What's your AWB "Panic Guns?"

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Hilariously, my "panic gun" was a Ruger 10/22 TD (bought on Christmas Eve!), 4 BX-25s, and 2500 rounds of .22LR.

 

I also managed to snatch my second MD-ARMs S-12 drum and backordered (shipping this week! woohoo!) 2 more 10rd SGM mags and 4 more 13rd Glock 21 mags.

 

I'm trying to order an AR-10, but that's proving difficult. I waited too long on that one. Looks like the 4 Magpul mags I ordered for it are going to come through though!

 

My true panic guns were bought when Giffords got shot. I thought the end was very near then! I picked up my S12 and Yugo M70 underfolder the following week.

[Whiskey 21]

I still feel something is telling me that non of this will go through...even though I see differently.

[timy 1,185]

I still feel something is telling me that non of this will go through...even though I see differently.

 

I feel you may be right. There will be some token 'compromise' by the spineless Republicans, but I believe even the ruling Communists are too afraid of losing their own voters. They want to consolidate their power before shafting us and the Constitution.

[frz1197 128]

I was hoping to get a pps-43 and a ptr-915 pistol. But I don't feel like getting raped on them. Did get some x39 and x54r at a decent price.

[Remek 771]

hope you guys are right, and even more, I hope there is no "compromise" beyond opening up NCIS to psychological background checks.

[macbeau 902]

An RPD from DSA with about a dozen belts...

 

http://www.dsarms.com/RPD%20Products/products/205/

Edited January 3, 2013 by macbeau

[2armor 19]

I pretty much have what I want except for a nice 9MM Para pistol - either an M9 or a Sig P22x. Have two CZ-82 Makarovs though to fill that niche mostly. Never been a huge pistol guy.

If you are referring to a Berretta M9, save yourself a headache and buy the Sig or a Glock. The M9 is a piece of junk and I have seen several in the Military fail even though they are constantly inspected by Armorers. My son was in a group of Army shooters, (36 to be exact), last week doing Carbine/Pistol transitions and they broke two M9s. One had the barrel split and the other had a slide crack.

 

 

Berettas arent bad, they will take a ton of abuse, especially if you find a Brigader which as a slide mod by the ejection port. Ever wonder why the service uses them?? Nothing is perfect though. **Especially in the hand of a soldier or sailor.

 

Ive been an Armorer for a DHS component for almost twenty years now and have seen many failures on the berretta M9 (when we still used the M9 PDW just like the DOD still uses). We now use the Sig P229R in .40 and Ill touch on that shortly.

 

The M9 suffers from the same issues consistantly but only after thousands and thousands of rounds and lots of abuse. Its nearly impossible to track how many rnds a service pistol fires exactly but log records and PMS entries show most major failures are about 8-10k rnds for the M9. I've shot US army M9s at Perry one year and they were all trash just like thier M16s. I couldnt believe the condition compared to ours. You want to see if something works? Give it to the Army for a few years.. Theyll tear the hell out of it

 

Common M9 (92FS) Issues: Boken/cracked locking block lug(s), cracked / broken slide, and broken right safety decocking lever tabs were the big three. Pre/post fire checks would often catch these items before complete failure but not always.

 

The Sig.. Great gun although I dont like its ergonomics in my hand. For the last few years, the DHS has been beating on the Sig P229 and we are now at a point where many guns are showing complete failures just as bad and some worse than the Beretta.

 

Sig issues- Multi strand Recoil springs are junk, they wear out quick and come a part, Sigs says replace every 5k rnds at a minimum. I replace much more frequent- annual or 1/2" loss from OAL spec. front of slide where the recoil spring rests have completely broke off the slide on our pistols (see previous recoil spring issue..). frame is aluminum but has no grip screw estuction (?) insert like our M1911 and M9 had, thus hundred of stripped holes requiring oversize taps that usually dont last long (**), sights work loose from dovetails and are lost on range, pin in slide loosens overtime and falls out whie shooting, slide lock easily distorted often requiring complete replacement. There a few others small issues too but I'll stop here.

 

Glock- I love them but they would not survive the test of time of the soldier and sailor torture WITHOUT several improvements. Anyone knowing the improvement the SA XD line has will understand.. In short, metal on metal mag catch assy, metal sights, metal recoil guide rod, Gen 4+ frame a must, easily removable magazine base plate (cleaning), etc, etc.

 

So I say get what you want and what feels best and has specs you need. They are all human made tools subject to failure, especially in the hands of the abusive soldier/sailer. Anyone of these three guns will serve you a lifetime if you take good care of it. Service guns are VERY neglected mainly due to lack of ownership..

Edited January 3, 2013 by 2armor

[gunfun 3,931]

I still feel something is telling me that non of this will go through...even though I see differently.

 

I feel you may be right. There will be some token 'compromise' by the spineless Republicans, but I believe even the ruling Communists are too afraid of losing their own voters. They want to consolidate their power before shafting us and the Constitution.

That's my bet. I expect more "gentlemens' agreements" unlawfully obstructing imports of cheap ammo/ surplus arms. Maybe some kind of restriction on C&R approvals, i.e. not approving anything other than old bolt actions, or clumsy odd caliber weapons.

[MT Predator 2,294]

Berettas arent bad, they will take a ton of abuse, especially if you find a Brigader which as a slide mod by the ejection port. Ever wonder why the service uses them?? Nothing is perfect though. **Especially in the hand of a soldier or sailor.

The Military uses them first and foremost because they were the low bidder on the contract at the time. Second, the Military has a hang up regarding pistols being required to have an external safety so the Glock was out of the question, Sig and HK were to pricey although these latter three brands are currently used widely in SOCOM.

[mostholycerebus 415]

Crap, looks like my panic purchases won't even get here before the Illinois ban goes through. I might be selling off all those mags. Tapcos would float in a boating accident, right?

[2armor 19]

 

 

Berettas arent bad, they will take a ton of abuse, especially if you find a Brigader which as a slide mod by the ejection port. Ever wonder why the service uses them?? Nothing is perfect though. **Especially in the hand of a soldier or sailor.

The Military uses them first and foremost because they were the low bidder on the contract at the time. Second, the Military has a hang up regarding pistols being required to have an external safety so the Glock was out of the question, Sig and HK were to pricey although these latter three brands are currently used widely in SOCOM.

Correct and good points, they were the the best contract deal (lowest price) and also a MFGer who could meet such a huge MFGing quanity demand but dont forget the M9 did and does meet or exceeded ALL PDW MILSPEC requirements. I definately wouldnt come across as impling its junk because it was the "cheapest" though. SOCOM is like its own world.. They're like SWAT, they get whatever goodie they say they Need, usually of personal operator preference, often times different than std issue.

 

Since awarded contract, like many service guns, The M9 has only been improved upon. Now I'm not saying those MILSPEC requirements were perfect either. Had those requirement changed, the current version M9 or the M9 all together may have lost. (If I HAD to pick a Beretta, I would have choosen the DAO version in .40S&W)

 

On the other hand, Not all Branches of the military use the M9. The US Coast Guard (a usually a forgoten US military service) has been using the SIG SAUER P229R DAK for years and guess what.. it is a DAO pistol (goofy DAK trigger mech) and it does not have a safety nor decocking lever. So what you say is about a safety is only partially correct:

 

The striker mechanism guns (IE: XDs, Glocks, Sigmas, etc) Dont meet current MILSPEC requirements because they do not posses a "second strike" feature because that design does not employ a true hammer. I say if you get a miss fire, tap, rack, and get on with buisness but our head cheese generals and admirals from a different generation and thought process say: try to shoot, if nothing happens, ensure the safety/decocking lever is off and squeeze trigger again" then they go into the rest of "tap, rack, and shoot". For some reason, they want to be able to have at least two primer strike attempts in a PDW. I think thats silly and similar to the old thought process of the designed magazine cut-off lever on a M1903 rifle.

 

Sorry OP, not trying to jack your thread, just providing addition and accurate info to help your decision

Edited January 3, 2013 by 2armor

[Ronin38 2,117]

The striker mechanism guns (IE: XDs, Glocks, Sigmas, etc) Dont meet current MILSPEC requirements because they do not posses a "second strike" feature because that design does not employ a true hammer. I say if you get a miss fire, tap, rack, and get on with buisness but our head cheese generals and admirals from a different generation and thought process say: try to shoot, if nothing happens, ensure the safety/decocking lever is off and squeeze trigger again" then they go into the rest of "tap, rack, and shoot". For some reason, they want to be able to have at least two primer strike attempts in a PDW. I think thats silly and similar to the old thought process of the designed magazine cut-off lever on a M1903 rifle.

The Taurus 24/7 does have "second strike" capability, and an external safety. I have a Long Slide .45, love it! It's basically their "OSS" model but with a black frame. The OSS model was developed for the latest round of test a couple years ago, but then those tests were cancelled.

 

I do not know if it would pass some of the other torture tests, don't plan on hammering nails with it myself.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Ronin38

[2armor 19]

 

The striker mechanism guns (IE: XDs, Glocks, Sigmas, etc) Dont meet current MILSPEC requirements because they do not posses a "second strike" feature because that design does not employ a true hammer. I say if you get a miss fire, tap, rack, and get on with buisness but our head cheese generals and admirals from a different generation and thought process say: try to shoot, if nothing happens, ensure the safety/decocking lever is off and squeeze trigger again" then they go into the rest of "tap, rack, and shoot". For some reason, they want to be able to have at least two primer strike attempts in a PDW. I think thats silly and similar to the old thought process of the designed magazine cut-off lever on a M1903 rifle.

The Taurus 24/7 does have "second strike" capability, and an external safety. I have a Long Slide .45, love it! It's basically their "OSS" model but with a black frame. The OSS model was developed for the latest round of test a couple years ago, but then those tests were cancelled.

 

I do not know if it would pass some of the other torture tests, don't plan on hammering nails with it myself.

Nice pistol but I dont think it was around in the mid 80's to get in line. Another requirement was solid metal frame so that puts it out in itself. Another old school general/admiral thought process.. "plastic in guns suck". Edited January 3, 2013 by 2armor

[Ronin38 2,117]

It was designed for that last round of tests a couple years ago, and is still made, I did not mean it was around for the original round of tests. They've done a few since then.

[mostholycerebus 415]

Been eyeballing that Taurus for awhile now. I have an 809 and LOVE the hammer on a poly gun. Unfortunately, my slide was defective so it needed a 2 month trip to Florida for repair.

 

I think ill still end up with an XD just because the aftermarket is so good. But for a trunk or stash gun, the 24/7s are tough to beat. Compared to, in that price range, a Sigma?

 

I used to like the key lock, but recently not so much. One of the 'features' of the XD is that you can cut the grip down to accept low cap mags, for CCW. The Taurus internal lock runs down the grip, so prevents that.

Edited January 3, 2013 by mostholycerebus

[Ronin38 2,117]

Oh... it has a key lock on it?!

[gunfun 3,931]

Sadly all newer taurus guns do, IIRC.

 

I like my Taurus PT 99 AF. It has been an excellent gun. I actually prefer the differences between it and M9 (firing pin disconnect, ambi frame safety for me to never use, alu frame, forged barrel, very good adjustable sights, and factory mags hold one more than beretta. Berretta mags can be easily altered to work if you want the most recent sand proof m9 mags, or cheap surplus.)

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Not to be a total party pooper here, but you guys need to look into Brazilian trade law.

 

Even tooling that a US manufacturer wants to take into Brazil to use in their market, employing their citizens to run it, is subject to somewhere around a 60% tax. Imports to Brazil are rated in domestic content by both value AND weight and heavily taxed if either are violated. In a former life, I worked on developing vehicles for their market. They are not an US friendly country unless its OUR money going into their pockets.

 

I like a lot of Taurus' offerings, but I just can't stomach the way their country treats ours. A Judge on my dreamlist became an S&W Governor pretty easily.

 

Sorry if that's unwelcome "political discussion", I just thought I was raise awareness to it.

[timy 1,185]

Not to be a total party pooper here, but you guys need to look into Brazilian trade law.

 

Even tooling that a US manufacturer wants to take into Brazil to use in their market, employing their citizens to run it, is subject to somewhere around a 60% tax. Imports to Brazil are rated in domestic content by both value AND weight and heavily taxed if either are violated. In a former life, I worked on developing vehicles for their market. They are not an US friendly country unless its OUR money going into their pockets.

 

I like a lot of Taurus' offerings, but I just can't stomach the way their country treats ours. A Judge on my dreamlist became an S&W Governor pretty easily.

 

Sorry if that's unwelcome "political discussion", I just thought I was raise awareness to it.

 

Sounds remarkably similar to the Japanese, Korean, and European auto market.

[XD45 7,124]

A Judge on my dreamlist

That is a gun that I just can't bet past the fugly on.

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

Not to be a total party pooper here, but you guys need to look into Brazilian trade law.

 

Even tooling that a US manufacturer wants to take into Brazil to use in their market, employing their citizens to run it, is subject to somewhere around a 60% tax. Imports to Brazil are rated in domestic content by both value AND weight and heavily taxed if either are violated. In a former life, I worked on developing vehicles for their market. They are not an US friendly country unless its OUR money going into their pockets.

 

I like a lot of Taurus' offerings, but I just can't stomach the way their country treats ours. A Judge on my dreamlist became an S&W Governor pretty easily.

 

Sorry if that's unwelcome "political discussion", I just thought I was raise awareness to it.

 

Nothing to add other than that's some interesting sh*t! Both value AND weight?

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

http://www.drdtactical.com/rifles.html

 

DRD Tactical Paratus 16". Is that cool or what? No chance of me getting one but I think it is really a must have for those with a few bucks. LOL

[gunfun 3,931]

It looks pretty chunky for a gun whose primary marketing point is that it can be made small. There has got to be a folding .308 that takes common mags and is half the bulk. Maybe even just that bullpup keltec rifle.

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Sounds remarkably similar to the Japanese, Korean, and European auto market.

 

Agreed... I will defend them slightly since Americans build Asian cars in Ohio and Mexican's build American cars in Mexico. That said, one of my Fords was built in Michigan, the other is was built by Mazda...

 

 

That is a gun that I just can't bet past the fugly on.

 

 

The ability to run 45acp got me over it pretty quickly. It's not my prom date, but I do want to feel it up.

 

 

Nothing to add other than that's some interesting sh*t! Both value AND weight?

 

 

YEP! Now imagine that you are a guy that makes really heavy AND expensive stuff (automatic transmissions and diesel engines come to mind). You're fairly well screwed unless you want to open a factory in Brazil.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to get up on my soap box (too high) and hi-jack the thread. I just wanted to put that out there and let you guys decide. No doubt that other nations pull the same crap. I just never had to work with them and truly refine my animosity. When they come here the pack 1 pair of pants and 2 shirts so they can fill their luggage with iCrap and laptops tax free since.