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AR mag adapter with a bullet guide


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I have a renegade buck AR mag adapter on my 223. It works well except for the occasional feed issue. It seems to always be from the right side of the mag and the tip ends up below the chamber. I was wondering if anyone had used the bullet guide with the adapter. Plus with the guide I could use the Galil mags as well as others and have more options for mags.

 

Also, I've heard some people say the PMags don't work with these. The problem I had with them was because the bolt locking into the trunnion actually hits the front corner of the mag, the polymer doesn't clearance like the aluminum so it bounces and pushed the mag out of the catch. A little trim and the problem goes away.

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I have a TAKD adapter w/ a bullet guide installed. Before the bullet guide I'd occasionally have the same problem with rounds not coming in high enough. When I did my reading before buying the adapter I think I remember Texas AK designs saying it varies from gun to gun, some need the bullet guide with the adapter and some dont (perhaps he will chime in and clarify). Not sure if this applies with the Renegade Buck adapter or not.

 

I did have to file a little bit off of the adapter after I installed the bullet guide to get the adapter to seat correctly. The .223 bullet guide I got from CSS sits out a little beyond the front trunnion, that little bit of overlap caused the adapter to not want to lock in, it was pushing up on the bottom of the front lip of the bullet guide when I inserted the adapter. 5 minutes with a dremel fixed that though, had to grind just enough off of the adapter that it would sit flush with the bottom of the bullet guide rather than pushing up on it.

 

I use pmags in mine, the only small annoyance is that it can be hard to get the mag to lock in. I usually have to smack the bottom of the mag to get it to lock in place. I was wary about messing with the mag catch to fix it, hadn't considered that the top of the mag might actually be the problem, I'll have to look into that. On yours it was just the front corners of the mag that needed attention?

 

I can try to get pictures of my setup if you'd like, all I have is a cellphone so it isn't easy to get great shots but I can give it a shot if you're interested.

Edited by raider929
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I've seen similar issues as JTucker.

 

Similar setup/effects: Renegadebuck adapter, locking lug intercepting the front-right corner of new magazines. With a new magazine, the magazine may either eject when the bolt carrier goes forward and the lug contacts the magazine (the lug 'wins'), or the magazine stays in, but the carrier fails to travel fully forward and lock into battery (the magazine 'wins').

 

After one or two carrier traversals though, every AR magazine I own now has a small nick in the front-right corner (the lug always wins in the end).

 

For what it's worth, I do have Dinzag's bullet guide installed as well. I never had any issues with the adapter where a round failed to chamber (about 1800 rounds though it sofar, maybe a bit more then half of that without the guide) either with or without the guide. I installed the guide to be able to use a set of steel galil magazines I found on-the-cheap in addition to AR magazines.

 

Both work great as far as I can tell.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Kind of adding to this thread (found it in a search). I have found that I have 2 different feeding issues with my MSA AR-15 Adapter'd Saiga .223. I had 2 or 3 FTF's today using both P-Mags and USGI's. One of the issues I've had in the past is the bullet gets caught on the front of the USGI mags (does not happen on the p-mags and a few of my USGI's have these marks, others have light marks and others have zero). See Picture below. And one is the rounds get caught on the bottom edge of the barrel, before entering. I am thinking a bullet guide is going to solve this? Opinions? Also, I've noticed marks on the adapter itself very much like the USGI Mags. I am thinking of switching and just running P-mags because I've never had any mag-related feed problems from them. I too have that mark at the front right of the mag someone mentioned.

 

2012-12-16_22-11-14_818_zps51003bd3.jpg

2012-12-16_22-11-46_264_zps413c25c0.jpg

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Judging by your photos, the MSA adapter already has a kind of bullet guide, the front part of the adapter sticking up into the receiver acting also as the front lip (working in tandem with the rear locking tab securing it into the receiver) like a standard Kalashnikov magazine. I don't think there's enough room for an additional bullet guide without either cutting back the bullet guide, or worse, cutting one part of the adapter which seems to be locking it into the weapon.

 

Also, the strike marks on the adapter, are those from the case mouth of the round? If so I don't know if adding a second guide will add enough rise to prevent the case mouth from striking the adapter.

 

Could it be an alignment issue with the installation of the adapter, where the 'right' set of tolerance stacking exhibits this behavior with magazines other than p-mags?

 

Just my two cents, hopefully someone else can give you a better answer.

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Judging by your photos, the MSA adapter already has a kind of bullet guide, the front part of the adapter sticking up into the receiver acting also as the front lip (working in tandem with the rear locking tab securing it into the receiver) like a standard Kalashnikov magazine. I don't think there's enough room for an additional bullet guide without either cutting back the bullet guide, or worse, cutting one part of the adapter which seems to be locking it into the weapon.

 

Also, the strike marks on the adapter, are those from the case mouth of the round? If so I don't know if adding a second guide will add enough rise to prevent the case mouth from striking the adapter.

 

Could it be an alignment issue with the installation of the adapter, where the 'right' set of tolerance stacking exhibits this behavior with magazines other than p-mags?

 

Just my two cents, hopefully someone else can give you a better answer.

 

I guess it is kind of currently working as one. I just ordered a Danzig arms bullet guide. I do expect to possibly have to trim it back / modify it. I might also have to maybe put a little bevel on that edge of the magazine adapter. Raider929 sounds like he has the same mag adapter as me (I assume) (Texas AK Designs was once MSA). I was thinking it was the bullet making the marks but it may be the case head. I just put a USGI magazine in to illustrate the problem better. It almost seems if the magazines locked up higher into the adapter it would alleviate the problem (although impossible as that is what the adapter sets the magazine depth at). I milled out enough to have the mags ever so slightly a loose fit. I did an initial round of milling and some of my mags would not go high enough and lock in. I went a little deeper on the depth, maybe another 1/32" to compensate. As the picture shows, when I pull the magazine backwards at the bottom of the magazines (this causes the mag to tilt foward at the top) when in the rifle, the top lip of both magazines (pmag and USGI) sit flush with the magazine adapter. This is the position the magazine is in when it is being pushed forward by the force of the bolt loading a round. This would make sense that the casehead is scraping / getting caught possibly on the magazine adapter. Could tilting followers be a possible issue in the USGI Mags? These have the factory followers (not anti-tilt ones). A thought on the Pmags might be the case is simply skimming across the polymer material and not getting caught like they do on the USGI's aluminum for the "catching on magazine" issue I have encountered. Hope the picture helps and my descriptions are understandable.

 

2012-12-18_19-56-39_509_zps3c6c4524.jpg

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The first pics you have of the mag looks like your locking lugs hits the corner of the mag like mine does, I guess the Renegade Buck catch isn't strong enough to hold the pmags in when the lugs slams shut on the polymer, instead it just shakes it loose after a few rounds. I'll have to look at my GI mags to see if they have marks like that.

 

Let us know how the bullet guide works because I'd really like to get this thing as reliable as possible in case I even need it.

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The first pics you have of the mag looks like your locking lugs hits the corner of the mag like mine does, I guess the Renegade Buck catch isn't strong enough to hold the pmags in when the lugs slams shut on the polymer, instead it just shakes it loose after a few rounds. I'll have to look at my GI mags to see if they have marks like that.

 

Let us know how the bullet guide works because I'd really like to get this thing as reliable as possible in case I even need it.

 

It does hit and makes a little tiny gouge on the aluminum mags. What do you mean when the lug slams shut on the polymer, when the bolt hits the locking lug? or when the bolt hilts the follower on the p-mags?

 

And I definitely will update as soon as i install it, dinzag says shipping times is 1-2 weeks so hopefully soon.

Edited by ozziemo27
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When the bolt hits the follower it's a noticeable downward push but it works fine. I've trimmed the front edge of the Pmags a little and they work better. Maybe it's a combination of the two. Mine seemed to drop when the lug slams shut on the polymer, on the aluminum it just cleared itself.

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In my case, the dinzag guide / renegadebuck adapter seems to work well together. the leading edge of the bullet guide stops just short of the magazine, it sits close to the magazine, but does not directly contact it. Among the differences between the MSA and renegadebuck adapter is that no part of the renegadebuck adapter actually sits inside of the receiver, so there's nothing to obstruct a bullet guide.

 

Aside from the AR15 magazines, the only magazines I have aside from the stock magazine and a few surefires are a dozen steel galil magazines. I have to either remove the bullet guide or cut it back a bit to use the surefile or stock magazine, but the steel galil (unmodified) work like a charm.

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry to necro but I had forgotten about this thread and figured I should update it for future users. The addition of the bullet guide seemed to alleviate all misfeed problems in both USGI aluminum mags and Pmags. I notched the front of the mag adapter to accommodate the bullet guide and haven't had any problems since, about 150-200 rounds later.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Wish someone came out with M4-style bullet guide/feed ramp combo for Saigas.

 

My current rifle maker builds his BG/FR right in (see the picture on your left), but I don't think he sells them separately.

(I have built-in AR magwell).

 

I never had any feeding issues with any type of ammo (and so the bullet: HP, SP, FMJ, etc.).

I don't see the reason for smoothing it out and turning into M4 glamour (left picture), but wouldn't turn it down if it came that way.

 

post-28515-0-87591600-1391614658.jpg

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