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S12 bolt catch lever problem


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So I ran into a new problem the other day at a competition. I locked back the bolt to reload mags after which the bolt wouldn't return closed. I then realized that the bolt hold open latch under the underside of the gun has disappeared up into the gun. Later on at home, after I managed to get everything back to normal, I dremeled out a bit of the bolt latch lever so the spring wouldn't slide horizontally off it. After I did this, I realized that I could still get the bolt catch lever to go up past the bolt rail, which if pushed up enough, would make the spring slide off it breaking the gun again until it was dissasembled. This mainly happens if I pull the underside latch to the right and push up so it'll clear the bolt rail at an angle.

 

So my the current solutions I'm considering are to grind down the bolt catch lever so I'll just lose that functionality but it'll act as a spacer on the hammer pin. The second would be to add another washer on the hammer pin so put more pressure between the hammer spring and bolt catch lever so it'll be less likely to be able to go off at an angle past the bolt rail.

 

Ideas? Anyone else run into this? Below is a video that shows how I can get it to go past the bolt rail if I pull to the right on the lever.

 

 

 

S12 bolt catch lever problem video:

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I had the same thing happen and I removed it altogether. On one of my S-12s I just have a notched safety lever on the other I have no BHO at all. Being left handed I've gotten good at holding the gun with the fingers of my left hand and the charging handle with my thumb. My right hand is free to remove/change mags.

 

Just how I do it.

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This happens because the hammer axis was ground down too far and allows that sideways movement on the BHO plate.

Add the washer like you said to take up the extra space and then test to see if the BHO plate can get past the rail.

 

The BHO is nice to have and it's really easy to fix it.

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I did the washer on hammer pin fix. Works great, had to sand the face of the washer so the fit was tight but didn't bind the hammer. It is now physically impossible for the BHO to clear the rail. Had to do some filling on the safety and slot the BHO to get it all back together.

Also make sure your hammer face is center on the firing pin when done.

 

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There are two fixes. Washer as mentioned above/ or better yet, prevention by custom fitting when you modify your hammer during conversion rather than buying one generically fit or exactly matching your OEM hammer axle tube's width.

 

The other fix is bending a kink in the hammer spring such that it pulls outward and just contacts the BHO. This will help solve the potential for the spring to slip off of the trigger body leg too.

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This happens because the hammer axis was ground down too far and allows that sideways movement on the BHO plate.

Add the washer like you said to take up the extra space and then test to see if the BHO plate can get past the rail.

 

The BHO is nice to have and it's really easy to fix it.

This is knowledge, people. Class is in session.

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My S12 and 7.62 both had this issue with the saiga converted tapco G2 trigger group. I bent the leg of the hammer spring to push the BHO against the reciever wall, have had no issues with the spring holding it over on the 2 guns. Same as what Gunfun said. May not be the correct fix, but ez and works and requires no disasembly. On a side note, I miss this on my other AK and may be the guy that goes there.what.gif

Edited by rnemhrd
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Yay, now you have a dirt hole, and have to shift your grip to lock your bolt open.

 

I hate being able to lock my bolt open with one hand, and have it release automatically when I yank the handle.

 

Krebs has a nice finger tab, but as a BHO, I consider it to be inferior to the factory one.

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As soon as I see that pile of conversion parts for sale from a Saiga rifle with a BHO lever in it the Romy is getting a slot and new guts. "why would you do that to an AKM?" I'm that guy and it's mine.lol It's only a WASR too.

Edited by rnemhrd
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Dirt hole? AK's(Saiga) eat dirt for breakfast!

 

Yes, I agree that the Krebs is a little more unwieldy, but I'd rather fiddle with that than run the risk of having the stock one lock up the gun. I chose the reliability of the gun over the convenience of the stock BHO.

 

Yay, now you have a dirt hole, and have to shift your grip to lock your bolt open.

 

I hate being able to lock my bolt open with one hand, and have it release automatically when I yank the handle.

 

Krebs has a nice finger tab, but as a BHO, I consider it to be inferior to the factory one.

Edited by turbotezza
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AKs also get dirt based indigestion, and occasional constipation. While they are a great design, I bet just about every owner of a kalashnikov has had a few feeding or ejection issues. I think the mythological reputation causes people to discount the various failures they experience personally and dismiss them.

 

The krebs safety is a fine product, priced as though it were an extraordinary product. As discussed above, it is quite simple to keep your BHO without sacrificing reliability. I am pretty sure most of the people with the OP's problem have receivers with a little extra slop in that area, which can be taken up by fitting.

Drop in trigger groups take enough off of the hammer axle to fit in every siaiga, which means too much for some. I like the krebs style tab enough that I put it on my guns, at a cost of a few minutes of work, a $2 drill bit and about 40 cents worth of rivets. If I had an AK variant that did not have a saiga style BHO, I would add the notch too.

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No disrespect, Gunfun. I'm sure you are right, but I just don't see it. I have a tab similar to yours and have notched my safety lever. I love it! I don't understand the "dirt hole" comment. With the notch cut, the part of the gun that is exposed behind the safety lever is the side of the receiver wall (no hole). Therefore this entire debate seems moot. Could you set me straight?

 

I love my notched lever! It has the BHO function as well as letting the bolt drop as the safety finger-tab is pushed down. All I have to do is pick up my saiga, push the finger-tab of my safety to take off safe and charge the gun all at once, and then start pulling the trigger. I think a single push of a button with the trigger finger while in firing grip is the fastest way to put this gun into action.

 

Of course, the gun is charged and in the safe position while "in the field" for tactical use. The safety is used normally ( with the added benefit of the finger-tab). Like I said, no disrespect. I just fail to see a drawback to any of it.

 

 

 

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Being a genetically superior Left Hander who did not bow to cultural pressure to alter this God given super power things are a little different for me with regard to this topic. With this setup I can run my S-12 in a fairly efficient manner and have one less mechanism inside the receiver.

 

post-41803-0-21759100-1355234489.jpg

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No disrespect, Gunfun. I'm sure you are right, but I just don't see it. I have a tab similar to yours and have notched my safety lever. I love it! I don't understand the "dirt hole" comment. With the notch cut, the part of the gun that is exposed behind the safety lever is the side of the receiver wall (no hole). Therefore this entire debate seems moot. Could you set me straight?

 

I love my notched lever! It has the BHO function as well as letting the bolt drop as the safety finger-tab is pushed down. All I have to do is pick up my saiga, push the finger-tab of my safety to take off safe and charge the gun all at once, and then start pulling the trigger. I think a single push of a button with the trigger finger while in firing grip is the fastest way to put this gun into action.

 

Of course, the gun is charged and in the safe position while "in the field" for tactical use. The safety is used normally ( with the added benefit of the finger-tab). Like I said, no disrespect. I just fail to see a drawback to any of it.

 

I suppose disrespect would have been warranted here, as I was pushing the online sarcasm envelope. If I dish it, I should be able to handle it too. Squishy's picture above shows that when the safety is on, there is a hole in the receiver. Is it a deal breaker?- No. I would take a left side handle which makes a much bigger opening in the receiver because the advantage greatly outweighs the disadvantages. This obviously is a matter of preference, but on a saiga with a BHO, the notch is kind of a solution to a problem created by removal of the factory BHO. I don't like how open the AKs are when the safety is off either, but I think it matters more to have a receiver be sealed the way it will be carried or stored.

I tend to think of every gun how it would work under the seat of a work truck, or bouncing around in the deck storage bins of a commercial fishing boat. It wouldn't take very long for the receiver to be full of crap either way with the safety closed. That hole is big enough for a piece of gravel rather than just dust to work it's way in. In my car, probably a spent .22lr would be in there after a couple of weeks in the trunk.

 

I can see why you would like to drop the safety and rack the bolt with one motion. However, I find a couple of faults with this. 1, misfeeds are the most common failure of firearms. In an emergency, I want a round to already be safely in the chamber. 2, For drums, it is still most efficient to lock the bolt open for a change. This is much more convenient with the factory BHO.

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I suppose disrespect would have been warranted here, as I was pushing the online sarcasm envelope. If I dish it, I should be able to handle it too. Squishy's picture above shows that when the safety is on, there is a hole in the receiver. Is it a deal breaker?- No. I would take a left side handle which makes a much bigger opening in the receiver because the advantage greatly outweighs the disadvantages. This obviously is a matter of preference, but on a saiga with a BHO, the notch is kind of a solution to a problem created by removal of the factory BHO. I don't like how open the AKs are when the safety is off either, but I think it matters more to have a receiver be sealed the way it will be carried or stored.

I tend to think of every gun how it would work under the seat of a work truck, or bouncing around in the deck storage bins of a commercial fishing boat. It wouldn't take very long for the receiver to be full of crap either way with the safety closed. That hole is big enough for a piece of gravel rather than just dust to work it's way in. In my car, probably a spent .22lr would be in there after a couple of weeks in the trunk.

 

I can see why you would like to drop the safety and rack the bolt with one motion. However, I find a couple of faults with this. 1, misfeeds are the most common failure of firearms. In an emergency, I want a round to already be safely in the chamber. 2, For drums, it is still most efficient to lock the bolt open for a change. This is much more convenient with the factory BHO.

 

I stand corrected on the hole created by the safety notch, GunFun. I am not that worried about it, since the rest of the gun is so full of holes. I do disagree that the BHO is more convenient for holding the bolt for drum insertion. I contend it is less convenient to use the factory BHO simply because of less steps with the notched safety. As far as reliability goes, the notch must be done right to achieve this. I cut my notch as far back as the charger can reach, so as to emulate a proper "slingshot" charging release. Since this is so repeatable, I contend that "in theory" it is more reliable than release by human hand.

 

I keep my S12 at home with the bolt held open by the safety so that the rounds are not deformed with prolonged storage. That is how I think it is most effective for home defense. However, if I expected trouble the gun would be charged and on safe with a topped off mag.

 

To new guys reading this thread, GunFun knows a whole lot more about these things than I do. I just disagree with him on this point. Do what seems best to you. Thanks for the reply to my post, GunFun! Made me think.

 

I really don't want to hijack this thread any further so I'll shut up now...

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All valid points except one- I don't necessarily know more- I just post more.

 

I find the deformation thing to be over hyped. It is mostly a matter of what ammo you load, and my own testing has found that the types of loads I choose for HD are immune. Further, a round already in chamber is 100% immune to deformation based chambering issues. I used to keep the bolt locked open. After 8 months of deliberate abuse in very hot weather.

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The simplest fix is just to put a bend in the right leg of the hammer spring so that it pushes outward gently on the BHO lever. I'm really surprised that hasn't been said.what.gif Way to much discussion for such a simple thing.

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The spring leg is too short and there is still a possibily of the lever itself getting stuck inside.

 

The simplest fix is just to put a bend in the right leg of the hammer spring so that it pushes outward gently on the BHO lever. I'm really surprised that hasn't been said.what.gif Way to much discussion for such a simple thing.

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I've found a way around this. I use shells that have a roll crimp and I fill the cavity with surfboard epoxy (which sets hard and brittle). To help it along, I've also cut a + in the epoxy plug with a dremel cuttig disc. You'll only need to load the top 3 rounds with these and fill up the rest with regular shells.

 

 

I keep my S12 at home with the bolt held open by the safety so that the rounds are not deformed with prolonged storage. That is how I think it is most effective for home defense. However, if I expected trouble the gun would be charged and on safe with a topped off mag.

 

 

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The spring leg is too short and there is still a possibily of the lever itself getting stuck inside.

 

The simplest fix is just to put a bend in the right leg of the hammer spring so that it pushes outward gently on the BHO lever. I'm really surprised that hasn't been said.what.gif Way to much discussion for such a simple thing.

 

I don't know how you figure the spring leg is too short. This is the area to bend outward, then back in a little, so the hook sits in position on the rear of the trigger. I have had absolutely no issue with losing the BHO lever up inside the gun since doing this fix, in literally thousands of rounds. Good God.... this is an AK. You could fix it with a rock.

 

BentSpringLeg.jpg

Edited by Yeoldetool
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Sorry, misread your original post. I thought you were refering to the BHO spring.

 

The spring leg is too short and there is still a possibily of the lever itself getting stuck inside.

 

The simplest fix is just to put a bend in the right leg of the hammer spring so that it pushes outward gently on the BHO lever. I'm really surprised that hasn't been said.what.gif Way to much discussion for such a simple thing.

 

I don't know how you figure the spring leg is too short. This is the area to bend outward, then back in a little, so the hook sits in position on the rear of the trigger. I have had absolutely no issue with losing the BHO lever up inside the gun since doing this fix, in literally thousands of rounds. Good God.... this is an AK. You could fix it with a rock.

 

BentSpringLeg.jpg

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