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I bought a new vepr 54r from Centerfire Systems recently and it has the failing to eject (FTE) problem from day one I shot it. I sent it back to Wolf for a fix a few weeks ago. The gun smith at Wolf found no damaged or mis-assembled parts with the rifle and adjusted the "ejection rail". I received the rifle back on Thursday last week and test fired it on Friday with 120 rounds. I got 5 FTEs, as shown in the pictures. I noticed that the rifle's ejections had no consistency in distance and angle. In addition, some of the used cases were badly deformed or marked at multiple spots.

 

I sent the new FTE information back to Wolf again early this morning but they are not responding so far. I sent a message to CenterFire Systems too. They are not responding either. What should I do next?

 

Here are the pics of the deformed cases and my dented scope by ejected cases.

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Edited by vepr54r
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Looks like the ammunition is under powered, or something is robbing all the energy from the bolt.

 

I'd take a close look at your extractor and check its function. Next, I'd take a close look for any wear marks on the receiver rails, and post pictures of that here.

 

Also, check your guide rod and recoil spring and make sure they're lubed and not binding.

 

 

Failing all that, if the rifle is fine, it's the ammunition. Get a box of wolf, silver bear, or brown bear. If it doesn't have problems with that ammunition, and it seems noticeably more powerful, then I'd be checking in with people here if you can get away with removing a few coils from your recoil spring, or if another recoil spring of lighter weight will work.

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Does this happen with both magazines?

 

Yes, it happened with two new OEM magazines.

 

which surplus ammo are you using?

 

I used one of the finest surplus ammo advertised by the seller "7.62x54R Russian Military Surplus ammo 1976 Factory 188 in Wood Crate".

Edited by vepr54r
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Looks like the ammunition is under powered, or something is robbing all the energy from the bolt.

 

I'd take a close look at your extractor and check its function. Next, I'd take a close look for any wear marks on the receiver rails, and post pictures of that here.

 

Also, check your guide rod and recoil spring and make sure they're lubed and not binding.

 

 

Failing all that, if the rifle is fine, it's the ammunition. Get a box of wolf, silver bear, or brown bear. If it doesn't have problems with that ammunition, and it seems noticeably more powerful, then I'd be checking in with people here if you can get away with removing a few coils from your recoil spring, or if another recoil spring of lighter weight will work.

 

Thank you for your suggesions. I used one of the finest suplus russian ammo advertised by the seller "7.62x54R Russian Military Surplus ammo 1976 Factory 188 in Wood Crate" . Nobody else complained about this ammo as I know. In addition, the first 39 rounds was ejected more or less normally after Wolf "adjusted" the "ejection rail", but then it became noraml as a FTE rifle. I also compared the free play between the ejector and the ejector slot on the bolt head of this rifle with that of a smooth functioning Saiga AK: this rifle has a much bigger free play, as shown in the pictures (pic1 for the FTE Vepr and pic2 for the good Saiga). I checked the free play by exerting force on the bolt handle of the rifles.

 

Also, I think Wolf and Centerfire Systems should carry the ball to have the problem fixed. Instead, they are playing deaf. Any suggestion to make them carry the ball? The Vepr is advertised as 100% life time warranty.

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Edited by vepr54r
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yea I would look at the ammo first.

 

As I explained in the other reply, I don't think it's a ammo thing. Also look at the abnormal wear on the ejection tip of this Vepr: it's getting rounded after just above 300 rounds. My other Aks do not have this phenomenon either.

 

Aslo check drhobo's post on this board. He used different ammos and his Vepr failed to eject anyway.

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Edited by vepr54r
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Have you tried different ammo? Just because the seller says its good ammo doesn't make it so, also the wear on the tip of your extractor rail isn't wear, that is what the gunsmith filed to adjust how your rifle ejects the case, some saiga 308 would send the case into the top cover and the shape of the tip is adjusted on individual rifles to change the direction of the case ejection. But really it sounds like you are unhappy with this particular rifle and want another rifle, it sucks that you are treated this way, but contacting legal counsel on your behalf seems to be the best way, people really start moving when an attorney contacts them.

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Have you tried different ammo? Just because the seller says its good ammo doesn't make it so, also the wear on the tip of your extractor rail isn't wear, that is what the gunsmith filed to adjust how your rifle ejects the case, some saiga 308 would send the case into the top cover and the shape of the tip is adjusted on individual rifles to change the direction of the case ejection. But really it sounds like you are unhappy with this particular rifle and want another rifle, it sucks that you are treated this way, but contacting legal counsel on your behalf seems to be the best way, people really start moving when an attorney contacts them.

 

Thank you for the info. But the ejector tip of my Vepr was not like this when I received the rifle (I cleaned it as soon as I received it): the tip is actually getting rounded by the used case at this early stage use of this rifle.

 

As I explained earlier, I doubt it's a ammo thing. The rifle must be out of specifications in some of its parts. WPA does not respond likely because they know a out-of-specification rifle is time-consuming and costly (e.g., ammo money) to diagnose and fix: they could not or were not willing to diagnose and fix this FTE problem when the rifle was back with them.

 

It's true that I am not happy with the rifle: I bought it new and was promished for a 100% life-time warranty (just check the tout at WPA's website). The rifle malfunctions from day one, but nobody wants to carry the ball, neither Wolf nor Centerfire Systems.

 

Actually the rifle came with other problems too: a bent stock, a rusty bolt head, and damaged finish. Wolf replaced the bent stock but refused to replace the bolt head. I can live with the others, but the FTE problem is reallying bothering me. I also wonder where is the quality control at Molot/Wolf: this rifle is allowed to get into the market with so many defects.

Edited by vepr54r
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You are avoiding the question, did you try other ammo or not? you cannot rule out ammo if you have not used other brand/type of ammo. Do a systematic diagnosis of the problem, check the most easiest thing to replace, in this case ,ammo, if you get same results with other ammo, then move on to other areas, extractor, the extractor rail, etc. But saying its not the ammo without actually checking is pointless. You can argue about it all you want, but not once in your post have you said you tried different ammo. You kept stating that you dont think its the ammo.

Not trying to be mean or anything but try it. I can understand wolf if they used different ammo and everything was fine for them, yet you keep using just one type of ammo and keep getting jams.

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You are avoiding the question, did you try other ammo or not? you cannot rule out ammo if you have not used other brand/type of ammo. Do a systematic diagnosis of the problem, check the most easiest thing to replace, in this case ,ammo, if you get same results with other ammo, then move on to other areas, extractor, the extractor rail, etc. But saying its not the ammo without actually checking is pointless. You can argue about it all you want, but not once in your post have you said you tried different ammo. You kept stating that you dont think its the ammo.

Not trying to be mean or anything but try it. I can understand wolf if they used different ammo and everything was fine for them, yet you keep using just one type of ammo and keep getting jams.

 

I seriously wish you had been the supposed gun smith at Wolf who handled my rifle. He only told me to try "steel ammo", which I did. He never told me he tried various ammos without FTEs. He never told me either to try various steel ammos, although he had the rifle and checked it personally. Now he's not responding after I sent in the new FTE info.

 

BTW, what's your opinion on the abnormally worn ejector tip? How can it be fixed? And what about the big free play between the ejector and its slot on the bolt head? I also wonder why there were no jams for the first 39 shots of the same ammo after he "adjusted" the "ejection rail".

Edited by vepr54r
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No such luck for me being wolf's gunsmith, but now that you admit to using different ammo, how did that perform? Do the casings land in the same spot as the surplus ammo?

As far as the wear on your ejector, it doesnt look like wear from the impact of the case, the material on the tip has disappeared, if that was from impact you would see a little bit of a mushrooming effect.

It is possible to adjust where and how your rifle ejects its casings, look up in the saiga 308 section about severely dented brass cases, there is someone who talks about changing the profile of the ejector to change the direction of the thrown case.

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No such luck for me being wolf's gunsmith, but now that you admit to using different ammo, how did that perform? Do the casings land in the same spot as the surplus ammo?

As far as the wear on your ejector, it doesnt look like wear from the impact of the case, the material on the tip has disappeared, if that was from impact you would see a little bit of a mushrooming effect.

It is possible to adjust where and how your rifle ejects its casings, look up in the saiga 308 section about severely dented brass cases, there is someone who talks about changing the profile of the ejector to change the direction of the thrown case.

 

Thanks for the info. When I bought the Vepr 54r, I had been thinking using the military surplus ammo alreay. If Molot stated 54r Vepr only eats commercial ammo but not military ammo, I would absolutely have not bought it. If I still wanted a Vepr, I would have then had likely bought the .308 for saving 100 bucks.

 

Fortunatelly, the supposed gun smith at Wolf didn't suggest me to use brass ammo (even not various brass ammos). Otherwise, I'd be in big trouble in test firing my Vepr. I will try to save money in the coming months to buy various steel ammos for test firing it, if I cannot have Wolf or Centerfire Systems to carry the ball.

Edited by vepr54r
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I can't speak to specifics as I still haven't got a 54r Vepr yet... but I hope you guys don't get too discouraged with these problems. I know it sucks that the importers might not be picking up the slack in the warranty department, but these are still AK style rifles... and there's very little you can't fix yourself when it comes down to it. Just keep the flow of info going and someone will eventually come up with a proper fix.

 

Regarding the worn ejector rail... are you sure that the wear isn't actually WPA's 'fix' for the out of spec rail?? I'd also make sure to check the front end of your gun. Make sure the piston, gas block, and gas ports are in good shape and clean. Don't forget that surpluss 54r ammo is corrosive, and washing away those corrosive salts in the hard to reach spots could cause this sort of problem.

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Until you try some new manufacture commercial ammunition in the rifle, nothing can be done or known about the problem.

 

Because you fail to understand WHY that needs to be done, doesn't mean it isn't important. If you knew why it needs done, you would have already had the issue resolved on your own.

 

What I see is a brand new rifle suffering with ammunition that lacks the umph to cycle the gun fully. Marketing BS on the part of who sold you the ammo need not apply to reality. If the rifle is still FTEing with wolf, silver bear, or brown bear, then I would see exactly what kind of FTE you were having then and diagnose further from there.

 

It's still looking like a over-sprung or under gassed rifle to me, but there's no way to know that without some testing controls in place. Thank god you never bought a saiga 12.

 

I don't see what filing on your ejector would resolve as, if anything, it would be too short in this situation already.

Edited by Tombs
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Don't forget that surpluss 54r ammo is corrosive, and washing away those corrosive salts in the hard to reach spots could cause this sort of problem.

 

One reason why I can't understand why someone would buy this gun solely with the intent of using corrosive ammunition.

 

Buy a mosin if you want to deal with all that crap, much easier to pour some water down the bore and be done with it. With a gas gun, you're looking at one hell of a mess to clean, none the less with wood furniture thrown into the mix. I really can't picture this rifle being designed to run surplus ammunition.

 

It's a russian hunting rifle... Unlikely that most people who would have interest in a 5 shot hunting rifle would buy it to blow spam cans away dirt shooting all day.

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I can't speak to specifics as I still haven't got a 54r Vepr yet... but I hope you guys don't get too discouraged with these problems. I know it sucks that the importers might not be picking up the slack in the warranty department, but these are still AK style rifles... and there's very little you can't fix yourself when it comes down to it. Just keep the flow of info going and someone will eventually come up with a proper fix.

 

Regarding the worn ejector rail... are you sure that the wear isn't actually WPA's 'fix' for the out of spec rail?? I'd also make sure to check the front end of your gun. Make sure the piston, gas block, and gas ports are in good shape and clean. Don't forget that surpluss 54r ammo is corrosive, and washing away those corrosive salts in the hard to reach spots could cause this sort of problem.

 

Thank you for the points. The abnormal wear on the ejector tip was there before the rifle was shipped back to Wolf; they only "adjusted" the "ejection rail". The bolt head came with rust on it, not after I shot it. I am a guy liking oiling my gun as often as possible. I cleaned and oiled the rifle as soon as I received it.

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Until you try some new manufacture commercial ammunition in the rifle, nothing can be done or known about the problem.

 

Because you fail to understand WHY that needs to be done, doesn't mean it isn't important. If you knew why it needs done, you would have already had the issue resolved on your own.

 

What I see is a brand new rifle suffering with ammunition that lacks the umph to cycle the gun fully. Marketing BS on the part of who sold you the ammo need not apply to reality. If the rifle is still FTEing with wolf, silver bear, or brown bear, then I would see exactly what kind of FTE you were having then and diagnose further from there.

 

It's still looking like a over-sprung or under gassed rifle to me, but there's no way to know that without some testing controls in place. Thank god you never bought a saiga 12.

 

I don't see what filing on your ejector would resolve as, if anything, it would be too short in this situation already.

 

Thank you for the point. I wish Wolf's supposed gun smith had made this point to me and explained why the rifle had those abnoraml wear and free play at its key parts.

 

BTW, I have Saiga, as I mentioned earlier. They function smoothly wthout a single problem from day one.

Edited by vepr54r
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Don't forget that surpluss 54r ammo is corrosive, and washing away those corrosive salts in the hard to reach spots could cause this sort of problem.

 

One reason why I can't understand why someone would buy this gun solely with the intent of using corrosive ammunition.

 

Buy a mosin if you want to deal with all that crap, much easier to pour some water down the bore and be done with it. With a gas gun, you're looking at one hell of a mess to clean, none the less with wood furniture thrown into the mix. I really can't picture this rifle being designed to run surplus ammunition.

 

It's a russian hunting rifle... Unlikely that most people who would have interest in a 5 shot hunting rifle would buy it to blow spam cans away dirt shooting all day.

 

I got your point. I wish Molot and Wolf give more information on the ammos their Vepr is designed to shoot. If the Vepr rifle is designed to withstand shooting a few round a time with a specific type of ammo, they should have given this information to their customers. Otherwise, their customers will not be able to understand why their Vepr has abnormal wear and free play at its key parts with just over 300 shots, and can neither understand why these abnormal wear and play have nothing to do with the malfunctioning of their Vepr.

 

If the supposed gun smith at Wolf indeed thinks this is just a ammo thing after personally checking the rifle, he should have been straightforward to their customers.

 

BTW, they indeed have a Hunter version of this semi auto rifle too.

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Thank eveyone for your input and time. I found I have not only wasted my money on this rifle but also lots of my time (shipping back and forth, test firing, searching for possible solutions myself, looking for help online, etc). I will not be able to stop by as often as before, and I will try to find a solution for my rifle using all the information I got on this board and elsewhere.

 

I wish eveybody has a good one when you buy your next rifle, be it a Saiga, Browning, Remington, whatever you like.

Edited by vepr54r
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Have you done a thorough cleaning of the chamber? I notice you are getting a lot of lube on the other areas of the gun while firing and if your lube is running into the chamber as you fire, and firing corrosive steel cased surplus, you could be gumming up the chamber causing the FTE. Remember that steel cased ammo does not seal to the chamber walls as brass does. So there is residue building in the chamber around each bullet. When you get 39 shots with no issue, and then it is consistently FTE, it makes me belive for those first 39 rounds you were still operating without gunk, once enough lube and residue built up in the chamber and heated, it gunked and gave you your problem. Try a good cleaning, test fire, wait til you have another FTE, clean and repeat. If it appears to continue to happen like that, use less of whatever lube you are using in the area directly around the breach block

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a hunter version and I have shot heavy ball, light ball and brass cased ammo. The brass case ammo gave me a few problems as did the steel case. I noticed that after shooting the rifle for over 150rds that the FTF stopped. That was untill I started letting other people shoot and it would come back. I have not shot any surplus through yet because I do not want to have to deal with the cleaning involved with shooting such ammo so I could not give any feedback on that concern.

 

I hope you find a solution to your issue brother because I hate to see a fellow Molot owner in stress!

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