Veper 12: Lemon or POS weapon

[Muffman 54]

Finally, tried without CSS muzzle brake and no hick ups. Kinda strange , everybody says no problems with a brake on shooting target loads. Ohh well, will use brake for slugs and buck shots.

Might be brake specific?...

[solrus 2]

I do not know, may be CSS might answer. I kinds hesitant to try second vepr , since it will be no more NIB. I hope more guys would right about the experience with the brake. I'm dissapointed a lot. Not cheap and waste in my case.

[DresNightfire 39]

I truly feel there should not be anything rubbing on the top of the carrier, but I put the original shorter Saiga 12 recoil spring in there and moved my optic behind the ejection port and will report back when I test her again. The Military Arms youtube channel on the VEPR 12 review talks about this in their description as well.

 

Here you go solrus:

 

[solrus 2]

This issue was pointed out to me by match 1 arsenal guy today, he told me if after brake in period (around 500 shells) , still FTE with CSS brake , then try to file down this first rivet.

[solrus 2]

Ok guys , finally got time to shoot vepr 12 with and without brake. As I told previously , I placed brake right away and had FTE every round. Spoke to a seller Match 1 Arsenal and the guy told me that they tested no FTEs but they broke in gun with 500 rnds, I did not want to waste 500 rnds, it's expensive also.

 

So I took of brake and shot 2 boxes (50 rnds) , occasional FTEs, but later towards 2nd box my trigger began stuck in semi return postion, you will hear "click " sound when I push it back with index finger on video with CSS brake.

 

Here is the link: 1. With out brake (no problems, but after I stopped filming and shot second box trigger gave me a puzzle) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0phbg6pXSg

2. With CSS brake , trigger just fail to return to ready position. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfib5BnMrnM

 

Kinda disappointing, although it serial production, not custom, but nevertheless looks like Molot factory was rushing to make them with poor quality check and push to USA market. Back in Russia Chinese goods are so so quality compare to USA, but my Vepr is even worse then with a stamp "Made in China".

[MAKAK47 21]

what type of ammo were you using? Just watched the video

Did you change out the trigger or do anything to it? Did you file down your safety to make it easier to select? That is definitely a weird ass problem that you have to change the safety back down to fire whe you shoot it. I'm going to take mine apart tomorrow and try and figure out where yours would be having that issue. How the muzzle brake would factor into that is waaaay beyond me.

Edited February 11, 2013 by MAKAK47

[vinni83 148]

Hello guys.

I look at the Saiga owners in all continents of the problems are similar.

Saiga 12 really is not as reliable as a Kalashnikov rifle. First of all, because of the shape cartridge.

 

There are the standard errors of beginners.

 

1 Do not use sporting cartriges. New Saiga 030/Vepr 12 likes Magnum.
Because it does not have the gas regulator.

 

2 Magazine Saiga have are too powerful spring.

 

3 Do not install sight on the bolt.

 

4 Often in the factory dirty holes for gases in the barrel. The holes should be clean.

 

5 Do not install the charging handle Tromix SGP79 and recoil buffer.
Do not interfere with automation work.

 

I apologize for my English. I'm learning language.

[vinni83 148]

 

I truly feel there should not be anything rubbing on the top of the carrier, but I put the original shorter Saiga 12 recoil spring in there and moved my optic behind the ejection port and will report back when I test her again. The Military Arms youtube channel on the VEPR 12 review talks about this in their description as well.

 

Here you go solrus:

 

 

This is normal for Vepr.
In no case do not try to grind off the first screw.

Otherwise you'll have to change the whole lid.

[SGM 217]

As asked above, did you install a different trigger?

 

I watched both videos and perhaps those were not good examples of FTE's because other than you engaging the safety on the first shot in the second video the shotgun seemed to function on all shots fired.

[solrus 2]

what type of ammo were you using? Just watched the video

 

Did you change out the trigger or do anything to it? Did you file down your safety to make it easier to select? That is definitely a weird ass problem that you have to change the safety back down to fire whe you shoot it. I'm going to take mine apart tomorrow and try and figure out where yours would be having that issue. How the muzzle brake would factor into that is waaaay beyond me.

Nothing done to trigger. Out of two Vepr 12 I bought , I selected the one with very smooth safety knob, no filing. It just disappointing that the advertising was so much exaggerated.

[solrus 2]

As asked above, did you install a different trigger?

 

I watched both videos and perhaps those were not good examples of FTE's because other than you engaging the safety on the first shot in the second video the shotgun seemed to function on all shots fired.

Nothing to trigger, I had FTEs initially , after I shot a box without a brake and then put back brake FTE's dissapeared. But I shot only 10 shots on video each with and without. For more power of the study I need larger number of trials.

My plan to dissemble , clean and retry again, I hope everything will resolve (trigger malfunction, FTEs.

[DresNightfire 39]

I truly feel there should not be anything rubbing on the top of the carrier, but I put the original shorter Saiga 12 recoil spring in there and moved my optic behind the ejection port and will report back when I test her again. The Military Arms youtube channel on the VEPR 12 review talks about this in their description as well.

 

Here you go solrus:

 

 

 

 

This is normal for Vepr.

In no case do not try to grind off the first screw.

 

Otherwise you'll have to change the whole lid.

 

Why is this normal for the VEPR but not the SAIGA?

[vinni83 148]

Why is this normal for the VEPR but not the SAIGA?

 

 

This normal for VEPR 12 & SAIGA 12K030. In ordinary Saiga 12 no these rivets

[DresNightfire 39]

As asked above, did you install a different trigger?

 

I watched both videos and perhaps those were not good examples of FTE's because other than you engaging the safety on the first shot in the second video the shotgun seemed to function on all shots fired.

Nothing to trigger, I had FTEs initially , after I shot a box without a brake and then put back brake FTE's dissapeared. But I shot only 10 shots on video each with and without. For more power of the study I need larger number of trials.

My plan to dissemble , clean and retry again, I hope everything will resolve (trigger malfunction, FTEs.

Will the JTE performance guide rod fix this issue and allow us to shave down that front rivet?

[solrus 2]

As asked above, did you install a different trigger?

 

I watched both videos and perhaps those were not good examples of FTE's because other than you engaging the safety on the first shot in the second video the shotgun seemed to function on all shots fired.

 

As I stated earlier : "Nothing to trigger, I had FTEs initially , after I shot a box without a brake and then put back brake FTE's dissapeared. But I shot only 10 shots on video each with and without. For more power of the study I need larger number of trials.

My plan to dissemble , clean and retry again, I hope everything will resolve (trigger malfunction, FTEs. "

 

So now I clean it and this is my third trip and these videos tell you what I had with my first out of box Vepr 12

 

1. With a brake different type/brand of ammo

- A - http://youtu.be/HJIsmAu3KjU

- B- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkxSJw-gX0

 

2. Without brake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nl0DE77YNA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yr2coCO1AA

 

 

3. Without brake with buckshot low recoil shots

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqwJ57NmbDI

[Muffman 54]

Both shells under 1200 FPS.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Muffman

[solrus 2]

Both shells under 1200 FPS.

Wrong. Win X are 1255 fps and despite as advertised "no problems" with target ammo. problems and problems.

Edited February 25, 2013 by solrus

[ec4321 113]

The point is, you should do the test with a heftier load to see if that solves it and then try to determine where the line is.

 

Many folks have reported issues with sub ~1290 loads.

 

Or you can just keep doing what you're doing.

[Muffman 54]

Both shells under 1200 FPS.

Wrong. Win X are 1255 fps and despite as advertised "no problems" with target ammo. problems and problems.

I did not realize there was a third kind of ammo. I just saw the breast cancer Federals and a Fiocchi box. It might help to list them a little better as most will probably skim the videos, like I did. There is like five of them, hard to tell on some which ammo you are running, and the wind hurts my ear balls. = p

Edited February 25, 2013 by Muffman

[solrus 2]

The point is, you should do the test with a heftier load to see if that solves it and then try to determine where the line is.

 

Many folks have reported issues with sub ~1290 loads.

 

Or you can just keep doing what you're doing.

Well my point is that its advertised that it cycles light loads but it is not true, you can speculate\мудрить and tell me that go up on speed should solve it , but buckshot should cycle since it's heavier . It should work as a clock and cycle any ammo or it should not be called such.

[MAKAK47 21]

Buckshot under 1290fps probably won't cycle well because its still going under 1290fps, I've only had trouble with loads lighter than 1290fps, 1290fps or faster works great in my VEPR

If you can, get some Rio 1330fps target loads, they will cycle NO problem

[ec4321 113]

Give the higher FPS loads a try and work you way back see where it starts to fail. Point being, it's important to know if any amount of power will make it cycle reliably.

 

I agree it should cycle lighter loads as well, but the fact is there are alot of variances in this stuff coming from Russia. What is causing yours I can't say, but it's important to know if the thing will cycle anything.

[solrus 2]

Give the higher FPS loads a try and work you way back see where it starts to fail. Point being, it's important to know if any amount of power will make it cycle reliably.

 

I agree it should cycle lighter loads as well, but the fact is there are alot of variances in this stuff coming from Russia. What is causing yours I can't say, but it's important to know if the thing will cycle anything.

Will give a trial to target load higher 1250 fps.

[solrus 2]

Guys , somebody posted on my youtube video, this "Needs lighter spring - either original Saiga 12 recoil spring or CSS performance recoil spring"

 

Any opinions????????

[cvhanh20 1,052]

1) Prepare your flame suit, the posse around here will come after you for saying anything negative about Veprs, Saigas or any vendor that supplies the industry.

 

2) Register your warranty information here: https://www.wolf-arm..../registration/

 

3) Contact the importer TGI / WOLF Arms and ask for Steve for warranty @ 865-977-9707.

 

 

Also, check your dust cover rail to ensure it is straight and level as well as your front and rear sights to ensure they are not canted or crooked. If you're sending it to TGI for repair, might as well report any and all issues and have it all addressed at once. Saves everyone money.

I say we flame this guy for saying we flame people around here! lol Who's got the fuel can?

[MAKAK47 21]

Guys , somebody posted on my youtube video, this "Needs lighter spring - either original Saiga 12 recoil spring or CSS performance recoil spring"

 

Any opinions????????

 

Try the higher loads first, again everything I've been hearing is that this system was designed for game/combat loads not light target loads, if you are having trouble with the higher loads then you have a much bigger issue, if you don't then you're experiencing the same success rate I am, you can add the saiga 12 springs later to make the lighter stuff cycle

 

again, check to make sure the heavier stuff cycles, if it does you are good, then I would say add the lighter springs to cycle the cheaper stuff

[VEPR12 11]

I shot my V-12 straight out of the box, I opened the cover, popped out the bolt and checked for obstructions, and slapped it back together. It wasn't properly cleaned and lubed, just the way it shipped. It ate high brass stuff just find but never ejected the weak low base stuff correctly. If I stepped up to hunting strength shells it worked better with only the occasional FTE. Slugs and 00 were flawless. I tried 6 different flavors of low base stuff and they all yielded the same result...FTE.

 

I mounted my new RTD and sighted it in with slugs and found it reasonably accurate, shots touching at 25 yards, 2" group at 50.

 

I took it home and cleaned it thoroughly. Next range trip I will be bringing the reduced power reduced power recoil spring from CSS. I will try a few shots with the stock spring and then swap in the reduced power spring if required.

 

I love this gun but I'm a little disappointed that mine won't cycle the low base stuff right out fo the box.

Edited February 26, 2013 by VEPR12

[ec4321 113]

1) Prepare your flame suit, the posse around here will come after you for saying anything negative about Veprs, Saigas or any vendor that supplies the industry.

 

2) Register your warranty information here: https://www.wolf-arm..../registration/

 

3) Contact the importer TGI / WOLF Arms and ask for Steve for warranty @ 865-977-9707.

 

 

Also, check your dust cover rail to ensure it is straight and level as well as your front and rear sights to ensure they are not canted or crooked. If you're sending it to TGI for repair, might as well report any and all issues and have it all addressed at once. Saves everyone money.

I say we flame this guy for saying we flame people around here! lol Who's got the fuel can?

 

 

I am right here!

 

The flaming of me has already been done!

 

Over done, IMO, but hey I am a sport I am ready for more.

[inzami 36]

I'm shooting WalMart Federal 1200 FPS out of the box. Only had FTEs when I placed red dot above the ejection port, once I moved it back no FTEs. This has been covered extensively with S12 so sounds like you need to tune it to the ammo per http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/80572-fte-with-bulk-low-brass-fixed/?p=805775

 

Also have you tried different ammo brand? From low brass I only shot Federal.

[physicsnerd 139]

I'm shooting WalMart Federal 1200 FPS out of the box. Only had FTEs when I placed red dot above the ejection port, once I moved it back no FTEs. This has been covered extensively with S12 so sounds like you need to tune it to the ammo per http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/80572-fte-with-bulk-low-brass-fixed/?p=805775

 

Also have you tried different ammo brand? From low brass I only shot Federal.

 

I believe the comments regarding variability is correct. Mine also runs the WalMart Federal 1200 FPS bulk pack stuff even from a SGM 12 rounder.