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223 steel magazines


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#1 Jim Digriz

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:45 AM

I'd like to see Weiger-like 223 steel magazines both with and without a built-in bullet guide.

#2 red308

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:24 PM

I would love to see steel s223 mags

#3 protected static

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

I'd like to see these as well.
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#4 smeeg

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:30 PM

I have cash in hand for these
Preferablly with built in bullet guide

#5 Brian M1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

Yes. Steel mags for .223 PLEASE! Either with or without bg.

#6 liberty -r- death

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:25 PM

Steel 223 mags!
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#7 csspecs

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:27 PM

What sizes?

#8 bigdust80

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:35 PM

What sizes?

You can never go wrong with 30 rounds. 20 would be nice too.

#9 canoecanoe

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

What sizes?


20 round and 30 round. We need a good source of steel mags up to your quality standards.
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#10 protected static

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:49 PM

Go big or go home: 50-rounders, like the Galils. Posted Image




I kid. I'm mostly in the market for 30s, but a souce of 20s would be cool.
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#11 smeeg

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:48 PM

Maybe 35 rounders so urs have an edge over competition
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#12 Sgt. Raven

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:09 PM


What sizes?


20 round and 30 round. We need a good source of steel mags up to your quality standards.


5 x 5 on above.

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#13 Jet

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:32 PM

I have cash in hand for these
Preferablly with built in bullet guide

+1

#14 Jim Digriz

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:40 PM

30 is good, 35 would be great if you could do it with no greater than the Galil steel mag's length, and, more importantly, have flawless feeding. I'm not really interested in 20 rounders but might buy one if you produced them. But I would buy multiple 30s.

Although my 223 has a bullet guide, I would be inclined to remove it if you could do these with built-in guides. The Weiger mags I have are excellent but sometimes a tiny sliver of the nose of the bullet is sheered off (to no apparent harmful effect to operation) because the mags sit slightly too low and the chamfer of the barrel leading into the chamber is minimal.

Make the bullet guide for the 223 Saiga obsolete, please!

Edited by Jim Digriz, 29 October 2012 - 06:46 PM.


#15 csspecs

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:01 PM

Its possible to get the feed higher using the same method used in the .308 magazine.

Probably need a built in bullet guide as well but its nice to get the feed closer. I'm not terribly pleased with the feed angles of the galil magazines, I'd guess that they sit differently in a Galil.

#16 red308

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

I vote 30 rounders

#17 Jim Digriz

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:59 PM

Its possible to get the feed higher using the same method used in the .308 magazine.

Probably need a built in bullet guide as well but its nice to get the feed closer. I'm not terribly pleased with the feed angles of the galil magazines, I'd guess that they sit differently in a Galil.


Do you mean to say that there's no getting around having to have a bullet guide?

Edited by Jim Digriz, 29 October 2012 - 08:12 PM.


#18 Brian M1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:01 PM

I'm voting (again) for steel .223 mags! Yes... I'm cheating, but whatever it takes to get these! Posted Image

#19 csspecs

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:25 PM


Its possible to get the feed higher using the same method used in the .308 magazine.

Probably need a built in bullet guide as well but its nice to get the feed closer. I'm not terribly pleased with the feed angles of the galil magazines, I'd guess that they sit differently in a Galil.


Do you mean to say that there's no getting around having to have a bullet guide?


No its completely possible to make it work with no on rifle bullet guide.. Just understand that our Saiga .308 magazines don't actually have a bullet guide they function off a different method of causing the round to rise.. It may even be possible to make that work for the .223, so that the mags could work in both rifles with and without a bullet guide.
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#20 Jim Digriz

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:05 PM



Its possible to get the feed higher using the same method used in the .308 magazine.

Probably need a built in bullet guide as well but its nice to get the feed closer. I'm not terribly pleased with the feed angles of the galil magazines, I'd guess that they sit differently in a Galil.


Do you mean to say that there's no getting around having to have a bullet guide?


No its completely possible to make it work with no on rifle bullet guide.. Just understand that our Saiga .308 magazines don't actually have a bullet guide they function off a different method of causing the round to rise.. It may even be possible to make that work for the .223, so that the mags could work in both rifles with and without a bullet guide.


That would be ideal, but it seems impossible, given the way the bullet guide juts out:
Posted Image

#21 mancat

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:17 AM

Even though I have a lot of .223 mags now, I would love to buy a couple if you made them. I think it's a good next product to work on, especially since some of the US-made options are a little cheesy.

I don't know what your price point is, but with the quality Beryl and Circle-10 magazines being around $25-30, I think you would have to come in around there, hopefully a little less. I have no idea how much it actually costs you to make these things.

Also, you have an opportunity to make a magazine that is marketable to more than the Saiga. Most Euro .223 AKMs have generally similar magazine feed geometry specs. The differences are mostly in the receiver cutout size, width of the trunnion, and whether or not the trunnion uses square or round head rivets on the inner lower rivet position.

It seems like the Saiga and Vepr .223 have very similar mag wells. You could at least target those two models. The SLR-106 comes in very close. It would be nice to be able to target the SAR-3 and WASR-3 as well. Maybe get some guys on here with those various rifles to take dimensions of the receiver cutout and lower trunnion width?

You could always just copy the general Weiger or Galil design, but tailor the feed angle and height to fit most Euro .223 AKMs. If you were going to do this, I would think the Galil design would be a better option, because by default it has the ability to use AR mag springs and followers. You could cut out part of your manufacturing process right there by just using common US-made parts.

My personal preference would be to have a mag without built-in bullet guide, as once again it could be used with other common .223 AKMs other than the Saiga/Vepr, but I have no idea what it would cost you to make both if you feel that the stock Saiga/Vepr market is a necessary niche.

Edited by mancat, 30 October 2012 - 11:21 AM.


#22 Jim Digriz

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

I'm just hoping he targets the Saiga, and maybe the VEPR also if feasible. Casting the net too widely would be a mistake. We already have a bunch of 223 AK mags, the problem is that they are (generally speaking) less than ideal for the Saiga. I want a rugged mag with a tight lockup, reliable feeding, and acceptable weight.

#23 mancat

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

Jim, the .223 mags are more similar than most think. The big problem in trying to fit multiple nationalities is that even if you make a mag that fits all of them, it may fit some too tightly or too loose. I would agree that the best idea would be to make the best-fitting and functioning mag for the Saiga/Vepr series, but if he could get a few more models supported, I'm sure it would make the ROI better.

I would actually prefer plastic mags over steel, but I don't know if CSSpecs does plastic? I've been bugging Tapco to make some of their "smooth side" mags in 5.45 and 5.56, which would closely match the Russian factory mags, but they aren't biting. I'm just one guy and I don't have any sort of reputation or pull weight. It would be great if more people would bug them to make these mags, but until then, guys like CSSSpecs could fill the gap.

The Tapco mags and Russian factory mags seem to be similar formulation and molding thickness. Both are pretty damn tough for plastic mags, even without supports.

More options made in the USA is always better for everyone.

Edited by mancat, 30 October 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#24 Jim Digriz

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

The big problem in trying to fit multiple nationalities is that even if you make a mag that fits all of them, it may fit some too tightly or too loose.


Exactly. And with all the variances in the Saigas, it STILL might be too tight or too loose if he targets just Saigas. Too tight is much better than too loose, as I think Mike has already concluded (based on his 308 mags). If it's too tight, you can file it down to fit just right; if it's too loose, you have the potential for feeding problems. I had to file the Weiger mags at the locking tab and at the feedlips, and that's fine.

I think it would be advisable though to include a little sheet in the package describing what _might_ need to be done to fit the mag if it's too tight. A friend of mine was ready to send back for a refund his 308 csspecs mag because it would fall out when shooting, until I explained to him why the locking tab was oversized and how he could fit it.

Edited by Jim Digriz, 31 October 2012 - 11:29 AM.


#25 Jim Digriz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

Mike,
Would it be possible to make these either with an internal floorplate (like the factory 308 mags) or with a flush one (like Galil steel mags)?

Jim

#26 csspecs

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

The floor plate type depends on the follower. I can do M-16/galil type floor plates but the follower has to be the same style.

#27 Jim Digriz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:34 PM

Mike,
A couple of other points for your consideration:
- The Weiger mags easily clear the center bar when inserted. In my rifle, at least - I realize there are a lot of differences in these - the Circle 10 mags would not clear the bar, as they were too tall and thick at the back. (I ended up filing the center bar a bit to allow clearance). Please take into account the variances so as to easily clear the bar. I can provide pics if desired of how close each of those two mags come to the bar.

- The Circle 10 mags are just a little too narrow in the front. This allows some side to side movement and inconsistency in their insertion. Sometimes the mag would be slightly crooked, or slightly pointed away from the barrel. Although they never failed, there was always the potential that they would because of these issues. A tight and sure engagement of the feedlips with the lugs on each side would be greatly appreciated. (Once again I can post some pics of what I am talking about if that would help).

Jim

Edited by Jim Digriz, 01 November 2012 - 12:39 PM.


#28 Jim Digriz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

Mike, can you please do these with ribbing that protrudes inward (such as with Weiger mags and apparently your Saiga 20 mags) rather than ribbing that protrudes outward (like your Saiga 308 mags)? For some reason, the Weiger style just looks sharper.

#29 Brian M1

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

Any news on this? I'm getting itchy to get some steel's! Posted Image

Any news on this? I'm getting itchy to get some steel's! :-)

#30 csspecs

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

Sorry not yet. S-12 first then you get .223s
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