

caspian

[TacticalResponse 0]

it's not really about ballistics or practicality. It's about having something that (in the owners opinion) looks cool. I like the idea of a big, long (BAR) mag hanging from an AK receiver which has been made as short as possible.

 

A tweaked out .308 isn't far from a .30-06 ballistically, so if i were going for practical, i would start off with a .308 whose barrel was already 16".

 

This is about taking a new AK caliber option to the next level.

 

caspian

[Wolverine 10,360]

The idea of a 30-06 is intriguing but not with 3 rounds. Beyond that I have to wonder what kind of muzzle blast and recoil your going to get if it is in the standard Saiga synthetic. Hells Bells the rifle doesn't weigh 7 pounds or come with a compensator that I know of. Oh, that's why you only get three rounds........cuz either the game is long gone or you're dead. Either way, you ain't gonna need more than three bullets!!!

Edited October 19, 2005 by Wolverine

[TacticalResponse 0]

The idea of a 30-06 is intriguing but not with 3 rounds. Beyond that I have to wonder what kind of muzzle blast and recoil your going to get if it is in the standard Saiga synthetic. Hells Bells the rifle doesn't weigh 7 pounds and doesn't come with a compensator of any kind that I know of. Oh, that's why you only get three rounds........cuz either the game is long gone or you're dead. Either way, you ain't gonna need more than three bullets!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im wondering if this rifle is going to have a milled or stamped receiver. If it has a stamped receiver that powerful of a cartridge will cause receiver flex making the rifle very inaccurate.

[jon elia 0]

the recievers already flex, whatchu talkin bout?

[BattleRifleG3 16]

The AK isn't dependent on the receiver for accuracy unless you use a side rail mounted scope. Irons in some cases do better than scopes. For better scoping, I'd look into scout type rails.

[TacticalResponse 0]

The AK isn't dependent on the receiver for accuracy unless you use a side rail mounted scope. Irons in some cases do better than scopes. For better scoping, I'd look into scout type rails.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If an AK has a strong enough receiver it well not have receiver flex. Look at the vepr. 1.5 M RPK receiver wall thickness = no receiver flex. Except on their .308 version. The .308 in just to powerful a round for that receiver. Robinson Armament openly admits it. They have even asked Molot the Russian company that manufactures them not to ship them with scope mounts on the receiver, and Molot refuses to do so. Most Vepr .308 rifle scopes will not hold zero properly. What does Robinson Armament tell its owners to do? use an Ultimak gas tube mount so your optics are not affected by the Receiver. I would like to see the receiver on the Saiga 100 built strong enough to handle the 30-06 round with no receiver flex whatsoever. If It means a real thickly stamped receiver or a milled one then whatever it takes. I've been looking at ways to fix the receiver flex on the Vepr .308. HK on their PSG1 sniper rifle welds steel rails on the lower section of the receiver on both sides to control a receiver flex problem that they encountered when converting their HK 91 to the their sniper version. It's a world wide problem on some military rifles with stamped receivers that shoot large calibers .

Edited October 19, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Plates attached to the sides of the receiver may make a difference. I believe the S-100s will have plastic receiver panels. Metal replacements may be a popular custom item.

[TacticalResponse 0]

I know that one of the ideas I have for fixing the Vepr .308 would involve installing a kit with a milled or forged receiver insert into the current receiver to strengthen it. Although after doing this the FGC would no longer fit and would have to be modified. Well a lot of things would have to be modified. For a system that strengthens a stamped receiver it has to be low cost, simple and easy to install. If this system worked you could then replace the current barrel with a match barrel. Expensive Huh? But it would rival the accuracy of some of the best .308 sniper rifles currently made.

Edited October 20, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[G O B 3,516]

Metal reciever plates........very interseting!

 

G O B

[Wolverine 10,360]

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Metal reciever plates........very interseting!

 

G O B

 

 

Metal plates is an interesting proposed solution but we still have the 3 rd. capacity issue to deal with to make the 30-06 viable as a contender...........in my arsenal anyway.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

They can keep the ugly thing as far as I'm concerned. Saiga AKs in 7.62 straight from Russia are awesome! Saiga .223s are much cheaper than ARs, are more reliable, and also kickass. The Saiga shotties are really awesome because they are a whole different animal than any other shotgun or AK. I own at least one of each of these because I love AKs and these will always work and will always make people go "what the heck is that? is that legal? can I try it? where can I get one? But if I want a rifle in a higher caliber like a .308 or .30 06 I will get a bolt gun. For around the same price you can buy a Remington 700 or comparable and have a real rifle you can scope that doesn't have flex issues.

AKs are battle rifles that are cool and can be modded, taken apart and cleaned with hardly any tools, treated like crap, rode hard and put up wet, and will always function but they are not high powered rifles.

Just my opinion, laugh if you want.

[jon elia 0]

you nailed it on the head cobra

[G O B 3,516]

I have an 03-A3, best turnbolt ever made. I WANT a S-30-06. I have a thing about having a turnbolt and a semi-auto in each calliber. Even picked up a mossberg 12ga. bolt to go with S-12!

 

G O B

[Wolverine 10,360]

They can keep the ugly thing as far as I'm concerned. Saiga AKs in 7.62 straight from Russia are awesome! Saiga .223s are much cheaper than ARs, are more reliable, and also kickass. The Saiga shotties are really awesome because they are a whole different animal than any other shotgun or AK. I own at least one of each of these because I love AKs and these will always work and will always make people go "what the heck is that? is that legal? can I try it? where can I get one? But if I want a rifle in a higher caliber like a .308 or .30 06 I will get a bolt gun. For around the same price you can buy a Remington 700 or comparable and have a real rifle you can scope that doesn't have flex issues.

AKs are battle rifles that are cool and can be modded, taken apart and cleaned with hardly any tools, treated like crap, rode hard and put up wet, and will always function but they are not high powered rifles.

Just my opinion, laugh if you want.

 

 

+1. That is why I bought the Springfield Socom-16 and Scout Squad M1A's in .308 as "battlerifles". I'm a lefty so bolts present some challenge. However, if I was looking for a high powered hunting or sniper rifle it would be a scoped bolt action. One shot, one kill. The intended purpose is different. That is not to say you can't take a deer with a M1A or use a bolt action as a scout.

 

I just don't see putting good cash into a Saiga sporter .308 or 30-06 with the intent of making it high capacity battlerifle. It becomes counterproductive at some point....like the Krebs conversion costing $1000+ only to use an M-14 magazine costing $25 to $50 each and still not have a milled receiver capable of withstanding the cartridge pressures without flexing and impacting accuracy.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

Wolverine

Edited October 25, 2005 by Wolverine

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Think of it this way - With a scout type scope the receiver flex issues will be nill. Then you'd have another accurate rifle (if it's anything like the S-308) that kicks the crap out of the Remington 7400 with reliability, as well as the Benellis and BARs in similar calibers.

 

Hey, if it's not your thing, all the more for the rest of us. I don't see how in the world anything but a proprietary mag would work, but hey, that's where ingenuity comes in. Reason I still see an advantage in boltguns in tactical scenarios is that they can still be loaded from the top, but not so with Tikka, Steyr, or Rem 710 rifles and are accurate as anything. But boy would I go for a S-100 in 30-06 when the money's available for it...

[TacticalResponse 0]

Yes, with a scout mount the receiver issue is rather nill. Yet, I personally still prefer a receiver mounted scope system. Just can't get used to those scout mounted optics so far up front. Well, to each his own I guess.