sunnybean 939 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Correct, I have not fired it. This is fresh from the factory. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 So the questions remains....is this normal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Now go shoot some rounds through it and take more photos afterwards. Edited November 4, 2012 by KennyFSU 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ok went to the range this morning, ran 150 Federal bulk through it no issues. Ran 40 rifled Centurion slug, no issues with those either. 35 of slugs, standing @ 100 yards produced 27 hits with irons. As far as kick goes, it kicks less then my S12. My son had his Mossberg 890 and that kicks like a mull with the same ammo. On the bolt impacting the trunnion, it does not. Pic of the bolt Pic of the trunnion Have a total of 700 rounds through it now, could not be happier with it. Just wish I had the funds to buy a few more and really want some 12 rounders + a drum 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ran 275 rounds through it today. Mainly Federal Valuepack. It also ran Winchester Universal without a hitch. The only FTF was mag related. I didn't bring a regular S12 to compare it to but it definitely has less muzzle climb than the Beretta Xtrema2 with the GK-1 attached. It did not run it without the brake. I found that two of my Izzy mags have issues. One has too much play in it. I did not have to fit it to the gun. Rather, the factory took too much off the tab and it is loose. It falls out upon recoil. The other mag has something going on internally which is allowing the rim of the shell to pop out of its groove and jam up inside the mag. As you can see, there is a bit more marring from the bolt carrier hitting the rear trunnion. At this point I am not concerned. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) That doesn't look too bad at all, thanks for the photos and nice collection of long guns. Edited November 4, 2012 by KennyFSU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Sunny, that doesnt look much different than any of my AK's. Looks normal to me. Nice ACR btw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks sunny, Looks very similar to mine. Im going to stop worrying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WUNDERWAFFEN 21 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Mine worked perfectly at the range. I did just drop a buffer into it, I am going to see how that works out. I have a Carolina GK01 copy coming & plan on replacing the stock soon. Explains why the recoil beat me up. I will keep an eye on it. Hopefully it wont get much worse. Funny how some strike & some don't with 3", & some have more recoil than their Saigas & some less? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Thanks gentlemen. I think the real test would be to run a ton of high brass through one and see how it looks. Mine definitely started to mar right away but it seemed to taper off quickly. On the first five rounder the dust cover popped open. I think it was the bottom of the carrier striking the trunnion and lifting up a bit. Once it peened for a few rounds it never happened again. I mainly shoot low brass so I'm not worried about the trunnion strikes. Captain, Yeah, the ACR is new to me. I bought it with a 7.62x39 conversion kit. I wasn't real thrilled with the recoil until I put the PWS brake on it. Now it is a pussycat, just like the SCAR. I'm going to send the barrels off and have them turned down to shed some weight off the front end. It'll be perfect once the barrel is penciled. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Wow, after reading this & seeing the above picture I checked my own Vepr. I was horrorified to see it worse than above- I actually have a circular indentation from the rear of the bolt slamming into the trunnion. I then checked my Saiga 12 that I've own for years & that had no markings. I have only fired my Vepr once so far & only put 60 rounds thru it. 45 rds of Rio buck 10 rds of Rem Sluggers 2 3/4" 5 rds of Rem Magnum Express buck 3" I have to take & post some pictures That semi-circular cut in the rear trunnion is done at the factory and was not caused by your shooting. Mine was like that before I ran shell 1 through it. The cavity is there so you firing pin doesn't get peened by repeatedly smacking the rear trunnion when the bolt and bolt carrier do so. Or so others have said/done before... Eric Boom, does not look that way to me... Interesting. I haven't run any 3" through mine (never shoot 3" anyway) and haven't seen the marring as bad as in your pic. The 2 3/4" slugs and Federal bulk pack I normally shoot don't seem overly abusive, but the hotter loads would obviously impart more energy on the bolt carrier group. I guess a long-term observation of the effects (negative or nil) on the rear trunnion is going to tell the tale. Thanks for the pics Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
varickm 10 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't shoot 3" shells out of my Vepr. There is only 1 gas setting. If it runs birdshot, than 3" magnum loads are gonna beat it up more than magnum loads in a fine tuned Saiga-12. It doesn't bleed off excess gas. Although, it does appear to have a beefier rear trunnion. Maybe it can take the abuse better than a Saiga could, but it's just not worth it to me. Edited November 5, 2012 by varickm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iteachsurfing 50 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Has anyone tried a recoil buffer yet??? http://store.carolin...47-SAIGA/Detail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Ill just say, rubber recoil buffers have no place in an AK. either the AK works, or you fix it. like a band-aid on a knife wound, a buffer does nothing to solve the underlying problem, except later fail, and make things worse than they were to begin with 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
varickm 10 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Especially in a 12ga. AK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raidersfan_5544 57 Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Maybe Greg can come out with a stiffer spring for slugs and buckshot? I'm not sure cause I dont have my vepr in hand yet but if it has the same recoil assembly as the S12...you can replace the spring with a stiffer 1911 recoil spring to help with wear on the trunnion. It worked wonders on an overgassed S12 I had... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vulgotha 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 So what's the deal here about the rear trunion? Cycling buck shot or slugs is risky or abusive to the system? And a rubber recoil insert isn't a good idea at all? Seems like a cheap way to prevent any kind of damage imo, just in case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 So what's the deal here about the rear trunion? Cycling buck shot or slugs is risky or abusive to the system? And a rubber recoil insert isn't a good idea at all? Seems like a cheap way to prevent any kind of damage imo, just in case. So far there is no deal. Everything that has been talked about is from each individual users accounts and each persons setup on their v12 is different and can have different port sizes or be using different ammo, climate...etc. You need to findout how "your" vepr works. You might have issues, you might not. I think the buffer will help, others don't. None of it is fact. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
varickm 10 Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I personally don't use buffers because vepr/saiga 12's need as much room as possible to properly feed and eject..... By the way, my vepr has 5 gas ports. Edited November 7, 2012 by varickm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koljec 37 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Made it to the range and shot 100 rounds of 2 3/4" winchester and federal target loads, 30 rounds of 2 3/4" remington slugs, and 5 rounds of Winchester PDX. Took me 50 rounds of on-and-off target load failures to eject before I realized the GK-01 brake was the issue. I took it off and the target loads cycled fine. However, the recoil reduction by the brake is noticeable -- when the brake is gone, the gun gets punchy. A better stock would probably help. The slugs and PDX cycled just fine with brake, but slug groups weren't particularly accurate -- maybe 3" or so, and I kept hitting high. I don't have a lot of experience shooting slugs from an 18" barrel, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Made it to the range and shot 100 rounds of 2 3/4" winchester and federal target loads, 30 rounds of 2 3/4" remington slugs, and 5 rounds of Winchester PDX. Took me 50 rounds of on-and-off target load failures to eject before I realized the GK-01 brake was the issue. I took it off and the target loads cycled fine. However, the recoil reduction by the brake is noticeable -- when the brake is gone, the gun gets punchy. A better stock would probably help. The slugs and PDX cycled just fine with brake, but slug groups weren't particularly accurate -- maybe 3" or so, and I kept hitting high. I don't have a lot of experience shooting slugs from an 18" barrel, though. You said GK-01 brake. Is that the Russian one or the CSS copy? I shot mine today with the CSS brake, no issues with WIN Universal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koljec 37 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 You said GK-01 brake. Is that the Russian one or the CSS copy? I shot mine today with the CSS brake, no issues with WIN Universal CSS brake. When I removed it, no more FTE the target stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iteachsurfing 50 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) You said GK-01 brake. Is that the Russian one or the CSS copy? I shot mine today with the CSS brake, no issues with WIN Universal CSS brake. When I removed it, no more FTE the target stuff. That's interesting! ... any reason how & why the CSS brake affects cycling? Edited November 10, 2012 by iteachsurfing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Recoil is helping it cycle. Take away the recoil on very light loads, and there isn't enough for it to cycle properly. Would be my guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think it has more to do with the stock it shipped with. I put a Saiga sporter stock on mine (until someone gets off their ass and makes a LEFT SIDE FOLDER), any way the stock it came with sucks in my opinion. It makes it hard to get a good shoulder weld. Like I said above, I had No issues at all with the cheap stuff and the CSS break on. I would like to hear if anyone else is having success or failure though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koljec 37 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Recoil is helping it cycle. Take away the recoil on very light loads, and there isn't enough for it to cycle properly. Would be my guess. That's what it seems to be, I'm open to ideas, though. I like the CSS brake, and it definitely does its recoil reducing job. I think it has more to do with the stock it shipped with. I put a Saiga sporter stock on mine (until someone gets off their ass and makes a LEFT SIDE FOLDER), any way the stock it came with sucks in my opinion. It makes it hard to get a good shoulder weld. I switched out the stock for an RPK wood stock -- it's got about the same length as the factory placeholder. I get a decent enough shoulder weld...I think the low top of the RPK stock is producing the high slug shots. Need to come up with a cheek pad or new stock and see. Edited November 10, 2012 by Koljec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iteachsurfing 50 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I wonder what ammo & spring combos they are using with the Russian Molot GK-01 brake! Seems to work great!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YtjNZrCi1LA&feature=endscreen 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 gas system function in the Saigas varies from unit to unit greatly. I think we presumed the Veprs would have much higher QC, but it's likely this won't effect all veprs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think you are inherently going to see less varience with the Molot shotguns than the Izhmash shotguns, simply due to the barrel. The majority of the issues we have seen in the past with the Saiga 12 is due to the variences in the thickness of the barrel, one gas port one size is going to function differently in a barrel with a different wall thickness. From what I understand, Molot has a better system for barrel manufacturing, and we should see much more consistancy. I do not have a CSS brake, but i can say that loose hip firing had no effect today on the cycling of low brass value pack birdshot. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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