Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Are you saying that hip-firing this weapon or the Saiga 12 is absolutely frowned upon or will just hip-firing the weapon decrease the reliability of cycling? Have you tried it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shipwreck 2 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Given the FTE issues some are having with the stock weapon, will I be asking for it with a muzzle break and a recoil reducing stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I have the CSS break on mine, works like it did out of the box, like a champ. Do not know about the recoil reducing stocks, have never used them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Are you saying that hip-firing this weapon or the Saiga 12 is absolutely frowned upon or will just hip-firing the weapon decrease the reliability of cycling? Have you tried it? Hip firing CAN rob the weapon of power used to cycle the operation. Not that it WILL do so every time. Because of the original wooden stock's hard edges, I have test fired it a number of times where I attempt to let my arms absorb all the recoil alone from the pistol grip and the fore grip, so, technically, yes Dad. And yes, sometime's it cycled and sometimes it did not (most of the time it did cycle well), so what evlblk and Cap'n Hero stated holds true in this scenario. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tw4 12 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 sell it to me...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Excellent example of proper shooting technique at 1:02. My stance is slightly different, but the physics of it are the same. We are not all the same and there will be some variation in what might feel "natural" from one shooter to the next. As long as the very basic principles are applied, the results should be similar. Very well done and those few seconds of footage alone are a great contribution. Thanks, its amazing what a difference a proper stance makes, but im actually the other guy in the video lol.. Did you notice the rear sight @1:02? You had the right idea too, but I couldn't see it that well because the camera was close. There are some experienced shooters out there that still don't get it though. If I see someone posture up, throw that chicken wing out there, and rest their weight on their rear heel, I know before the first shot that the weapon is about to own them. There is one gent who posts some short video now and again that does it. I always know it will be good for a laugh, if nothing else. Whatever, looks like he really enjoys firing the weapon. I didn't notice the sight until reviewing the vid again. I have to admit that I am not a fan of the VEPR rear sight. I am eliminating the rear sight on one of mine for other reasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
obiwanbonjovi 337 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Given the FTE issues some are having with the stock weapon, will I be asking for it with a muzzle break and a recoil reducing stock? a recoil reducing stock can make the shotgun less reliable as it increases the rearward motion of the shotgun under recoil, same effect as hip shooting. A muzzle brake will make it more reliable as it lessens the rearward motion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RottenJohnny 0 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 I've had the exact same issue with my vepr-12, top cover comes unlocked regardless of the ammo type. The hotter the load, the more often it occurs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 So has the OP tried to follow up on warranty work or tried to do any fixes yet? Curious to know if it has worked any better yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joetira 2 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 So has the OP tried to follow up on warranty work or tried to do any fixes yet? Curious to know if it has worked any better yet? I called atlantic and they told me the problem may be my eotech mounted all the way forward on the top rail. Sounds ridicuolous to me. I'm going to try shooting it again after christmas with the eotech all the way to the rear and then without the sight on at all. I will have to call tgi for warranty work which sucks because now i'm paying out of pocket for their mistake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 sucks because now i'm paying out of pocket for their mistake. how so? They should pay the shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joetira 2 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 1) Prepare your flame suit, the posse around here will come after you for saying anything negative about Veprs, Saigas or any vendor that supplies the industry. 2) Register your warranty information here: https://www.wolf-arm..../registration/ 3) Contact the importer TGI / WOLF Arms and ask for Steve for warranty @ 865-977-9707. Also, check your dust cover rail to ensure it is straight and level as well as your front and rear sights to ensure they are not canted or crooked. If you're sending it to TGI for repair, might as well report any and all issues and have it all addressed at once. Saves everyone money. No one has been flamed for asking legitimate questions on how to fix problem with their firearms. Went shooting today to break in my Veper 12. I hesitate to call this "thing" a firearm. When shooting birdshot, FTE almost every round. I understand the low pressures these rounds create, doesn't allow the weapon to cycle properly. I didn't mind much, was expecting it, but was kind of hopefull of this "awesome" weapon everyone was talking about to work well. Now to test out some 2 3/4 00 buckshot. FTE about 6/100 rounds I shot. Different brands fire better than others, I know. I was breaking it in, so I let it slide, maybe this weapon just needs to be shot a bit before it works better I thought. Slug time: When firing slugs, the cover would fly open about 7/10 times. WTF, this looks dangerous, so I dissassembled the weapon and put it back together to make sure it was assembled correctly. It was, so don't tell me thats why the Veper 12 was doing this. I decided not to fire any more slugs because I didn't want this russian piece of shit blowing up in my face so I bought 3 00 buck. Same thing would happen, the cover would fly open, but less often than with slugs. The higher power of these rounds obvioulsy have something to do with this exotic malfunction. Bought some more 2 3/4 00 buck, because so far, these are the only rounds that would work properly with this weapon. Same thing happens after firing 5 rounds, cover flys open. I put down my gun pack up my shit and leave. $1000 gun and completely worthless. Should I contact Atlantic Firearms and get a new one because I assume this is a lemon of a weapon? Or are there parts I could buy that would prevent this. If I get these parts would this void any type of warrenty? A few questions... have you taken apart the gas tube and checked inside to make sure there are proper gas ports? Have you changed out the stock? The stock on mine was less then desirable making the weapon uncomfortable to shoot. loose grips or holds on some of them have proven to cause FTE issues. have you ensured the dust cover has the tab rear to prevent it from popping open? If it does there is obviously a problem and im sure some one will be around with suggestions on how to fix that or you could call in the issue. I have heard of this issue around before but dont recall the reason or fix. Im sure some one does. As with the saiga 12s the VEPRs also have their issues. Some do not, some are minor, some need warranty work. i havn't taken apart the gas tube, where would I find these gas ports exactly? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantic Firearms.com 170 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yes we have had 2 issues thus far with the EO Tech mounted all the way forward on the rail causing issues and one of the guns was our demo gun so we saw it first hand. Second Wolf / TGI will pay your return shipping for the gun if they do not we will. The secenario was offered to you as a possible issue to check out when we spoke via the phone since we had it happen here . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 If you pull the gas tube and remove the puck you should be able to shine a light into the gas block and see the ports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I called atlantic and they told me the problem may be my eotech mounted all the way forward on the top rail. Sounds ridicuolous to me. I'm going to try shooting it again after christmas with the eotech all the way to the rear and then without the sight on at all. I will have to call tgi for warranty work which sucks because now i'm paying out of pocket for their mistake. Doesn't sound ridiculous at all to me. I've seen Eotechs mounted too far forward get beat to death on TWS rails for AK's. The only broke rail we've seen had an optic mounted all the way up front which even at the time I said it was probably the reason for the crack. Atlantic says they've seen it twice now. And most importantly, Vepr 12's are not new, just new to the US. PapaZorro has already said they've figured out in Russia to not mount optics up too far forward. The only other thing I can see it being is the front rail rivet. I still haven't had a chance to take mine shooting yet but can already see wear on my front rivet from hand cycling. Hope mine is gtg. Keep us updated though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joetira 2 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Alright guys, I took a couple weapons to the range a few days ago including the Veper 12 and I think Atlanticfirearms is right about the eotech being mounted to far foward. I took the sight off this last time I shot and the weapon performed greater than I expected. The Veper 12 also had a CSS clone of the GK-01 I had added since the last time I shot and was using a 12rd mag to include my 5rder. I shot about 200 rounds ranging from 7 1/2, 00 2 3/4" and 3" to high velocity slugs. I expected the federal 7 1/2 shot to jam up a bit at least but I didn't have a single FTE or mulfunction of any sort all day. With the muzzle brake added, this thing was kicking about as hard as my .308, less IMO. Awesome for follow up shots. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightmareArmory 6 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Presto Z, Perfect response to joetira's post and great job on the video. My experience has been the same regardless of brand or type of loads... PURE JOY! I wasn't very selective on ammo choice as I have a Wally World within walking distance and I used to purchase my ammo there, before the proverbial "Shit hit the fan!" The only thing that I found to cause a jamb of any type was having the optics mounted too far forward as shown here about 15:50 into this high quality "Review" video regarding the VEPR 12. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 ^ This. I hoped more people would see this video and put the optic placement for a Vepr 12 debate to rest. Thanks for posting the video. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solrus 2 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Went shooting today to break in my Veper 12. I hesitate to call this "thing" a firearm. When shooting birdshot, FTE almost every round. I understand the low pressures these rounds create, doesn't allow the weapon to cycle properly. I didn't mind much, was expecting it, but was kind of hopefull of this "awesome" weapon everyone was talking about to work well. Now to test out some 2 3/4 00 buckshot. FTE about 6/100 rounds I shot. Different brands fire better than others, I know. I was breaking it in, so I let it slide, maybe this weapon just needs to be shot a bit before it works better I thought. Slug time: When firing slugs, the cover would fly open about 7/10 times. WTF, this looks dangerous, so I dissassembled the weapon and put it back together to make sure it was assembled correctly. It was, so don't tell me thats why the Veper 12 was doing this. I decided not to fire any more slugs because I didn't want this russian piece of shit blowing up in my face so I bought 3 00 buck. Same thing would happen, the cover would fly open, but less often than with slugs. The higher power of these rounds obvioulsy have something to do with this exotic malfunction. Bought some more 2 3/4 00 buck, because so far, these are the only rounds that would work properly with this weapon. Same thing happens after firing 5 rounds, cover flys open. I put down my gun pack up my shit and leave. $1000 gun and completely worthless. Should I contact Atlantic Firearms and get a new one because I assume this is a lemon of a weapon? Or are there parts I could buy that would prevent this. If I get these parts would this void any type of warrenty? Same shit with mine, just got it last Friday, I mounted CSS brake right away , hoping and relying on what people say it does not cause any FTE, but I had FTE with 7 1/2 and 8 target loads every other time. Please help!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Sorry to hear you are having problems = [ When testing a new firearm you should limit variables as much as possible. If you are looking for help you should post all variables. Muzzle device used, mags used, shells used with FPS, location of RDS if one was used... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solrus 2 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Vepr 12 Muzzle brake CSS US version (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1577/MOLOT-GK-dsh-01-VEPR-SAIGA/Detail) Factory Molot mag 5 rds, I used two that came with a gun Shells - Winchester 2 3/4 1255 velocity 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2 shot Federal 2 3/4 1145 velocity 1 1/8 oz 8 shot buck 2 3/4 " 00 wolf, rem 3" 4 bk were fine. No RDS was used Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAKAK47 21 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) I've been hearing a lot about FTE with anything below 1250 fps My Saiga 12 HATED Winchester target loads but cycled Fiochi and Federal like a normal AK cycles ammo, look for something with a higher FPS I hope to be heading to the range this next weekend with loads that range from 1295-1330 fps, will let you know how that works out Edited January 28, 2013 by MAKAK47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solrus 2 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I will take off CSS brake tom am and try without it. My head spinning just thinking about going through warranty repair, in old days back in Russia it was impossible thing , never had this done here in USA, not sure about customer service quality. The bad thing I got two Vepr 12, and do not want to try to shoot another since hoping for some exchange with a local guy, but if another has same problem , would feel very bad for false promotion of how good it cycles target shots, what all reviews on youtube spread around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 The Federal FTE makes sense. My Vepr 12 seems to not like under 1200 FPS. Not sure on the Winchester however. Maybe try without the brake and not any differences? Also stick to only using one magazine at first. Only switch to the other mag once you have had a few failures. This could help find out if a mag was a little off... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solrus 2 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 My Vepr 12 has 2 mags 5 rds in the box is it usual? All descriptions say one factory mag. I've got two, good and weird. and yes , it was a sealed plastic bag with two mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hdskumm 39 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 The mag fairies were kind to you sir. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solrus 2 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Finally, tried without CSS muzzle brake and no hick ups. Kinda strange , everybody says no problems with a brake on shooting target loads. Ohh well, will use brake for slugs and buck shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Finally, tried without CSS muzzle brake and no hick ups. Kinda strange , everybody says no problems with a brake on shooting target loads. Ohh well, will use brake for slugs and buck shots. I've finally managed to moved my RDS behind the ejection port completely and will report testing results with the CSS GK-01 using target loads as well. I noticed the front rivet rubbing on the carrier...You can visibly see signs of rubbing here: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solrus 2 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 can u post unzoomed picture, my imagination does not work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aries144 10 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Just a quick note: The rivet has to rub on the carrier at least a little, since it is the only thing making the rail on top return to the same place. Without that rivet there, you'd see the zero of any mounted optic wobble in the vertical.ETA: Spelling. Edited February 2, 2013 by Aries144 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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