Does my Saiga work too well?

[z-mashin 1]

I know my description on cover movement is a little vague. It just shifts a little to left(right at the front trunnion). Definitely not affecting functionality at all. I guess i'd squirm around a bit also If I was hangin on to something like that with all that movement under my feet haha. I just came home from testing gun out after shortening her down. I shot some winchester universal and had FTE on setting 1 and 2 every shot. NICE. Federal high velocity 7/8oz.low base functioned flawless on#2 setting(and for most part on #1). The only trouble I had with high velocty federal game loads came from a couple that had nickle plated low bases(brass ones functioned awesome). These were some old shells I had from years ago(10+). So there must be differences between lots and years. I also shot some winchester super speed low base game loads (old as well)no FTE on settting 2. NOW for the best news- Winchester 00 buck high base felt just right in the recoil dept. and no real evidence of excessive trunnion contact. I was all smiles. Thank you lots for all of your input. I am going to continue with a conversion. I am so stoked!!!!My dad would be as well.

[gunfun 3,931]

Federal makes a bunch of very similar products in the similar to identical look. The cheapest loads can vary in powder from lot to lot as well. However, I think that most likely you have older ones that are a lighter loading. I've never found that brass vs. silver colored matters . *

 

Mostly, keep thinking about the numbers. Your gun cares about 2 numbers: Pressure, and the duration of the pressure impulse. Obviously you can't really get at those numbers, but they have a strong correlation to another pair of numbers on pretty much every box of ammo.

 

You care about Weight of shot (not type 1 oz of slug, 1 oz of birdshot, 1 oz of buck**) and Velocity. Everytthing else, such as whetyer it is high bras or low, or whether it is zombie edition is irrelevant. Some words are helpful for alerting your attention: "low reciol" "managed recoil" "Tactical" "LE/ law enforcenent" all = pathetic low velocity or reduced load of shot.

 

Dram equivalency tables are very helpful for finding what should run in your gun. 3 dram eq(1 1/8 oz @ 1200 FPS) or more should work. Yes, the dram equivalency system is conceptually flawed, but it is good enough to tell you what will run. Also, some packages list dram eq rather than velocity. (especially when the velocity is pathetic)

 

*some of the silver ones are "Top Gun" Top Gun is supposed to be tuned to be a little softer shooting than the equivalent spec "game" versions of the same cheap federal loads. Most of the time the difference is not perceptible, but if your gun barely runs 3 dram Federal game, it may sometimes fail to eject some of the Top gun 3 dram.

 

** a couple reloaders might point out that with identical components, switching from a slug or buck load to birdshot typically has a moderate gain in pressure due to the shot column spreading and making a tighter seal. However, this hasn't seemed to be enough of a difference to affect what would cycle. My hypothesis, is that while the peak pressure may be higher or lower, the duration of pressure impulse probably balances it out.

[z-mashin 1]

Gun Fun, When you mention pressure impulse duration are you referencing how long gas cycle lasts(correlated to barrel length)? I ask this because before I shortened barrel pretty much everything cycled(I didnt try winchester universal for original test firings, I found some today loose in an old shooting pouch) on #1 and now I can get FTE on some of the obvious lighter stuff. Also percieved recoil is alot better even with magnum loads. Most of the game loads I have laying around now are between 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 dram federal and estate brand. So I should be good to go on #2 setting for shooting up some of this stuff. I will try some Wally World federal also. I definitely feel much better shooting her(not worrying as much).

[gunfun 3,931]

Yep. That's what I meant.

 

That is (or was) a common experience. You will need to verify and address your reliability just like any other S12. The long barrel wasn't giving you any meaningful amount of greater velocity, but it did give a longer pressure time to the gas system before venting all that pressure to the air. Now that you have chopped it, you have adjusted the bottom end of your cycling range.

 

 

I just did this post explaining how to identify what ammo should run in a healthy saiga. Alternatively if your S12 is unhealthy, you can use the data to identify what ammo to buy that should work until you get her tuned up.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/86184-is-this-low-brass/?p=873932

[Capt Nemo 882]

GunFun is absolutely right on the gas pulse druation. On the AR side, it's why the XM177 had a long flash hider on it's 11.5" barrel. The flash hider had a pair of expansion chambers to provide enough gas/backpressure to reliably cycle the action. You see the same on the 5.45 Krinkov. The ATF likes calling these things silencers, although they don't do much for the blast. I also kept this in mind when I designed my pistol AR with a 6" barrel. The brake/silencer for it was a monster but included an expansion chamber to ensure proper cycling. Most AR's need about 4" of barrel past the port to get enough gas to cycle properly.

[z-mashin 1]

Alright Gunfun and Capt. Nemo, thanks for info. Gunfun- ammo write up is a good job, great guideline. Gunfun I will be converting mine sometime next week when parts show up. I have a question about the hammer. Have you ever seen one of the factory hammers wearing funny like mine is. If you look at the pics. above you will notice that the hammer face is being peened off to one side of hammer. Is this normal? How far does BC travel before actually striking hammer after firing normally(not sure if this matters-maybe spring tension)? I really want things working properly when I fit new FCG. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited March 15, 2013 by z-mashin