Question about Saiga 12 fit & finish...

[IZ-406 0]

Hello all.

 

I have wanted a Saiga 12 for the longest time, and finally took the plunge early this month and got an IZ-406 from Legion Arms. It was on sale for $900, regurlar price $1200.

 

I was very excited, but when my firearm arrived, I discovered the wood laminate furniture was splitting.

 

I have contacted Legion USA, and they asked me to return it (it has not been fired yet). If I do, will all of them have the same fit and finish problems? Anyone else out there with a factory Saiga with wood furniture experience this?

 

I have handled Mossbergs, Remingtons, and none had such flaws out of the box.

 

$900 is a lot for split wood furniture. I was under the general understanding that Saigas were built well. Did I just happen to get a lemon?

 

Thanks,

IZ-406

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[misterT 174]

That looks more like sanding marks in the finish to me, personally I would sand it down and refinish it with a good oil stain. companys like Legion import these in a "sporterised" configuration and convert them using U.S. made parts. They most likely added this stock and it probably is typical of what they use, I could be wrong though. You also could get a much better stock from Ironwoood designs I personnely do not like the laminate stocks to begin with!

http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/IWDNEWSaiga_2.html

[IZ-406 0]

That looks more like sanding marks in the finish to me, personally I would sand it down and refinish it with a good oil stain. companys like Legion import these in a "sporterised" configuration and convert them using U.S. made parts. They most likely added this stock and it probably is typical of what they use, I could be wrong though. You also could get a much better stock from Ironwoood designs I personnely do not like the laminate stocks to begin with!

http://www.ironwoodd...NEWSaiga_2.html

 

It just upsets me that I have to fix a new gun.

 

This isn't a Chinese knock-off, it is a Saiga.

[JoeAK 337]

What are you fixing? I see nothing wrong.

 

Dragunov handguards are all split on the top and bottom, they were designed that way.

[gregomega 929]

Yep, that's how svd handguards are. They separate into two pieces.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Excellent pictures and thank you. Yep...you might consider just living with it...unless the wood is really delaminating. Who was that guy in the movie who said...."AKs...."sheet metal, some high grade steel and cheap plywood?"

 

Also...back to the pics...how did you do it? Great photos. Curious and the whole world wonders and stuff. HB of CJ (old coot)

[JoeAK 337]

Who was that guy in the movie who said...."AKs...."sheet metal, some high grade steel and cheap plywood?"

 

Nicolas Cage in "Lord of War"

 

[IZ-406 0]

What are you fixing? I see nothing wrong.

 

Dragunov handguards are all split on the top and bottom, they were designed that way.

 

I know they are split fown the middle in two pieces. What my complaint is the small hairline cracks in the surface of the grain on a new firearm. I find this inexcusable.

[JoeAK 337]

That seems to be normal for plywood, I made a "laminated stock" and had the same thing, as misterT said you'll just have to sand it yourself.

 

If you think little problems like that are unacceptable, then you probably bought the wrong gun, it's typical for these to take some work to make reliable, I know I had to work on mine.

[IZ-406 0]

That seems to be normal for plywood, I made a "laminated stock" and had the same thing, as misterT said you'll just have to sand it yourself.

 

If you think little problems like that are unacceptable, then you probably bought the wrong gun, it's typical for these to take some work to make reliable, I know I had to work on mine.

 

It just feels like buying a new car with scratches on it.

 

Also, what do you mean about reliability? Everyone has told me that the AK-47 and it's descendants are among the most reliable firearms ever produced. That is part of the appeal of the Saiga.

 

I guess Walther and S&W have spolied me for fit and finish.

Edited December 17, 2012 by IZ-406

[JoeAK 337]

The rifles are, but all the ammo for them has close to the same power, shotguns have a wide range of different loads, all with different pressures.

 

The shotguns were designed with buckshot and slugs in mind, most work well out of the box with that, but many run into problems when shooting birdshot or low recoil loads (usually not having enough power to fully eject the spent shell), you can read more about that all over this forum section.

[misterT 174]

It is a "combat shotgun" Instead of thinking of this as buying a new car with scratches think of it as buying a battle tank with beauty marks! You should see the stocks on the romanian WASRs if you think your stock looks bad. Take it out and shoot it then you will feel better

[IZ-406 0]

It is a "combat shotgun" Instead of thinking of this as buying a new car with scratches think of it as buying a battle tank with beauty marks! You should see the stocks on the romanian WASRs if you think your stock looks bad. Take it out and shoot it then you will feel better

 

Perhaps.

 

Walther and S&W spoiled me. That said, the Saiga 12 is achingly sexy and gorgeous. I'll just sand down and refinish the furniture. It's just a hassle.

 

So the Saiga 12 basically only eats buck shot and slugs then? Ten-four.

[rnemhrd 165]

The wood is'nt cracked, but the finish, this will help explain it. Not going to make you happy. Plywood is like a veneer in ways I guess http://www.ces.ncsu..../wpn/venchk.htm Thats why I like to be all touchy feely with guns before I buy, or have pics of the exact one i'm getting. I hope you enjoy it once you get past pissed.

Edited December 17, 2012 by rnemhrd

[IZ-406 0]

The wood is'nt cracked, but the finish, this will help explain it. Not going to make you happy. Plywood is like a veneer in ways I guess http://www.ces.ncsu..../wpn/venchk.htm Thats why I like to be all touchy feely with guns before I buy, or have pics of the exact one i'm getting. I hope you enjoy it once you get past pissed.

 

That is what I thought. Most gun stores locally don't stock Saigas, so I could not get the "touchy-feely" experience I normally would have, like with my Walther P-1.

 

Thank you.

[rnemhrd 165]

you can see if Legion Arms will warrante the wood I guess. May have to ship them the gun, but that does'nt mean the next one will be better if the wood was'nt right whan it was finished.

[misterT 174]

"So the Saiga 12 basically only eats buck shot and slugs then? Ten-four."

 

That is what they were designed for, but with some profiling of the hammer and polishing they will fire the cheap bulk packs of bird shot reliably. The worst one to get to work is the Winchester bulk ammo. Try some of the Federal bulk 7 1/2 from Wally world, just remember to set the gas regulator properly.

[IZ-406 0]

you can see if Legion Arms will warrante the wood I guess. May have to ship them the gun, but that does'nt mean the next one will be better if the wood was'nt right whan it was finished.

 

I really don't want to go through all of that. Especially if the next one is even worse than the one I already have!

 

Doesn't make me less angry, though. For $900, I expect a certain level of fit and finish.

[rnemhrd 165]

Iz you doe'nt have to tell me. After the new year I'm taking mine down to have the gasblock pin groves in the barrel filled and groung down so I can move the gas block back where it should be and my gas tube will not rattle. I made a shim for it but it botherd me, I want it fixxed right.

Edited December 18, 2012 by rnemhrd

[IZ-406 0]

Iz you doe'nt have to tell me. After the new year I'm taking mine down to have the gasblock pin groves in the barrel filled and groung down so I can move the gas block back where it should be and my gas tube will not rattle. I made a shim for it but it botherd me, I want it fixxed right.

 

I know cars, engines, and machines in general very well. However, I am slowly learning guns and how they function. Forgive my ignorance, but I assume the gas tube allows spent gasses to exit in a different direction once the shell is struck by a firing pin, correct?

 

I'm reading all I can on my Saiga, but I work 60+ hours a week, so by the time I get off of work, I am nearly spent.

 

I still love the gun, and won't return it, for fear of getting a worse one. However, this experience has jilted me. That said, I still love the Saiga, the way it looks, the way it feels in my hands, it's (supposed) reliability, and the fact it is Russian. Exotic, and of course, the fact it is somewhat forbidden by the State ("Scary AK-47-type weapons are bad, mmm-kay?")...Just makes me want it more.

 

Hopefully, I can fire it at the range this weekend. I hope it is trouble-free in its operation. It had better be.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Walther and S&W spoiled me. That said, the Saiga 12 is achingly sexy and gorgeous. I'll just sand down and refinish the furniture. It's just a hassle.

 

So the Saiga 12 basically only eats buck shot and slugs then? Ten-four.

 

First to address the issue about birdshot...stay away from the cheap ass bulk Winchester birdshot, and more than likely you will be fine. My S12 has never had a problem with any birdshot I've used - but I've only used Remington and Federal. Most S12's should handle birdshot just fine stock out of the box, as long as you are using the correct gas setting. Slugs and buckshot should run fine, though I had problems with Fiochi 00 Buckshot and will not recommend that.

 

And sanding and refinishing will give the weapon your own personal flair. The finish will be whatever you want it to be, and that along with any other changes you might make to the gun will personalize it and make it truly your own!

Edited December 19, 2012 by Jpanzer

[IZ-406 0]

Walther and S&W spoiled me. That said, the Saiga 12 is achingly sexy and gorgeous. I'll just sand down and refinish the furniture. It's just a hassle.

 

So the Saiga 12 basically only eats buck shot and slugs then? Ten-four.

 

First to address the issue about birdshot...stay away from the cheap ass bulk Winchester birdshot, and more than likely you will be fine. My S12 has never had a problem with any birdshot I've used - but I've only used Remington and Federal. Most S12's should handle birdshot just fine stock out of the box, as long as you are using the correct gas setting. Slugs and buckshot should run fine, though I had problems with Fiochi 00 Buckshot and will not recommend that.

 

And sanding and refinishing will give the weapon your own personal flair. The finish will be whatever you want it to be, and that along with any other changes you might make to the gun will personalize it and make it truly your own!

 

I will do just that. Thank you.