dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Help Folks! I want to put my Ak-100 stock on my saiga. That will in effect put the detent hole right in the middle of the EAA import markings. Effectively marring that marking. Now I've heard both. Yes. just remark exact importer info. No. Cannot mess with original Importer info. I am NOT messing with serial numbers at all. I just don't want to buy a B-West Saiga for $500.00 is all. The import marks are on the low right front by front trunnion. That would make it easier. But I have only seen (2) of those at $500.00 a pop! Fugg That! I want my AK-104 clean. I have already spent over $500.00 on all the correct parts( not including saiga rifle!), and I want to do it right the first time. SBR paperwork is in( Yeah Texas!)....looking good there. I want to weld up all the holes. Cyrillic mark this bad boy, and Re-coat the whole she-bang. IMPORT MARKINGS ANYONE? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 From what Ive heard, and what Ive read, the ATF says no. My opinion would be to obliterate it. Restamp it. Be done with it. Who is going to care anyway? I think that regs like 922r and not moving ID markings are ment more for manufacturers anyway, even though it applies to us little guys too. If your gonna lose sleep over it, then dont do it. But whos gonna know or care? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I could be wrong but last time this came up I thought the general consensus was as long as you don't touch the serial number you can do anything you want with the rest. The serial number is tracable to the importer so if anyone ever cared they would find the importer when they looked it up. At least that's what I thought was said. Check with RDS Writer, seems like that was him that found that info somewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Found it. Hope this helps. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=4682&hl= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtoddellis 2 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I remember the post the other day of the Krebs .308. The only marking on the reciever was the Krebs marking. The serial #'s ouf course are on the trunion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Credit where credit is due that was TapperMan who found that out. Thanks for the link Ace. Hey DTI here's an s-12 that was cleaned up by Krebs. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...t=0entry65776 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) Tapperman generated my interest enough to contact the Tech Branch. Sterling Nixon specifically stated that for non-NFA firearms, ALL markings can be removed and remarked as you wish - except the serial number. If a serial number is removed through non-deliberate actions, the proper way to re-mark a firearm is to contact your local ATF Field Office and they will assign an offical ATF serial number which will be re-stamped or engraved into the affected weapon. FYI folks - one other interesting note, If the firearm has a serial number on the trunion (rather than the sheetmetal receiver), the trunion cannot be replaced. Edited October 28, 2005 by RDSWriter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted October 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 ugh.............. I'm in SBR process with a certain Receiver marked by EAA..........ugh It's technically NFA then.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 (edited) Dodge: If you are filing a Form 1 and converting to a SBR (or someone on your behalf) then the only markings required are the new ones. In other words, because it is being re-manufactured... all of the original markings are SH#T. You (or the C2 doing the conversion) are the manufacturer, place of manufacturer and serial number (if you so desire). Most people use the original serial number because they do not have to re-engrave a new serial number. BUT, there is no federal law or ruling that absolutely requires the original serial number to be used. In other words, you can assign a new serial number if you want. So in short, if it ain't already a registered SBR with markings (which you would be removing), then you don't have to keep the markings intact - because you are currently manufacturing and registering an NEW firearm. You just have to mark the manufacturer, city, state and serial number - which you control on the Form 1. If you are interested in removing the EAA marks... well they are SH#T. Why? Bcause they are not the manufacturer and have absolutely no legal impact on the SBR. Only the NFA markings associated with the SBR are restrictricted. All previous markings can be removed because they no longer are applicable to the NFA item. NOTE: If you are modifying a previously registered NFA item, you CANNOT modify the NFA manufacturer, NFA city, NFA state and NFA serial number. ALL other markings can be removed other than these NFA markings. INTERESTING LEGAL NOTE: If you are touched in the head or just have more money than you know what to do with, you can remove an SBR from the NFA registry by submitting an application to the ATF to have a firearm removed from the NFA (and putting a 16 inch or more barrel on the rifle.). At that point, you can remove the manufacturer markings and place of manufacture. Then you can pay another $200 to register the rifle as an SBR NFA firearm and remark it to your likings.... including the serial number if you re-assign one on the Form 1. I don't know of anyone to ever do this.... but it is an option if someone REALLY wanted to remove the NFA markings and re-mark. Edited October 29, 2005 by RDSWriter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted October 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Okay. Thanks. I have an EAA Saiga 20" that I was going to use for my AK-104 SBR build form Chris Butler AK-USA. I don't want to use this one though. I wanted to use a B-WEST Saiga so that the Import Marking issue is moot. But damn! Those B-wests are rarer than EAA's! Thanks though RDSWriter. I'm still in that annoying space in weapon obsession where you are stuck between NFA wannabe status, and 16" + limbo......lol (Do I build it, and just put an extended "Krinkov-Brake" on? While waiting for my pile of papers, and personal check to run it's course at BATFE? Or sit on a pile of parts before I ask Chris Butler to create art)? ugh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Dodge: You've got two options: (1) Remove all markings right now except for the serial number. Then have Chris re-stamp the NFA markings during conversion. (2) Send the parts and S20 to Chris and have him do everything at one time. He can weld up any of the original markings you want. Then re-stamp the NFA markings. NOTE: I think you may find yourself in a catch 22 if a serial number is on the trunion of the S20 and you need to replace this trunion to convert to a rifle caliber. Why? Because when you start your SBR conversion, the S20 is a legal Title 2 firearm prior to converting. If you remove the trunion then you have legally just defaced a non-NFA firearm receiver by removing the serial number. Remember, at this point you could legally, technically still use a different receiver because the NFA SBR doesn't exist yet - it's only on paper. So, by removing the serial number from the S20 you committed a a felony before you get started.... even if you are going to replace the trunion with a rifle trunion that has the same serial number. So, how do you avoid this issue. You FIRST need to mark the S20 receiver with the NFA identification markings - the manufacturer, city, state and serial number on the sheetmetal receiver FIRST, FIRST. Now that the receiver is marked, the receiver IS THE SBR NFA firearm and subsequently the serial number on the receiver is the legal one. Now you can remove the trunion because (1) the firearm is no longer a Title 2 fiream (it is now a Title 1 NFA firearm), and (2) the serial number on the S20 trunion is not the NFA serial number. Since the trunion no longer contains any legal NFA identifcation marks, you can now replace the trunion with one for the AK104. One final note: VERIFY my recommendation with a C2. I'm pretty damn sure it's right, but I have been wrong in the past about some stuff. Chris should be able to help you with the exact steps to avoid any technical violations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Dodge: You've got two options: (1) Remove all markings right now except for the serial number. Then have Chris re-stamp the NFA markings during conversion. (2) Send the parts and S20 to Chris and have him do everything at one time. He can weld up any of the original markings you want. Then re-stamp the NFA markings. NOTE: I think you may find yourself in a catch 22 if a serial number is on the trunion of the S20 and you need to replace this trunion to convert to a rifle caliber. Why? Because when you start your SBR conversion, the S20 is a legal Title 2 firearm prior to converting. If you remove the trunion then you have legally just defaced a non-NFA firearm receiver by removing the serial number. Remember, at this point you could legally, technically still use a different receiver because the NFA SBR doesn't exist yet - it's only on paper. So, by removing the serial number from the S20 you committed a a felony before you get started.... even if you are going to replace the trunion with a rifle trunion that has the same serial number. So, how do you avoid this issue. You FIRST need to mark the S20 receiver with the NFA identification markings - the manufacturer, city, state and serial number on the sheetmetal receiver FIRST, FIRST. Now that the receiver is marked, the receiver IS THE SBR NFA firearm and subsequently the serial number on the receiver is the legal one. Now you can remove the trunion because (1) the firearm is no longer a Title 2 fiream (it is now a Title 1 NFA firearm), and (2) the serial number on the S20 trunion is not the NFA serial number. Since the trunion no longer contains any legal NFA identifcation marks, you can now replace the trunion with one for the AK104. One final note: VERIFY my recommendation with a C2. I'm pretty damn sure it's right, but I have been wrong in the past about some stuff. Chris should be able to help you with the exact steps to avoid any technical violations. oh shit.....um...RDS? I typed in 20" meaning 7.62x39 w/ 20" barrel........... not S-20 Shotgun in 20 gauge...... sorry man......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 No need to apologize Dodge... I should have read the thread more carefully. With the rifle, you should be good to go with the SBR project. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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