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Saiga .223 unloading live bullet from chamber


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I was at the range today and decided i had not wanted to fire off my last round, so i took my mag out of the rifle and tried pulling the bolt carrier back and it felt like it was wedged shut, i shot the round off and it functioned great. I put the mag back in and charged the rifle again and same thing.... So i shot it off and put a bullet directly in the chamber and let the bolt slam closed and still the gun couldnt be racked by hand (well it could but not without exessive force) None of my other rifles do this so i was wondering if my gun was/is messed up or if something is a little bit off...?

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If its steel, and Russian, chances are it could be lacquer coated. The lacquer can get quite gummy in a hot chamber. The fact that the action will cycle when fired but not when attempting to hand-cycle is because the gas pulse is much more violent than your index finger can muster.

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Sometime the casing is out of spec. And since steel is less forgiving than brass it binds up. Could hot chamber making the coating on the round stick depending on ammo coating. Try cycle a few rounds cold, and if they still stick try another batch or brand. If they still stuck try cleaning the shit out of the chamber.

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i cleaned the chamber let it cool down over night and cleaned the barrel and chamber again went to my backyard and loaded a round same thing.... i checked for burs in the chamber and seen nothing. I will try some more expensive brass cased ammo later on today and see what happens.

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No, my safety is off( actually im quite offended for that being suggested hahaa) but im not guite sure about it yet, i have been using steel cased non lacquer coated wolf ammo. But i just tried brass hornady ammo and it did the same thing, so im stunned and still clueless. I think it is the fact that my front gasblock is slightly canted, could be wrong because with no ammo involved it doesnt have a problem being racked. It is my newer saiga .223 that i recently converted so it might need a little wearing in still.

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No, my safety is off( actually im quite offended for that being suggested hahaa) but im not guite sure about it yet, i have been using steel cased non lacquer coated wolf ammo. But i just tried brass hornady ammo and it did the same thing, so im stunned and still clueless. I think it is the fact that my front gasblock is slightly canted, could be wrong because with no ammo involved it doesnt have a problem being racked. It is my newer saiga .223 that i recently converted so it might need a little wearing in still.

It has nothing to do with "wearing in. Since you just converted it, disassemble, then reassemble to find your problem.
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Everything is 100% in order, this is my 3rd saiga .223, 2nd ive converted. Shes been converted for 5 months and i have no problem firing so im starting to think nothing is wrong? jus tight tolerances maybe head spaceing is ever so slightly off, but i have about 4,000-5,000 rounds through it and just realized this the other day. Its never caused a problem just wasnt sure if it was right? but taking itfrom everyone else i gues its not eyes_droped.gif

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Honestly, ruling out most else, it does sound like headspace. It sounds like the cartridges don't have enough room in the chamber to allow the bolt to lock up easily. If you ride the bolt home slowly while chambering a round does it hang up and not want to go into battery? Another thing to check is how the bolt's cam is riding in the bolt carrier. See if there is any excess friction there from a poorly milled cam or slot.

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Yeah, definitely sounds like too little headspacing. You're going to want to take it to a competent gunsmith so they can properly diagnose the issue. If it is a headspacing problem, being too tight, they should be able to mill off just a little bit from the bolt face in order to make proper headspace... not a DIY job by any means. I would say stop shooting it as headspace issues often lead to big kabooms... but if you've already had 4k rounds with no problem I don't foresee it happening now... but I just can't understand how you just now noticed it?? Too little headspacing isn't something that happens over time, only too much headspacing as the chamber erodes and parts loosen. You never worked the action by hand with a chambered round?

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normally i just shoot 20pack bullets and nothing more, but those 20 round packs all came from a bulk pack of 5,000 rounds so i initially though maybe the bullets were bad as suggested so i bought some different and determined it was something else, but i only have 80 or so packs of bullets left so i have shot near 3500 rounds and nothing yet has happened, and the other day i bought some new mags at a gunshow and never hardly shoot that gun till she gets hot so i shot quite a bit and went to go check out the target thats when i realized the problem. And i will take her in to see if its such a problem that needs to be adressed or if it is fine. To bad i dont know of any good gunsmiths in michigan scorn.gif

 

and yes i can work the action while loaded but it involves me grabing the bolt carrier handle and slamming the but stock on a table or bench.

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Took it to a gunsmith today and was told that headspacing was the deal, i was also told that tight headspacing isnt a problem just a inconvienence. I was told that it is safe and i should only be really worried about loose headspacing. Does anyone have any input, i want to take his word but some reinforcemnet to it would be nice.

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i was also told that tight headspacing isnt a problem just a inconvienence. I was told that it is safe and i should only be really worried about loose headspacing. Does anyone have any input, i want to take his word but some reinforcemnet to it would be nice.

 

which goes to show you, you don't have to be knowledgeable to be a gunsmith, just pass the background check and have your check not bounce to get a license.

 

if this so called "gunsmith" is telling you that, then I would look for another gunsmith. too tight head space stresses on the mechanism which in turn may shorten component life expectancy. think about it for a second - the cartridge is being crammed into a excessively tight chamber ( think of putting 10lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag) - it's putting undue stresses on the locking lugs of the bolt. the extra force can wear the engagement surfaces of the locking lugs.

 

 

the AK is just like any other firearm, head space is critical - too tight is just as bad as too loose

Edited by Matthew Hopkins
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Knowing the headspace is off, I couldn't be comfortable shooting again. Find a COMPETENT smith, prefereably one who knows a little about AK's, who can correct the bolt. If that means shipping it to someone who knows AK's, then that's a small price to pay for a safe weapon..........

 

..........safe weapon, is that an oxymoron?bad_smile.gif

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Just got my rifle back, taking the man who fixed it's word for it didnt even test the rifle out...... Got home and put in a empty steel cased shell, it didnt stick but still felt tacky, a empty brass next and it was able to be removed easily. Is this typical like high brass vs. low brass on a shotgun?. And buy the way he only need to polish the face of the bolt and did nothing else, by the time im done with this rifle i could right a book about minor problems and cure on russian firearms hahaah

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Just got my rifle back, taking the man who fixed it's word for it didnt even test the rifle out...... Got home and put in a empty steel cased shell, it didnt stick but still felt tacky, a empty brass next and it was able to be removed easily. Is this typical like high brass vs. low brass on a shotgun?. And buy the way he only need to polish the face of the bolt and did nothing else, by the time im done with this rifle i could right a book about minor problems and cure on russian firearms hahaah

 

Steel versus brass is usually like that. My understanding is that because the steel casings won't expand and seal the chamber as well as brass, they tend to make it just a tad oversized to make up for it. I hope you got your gun straightened out!

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And buy the way he only need to polish the face of the bolt and did nothing else,

 

 

crikky, is your area full of incompetent fucks who pass themselves off as gunsmiths?

 

first you take it to one person, he tells you, no problem.

 

then you take it to another and he trailer park hillbill it and calls it "fix", by polishing the face of the bolt. I mean really, where the hell are you finding these yahoos?

 

 

dude, the only way to PROPERLY fix a out of spec (too tight chamber) is to take out the barrel pin, reposition the barrel using a GO gage, then check with a NO-GO, and then re-drill the barrel pin hole to accommodate a oversize barrel pin.

 

I bet this yahoo didn't even have any gauges, he probably just buffed the face of your bolt and said, "yep, that thar be good 'enuff, I dun fix it"

Edited by Matthew Hopkins
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I guess you could say that michigan is still in the backwoos when it comes to guns, no one likes semiauto firearms around here besides the younger generation, but from where i am i cant even use a rifle to hunt, but anyways im sure he is the gunsmith and i originally bought the rifle from his store and if it goes kaboom on me some time, im sure i can take it back to him and get a refund or a new converted rife. And after posting on here last night i took it out back and loaded it up and it still shoots the same but now i can actually unload the chamber with ease if nesessary... so as far as im concerned he dun fixed it...

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On a rifle that's already had the barrel set and pinned, AK headspace is NOT adjusted by modifying the bolt face. Tight headspace is compensated for by modifying the rearward faces of the locking lugs of the bolt, in order to cause the bolt to enter lockup further back from the chamber.

 

Headspacing an AK bolt by changing the face profile is almost impossible, when you consider all the parts that must be clearanced at once to affect headspace - both outer and inner bolt face surfaces.. Headspacing a bolt in this fashion would also increase the FP protrusion depth and could lead to pierced primers - not good.

 

If a gunsmith is telling you he modified your bolt face, he's doing it wrong.

 

A smith needs to check the headspace with BOTH a GO and NO-GO gauge. A bolt can lock up on a GO gauge and still be too tight to operate reliably. But the guy really needs to check hard to make sure that headspace is the problem, and not an issue somewhere else within the chamber or operating system of the rifle.

 

When you consider the tolerances of headspacing, it doesn't take much to bring it from "too tight" to "dangerously loose," (several thousandths of an inch) so make sure the problem is truly identified before you get some guy grinding away at your bolt.

 

FWIW, somewhat loose headspacing is almost always the norm on a military rifle.

 

Last but not least.. The thing that amazes me, is how many AK kit-builds aren't headspaced at all. Look around on a number of boards and you will find some posts from guys who just slapped a kit together that may have not been matching or pre-headspaced. Some guys even say "an AK doesn't need to be headspaced." They just pressed the barrel in enough to make sure the bolt closed on a snap cap or dummy round, and went from there. Buyer beware when buying a used kit build!

Edited by mancat
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