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I have been eyeballing a VEPR since I saw the preorder and started saving my pennies. I now have the cash and have a few questions that I did not immediately see the answers to.

 

1) How many parts ( not including 3 from hi-cap mag) need to be changed for 922 compliance?

 

2) Are there any aftermarket handguards available for it or any in the works? I am not a rail fiend but would like somewhere to attach a VFG.

 

3) I read somewhere that the stock trigger is considered "grainy" and rough. Can anyone elaborate on this and maybe compare it to a stock Saiga trigger perhaps?

 

4) Is changing the FCG the same as with a Saiga, or is it a lot different with the LRBHO and all involved? If different is there any installation tutorials availabel?\

 

Thanks for any replies,

Josh

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1. The general agreement at this point is 5, but I dont think the ATF has released an offical response to this question. Most are just going with what has worked on the Saiga 12 922r compliance. 6 would be a safer # if you cant sleep at night worrying about it.

 

2. You can use standard RPK hand guards, but I have yet to see any made with rails on them already. I am sure someone will get around to it eventually. You could modify regular AK furniture to work if you are creative.

 

3. The trigger is not grainy, its ok to me outside of the trigger slap I felt occasionally. I think its better options on the market and FCG usually are first thing to go on any AK style rifle to meet 922r compliance anyways. Its better then a stock Saiga trigger, but odd to compare since once is a rifle and one is a shotgun.

 

4. Its almost the same. The LRBHO is not fraigle like the saigas and poses no obstacle in changing the FCG. You will have to make some slight modifications to the new FCG you install, but a Dremel will make short work of that. You might also have to file a little bit off your safety lever.

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Thanks for that list. If someone could consult a bit on a configuration for me. All I am actually wanting to change are things making it more functional for me. But then there is 922r.

 

I intend to use US mags - I am not sure if the 5 round that came with it is US.

I need to replace the stock.

Muzzle brake screwed on.

Glued on recoil pad.

 

If I understand the list correctly (assuming the basic list is valid for the Vepr), The only things I actually want that count for 922r are the mags and stock. Brake does not count because the Vepr does not come with one.

So if I uncheck the the butt stock, and magazine body I need 3 more. Uncheck gas piston (cheap and easy) and I need 2.

 

Is this correct so far? Does what I have done correctly lead to 2 more parts required?

 

Suggested parts to get legal. Order for evaluating choice criteria: 1) lowest cost, 2) most improvement of something, 3) least difficult to install

 

The trigger seems to be easy, may improve things, but moderately expensive. If better alternatives are available I would not do this.

 

Please suggest parts.

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CSS has a gas plug for sale now, this is a cheap and easy solution to get more 922r parts.

 

A recoil pad will not make a stock compliant and is not a compliant part. Do you have the wood stock? If so its Russian. If you have the plastic stock its US made.

 

The mag that comes with the VEPR is Russian.

 

The US mag is 3, stock is 1, Brake cancels itself out if its US made. You need one more. Get the Gas Plug from CSS.

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Thank you. That sure raises a question in my mind concerning the utility of that little chart application in the link. It needs to account for the parts/item on their list.

 

I did realize the recoil pad would not count - just being complete in my list of needs. The plastic US stock has to go because I just do not like the size/shape.

 

The answers from Lord AK-47 and chevyman certainly simplifies my required efforts.

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Thank you. That sure raises a question in my mind concerning the utility of that little chart application in the link. It needs to account for the parts/item on their list.

 

I did realize the recoil pad would not count - just being complete in my list of needs. The plastic US stock has to go because I just do not like the size/shape.

 

The answers from Lord AK-47 and chevyman certainly simplifies my required efforts.

 

 

The chart only allows/shows the parts that are counted under 922r. So anything you add or remove from the gun that is not on the list disregard in your mind when making sure its compliant.

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I do understand the intent of the application, but I misunderstood (as in completely missed) the fact that it lists 3 parts for the magazine. I just unchecked the body. It simply did not connect in my mind - follower, floorplate duuhh. Had they been prefixed with magazine I would have gotten it the first time (I think).

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alternety,

 

The list only counts what the ATF counts as parts. They have very secretive and confusing ways that they interpret and enforce laws. You have to guess what they want and hope you are right most of the time, and this is being said by an ex-LEO. I once asked a direct question to an ATF agent while in federal court waiting to testify and his reply to me was basically you would find out in court. Even their officers dont completely understand all of their interpretations of law.

 

Thanks for the reply from you all. I cant wait to get my new V12 in.

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So to verify, this handguard would work on the VEPR? I do not believe it is USA made so no 922 compliance, but with a puck, magazine, PG, and FCG that doesnt really matter anyway. Has any of our resident makers such as Chaos expressed any intent to make a quad?

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/295724/mako-vfr-2-piece-handguard-quad-rail-rpk-aluminum-black

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So... going by the Saiga 12 922r since one for the Vepr 12 is not yet available.. One needs to replace at least 5 foreign parts to run high cap magazines. If the high-cap magazines are US made, then that alone counts for 3. So then, one would only need to replace 2 more of the foreign parts, such as the stock and pistol grip. Am I interpreting this correctly, once again to the best of our knowledge at this time?

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So... going by the Saiga 12 922r since one for the Vepr 12 is not yet available.. One needs to replace at least 5 foreign parts to run high cap magazines. If the high-cap magazines are US made, then that alone counts for 3. So then, one would only need to replace 2 more of the foreign parts, such as the stock and pistol grip. Am I interpreting this correctly, once again to the best of our knowledge at this time?

 

Yes you are correct

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Any further views of the 922r status of the shotgun muzzle brake? I am thinking the CSS studied this well because they were planning to sell a GK-01 clone. Perhaps they have some form of ruling from BATF.

 

What exactly are you asking?

 

If you put a muzzle brake on it you must count it if its foreign. If its US then it adds nothing but an extra part. What im saying is if you are compliant with out a muzzle device then adding a US made device is ok. But if you add a foreign on you must make sure you have 10 or less total foreign to be compliant.

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I am asking what I asked above. I will rephrase. View post 13 for basis.

 

I sent an email to CSS, entitled 922r Vepr. I asked:

There is a thread (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/81815-vepr-questions/) discussing 922r compliance. While going to your site to order a puck, I saw that there is one answer on the thread that differs from the list on your web site: Your US made muzzle brake counting as one compliance item. The thread reply says it is a wash and does not count.

 

Now my terminology may be off here, but I think my question was fairly definitive. YMMV

 

The response was: A US made brake does count for part on the shotgun. It does not on the rifles.

 

Now CSS could have missed the "it is a wash and does not count". So it "counts" but does not matter.

 

It is this possible interpretation I am trying to resolve. This thread says no. The gun is not delivered with the brake so it does "not count". And this sounds reasonable from what I have read.

 

It is over the semantics of does not count vs it counts but makes no difference. And to the actual semantic issues resolved.

 

Reiterating/rephrasing the question: If I have a Vepr 12 and add a CSS US made GK-01 clone muzzle brake, may I count that as one 922r compatibility part for further configuration of the shotgun? Or must I simply ignore it? I have, apparently, two different answers. But the semantics are iffy.

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Go here http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance

 

Read the notes "For Saiga shotguns, because the barrel is threaded and a thread protector is fitted on over it, the ATF may classify that thread protector as a muzzle device. If asked, they would almost certainly rule chokes or anything other than the thread protector to be a muzzle device"

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I am asking what I asked above. I will rephrase. View post 13 for basis.

 

I sent an email to CSS, entitled 922r Vepr. I asked:

There is a thread (http://forum.saiga-1...vepr-questions/) discussing 922r compliance. While going to your site to order a puck, I saw that there is one answer on the thread that differs from the list on your web site: Your US made muzzle brake counting as one compliance item. The thread reply says it is a wash and does not count.

 

Now my terminology may be off here, but I think my question was fairly definitive. YMMV

 

The response was: A US made brake does count for part on the shotgun. It does not on the rifles.

 

Now CSS could have missed the "it is a wash and does not count". So it "counts" but does not matter.

 

It is this possible interpretation I am trying to resolve. This thread says no. The gun is not delivered with the brake so it does "not count". And this sounds reasonable from what I have read.

 

It is over the semantics of does not count vs it counts but makes no difference. And to the actual semantic issues resolved.

 

Reiterating/rephrasing the question: If I have a Vepr 12 and add a CSS US made GK-01 clone muzzle brake, may I count that as one 922r compatibility part for further configuration of the shotgun? Or must I simply ignore it? I have, apparently, two different answers. But the semantics are iffy.

 

You dont "count" us parts towards your compliance. You simply can only have 10 or less of the "countable" foreign parts total at all times if 922r is triggered.

 

922r is easily confusing. Think about it less and just refer to the chart on gunwiki its pretty basic and keeps you from over thinking it.

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Glad to find this thread as I was wondering about 922r compliance. I was reading that most of the S-12 furniture will work with a bit of fitting at most. I'm digging something other than all black so a new PG, stock and hand guard all U.S. made plus the 3 U.S. made parts from an SGM magazine and I should be good to go. If other peeps report an improved trigger after swapping the FCG and no ill effects to the LRBHO I will do that just for a better trigger. It sounds like 922r will be a non issue. I will be running a Poly-choke of some sort as well.

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So to verify, this handguard would work on the VEPR? I do not believe it is USA made so no 922 compliance, but with a puck, magazine, PG, and FCG that doesnt really matter anyway. Has any of our resident makers such as Chaos expressed any intent to make a quad?

 

http://www.midwayusa...-aluminum-black

I was thinking about getting this, but I think someone installed a wooden RPK handgaurd and said it required alot of inside material to be removed to fit. Not willing to drop almost 300 and find out I'm shit outta luck with the fit on something metal

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I was thinking about getting this, but I think someone installed a wooden RPK handgaurd and said it required alot of inside material to be removed to fit. Not willing to drop almost 300 and find out I'm shit outta luck with the fit on something metal

 

Not sure if I'm the one you had in mind, but I installed some RPK wood. It took some dremmeling. It was mostly the lower handguard and buttstock that needed the attention, but it took a while mainly because I had to sand a bit and check, sand a bit, and check, etc...

 

I don't think I'd want to do that to an expensive metal rail though...

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I have been eyeballing a VEPR since I saw the preorder and started saving my pennies. I now have the cash and have a few questions that I did not immediately see the answers to.

 

1) How many parts ( not including 3 from hi-cap mag) need to be changed for 922 compliance?

Well, lets say you go with US made hi caps. You will only need a US FCG to have 6 US parts. I don't expect the BATFE determined parts count will require more than 6, but you never know.

 

2) Are there any aftermarket handguards available for it or any in the works? I am not a rail fiend but would like somewhere to attach a VFG.

Companies are all over this thing like white on rice. It won't be long.

 

3) I read somewhere that the stock trigger is considered "grainy" and rough. Can anyone elaborate on this and maybe compare it to a stock Saiga trigger perhaps?

They are both terrible, IMO, and there is always room for improvement. For now, I am going to do a trigger job on the factory trigger. You can check that out in a couple weeks when we shoot ;)

 

4) Is changing the FCG the same as with a Saiga, or is it a lot different with the LRBHO and all involved? If different is there any installation tutorials availabel?\

It is easier because there is no BHO spring to fiddle with and curse at.

 

Thanks for any replies,

Josh

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