briansguns 0 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 This is it guys! Finally there is a Saiga 12 Forend Rail Platform. We just finished our prototype, with production to follow shortly. The rail platform will most likely be made in a reinforced plastic. Price has not yet been established, but will be under $300. The Rail system will have an adjustable rear ghost ring sight. A short run production of 50 units will be made! We will be starting a " NO money down waiting list " to reserve your Railed Platform. We will contact everyone on the list, when we have a firm release date and price. The list is NOT a commitment, it just simply holds your spot in line. If you are interested in being on the list, please contact "michael@brass-cartridge.com". Please use the "subject line" for either "Saiga RIS" or "rail info". Please include your info in email. Thank you, Halo Mfg Link to post Share on other sites
h8mtv 0 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 That is beautiful, anything to fit a 7.62? Link to post Share on other sites
briansguns 0 Posted October 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 That is beautiful, anything to fit a 7.62? Not yet... We do have a 20+ round drum mag for the Saiga 12 comming soon though. Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo 26 2 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 (edited) That is beautiful, anything to fit a 7.62? Not yet... We do have a 20+ round drum mag for the Saiga 12 comming soon though. DIBS!!!!!!!! Hey man, I'd call shotgun, but hey...you know.. I'll PM you with my info. Please add me to the list. Edit, I am an idiot, and finally read your full post. I have emailed you as requested. disreguard the above..except for the DIBS!!! part. Edited October 29, 2005 by Bravo 26 Link to post Share on other sites
briansguns 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 That is beautiful, anything to fit a 7.62? Not yet... We do have a 20+ round drum mag for the Saiga 12 comming soon though. DIBS!!!!!!!! Hey man, I'd call shotgun, but hey...you know.. I'll PM you with my info. Please add me to the list. Edit, I am an idiot, and finally read your full post. I have emailed you as requested. disreguard the above..except for the DIBS!!! part. Link to post Share on other sites
briansguns 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 What? do not put a drum magazine into production. Every one in this forum will hate you when the gun is declared a DD by ATF. I hope you were just joking about the drum because i am serious dont crie when the gunn Takes a one way ticket to DD land. Don't freak out guys! The drum mag project, came from LAW ENFORCMENT interest. If we decided to EVER follow the project through. It would ONLY be availiable to LAW ENFORCEMENT sales Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo 26 2 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 What? do not put a drum magazine into production. Every one in this forum will hate you when the gun is declared a DD by ATF. I hope you were just joking about the drum because i am serious dont crie when the gunn Takes a one way ticket to DD land. Don't freak out guys! The drum mag project, came from LAW ENFORCMENT interest. If we decided to EVER follow the project through. It would ONLY be availiable to LAW ENFORCEMENT sales I know a lot of the SOCOM guys over in the sandbox would give thier left sac for a drum to go cave clearing with..last I heard there were actually afew s-12's over there.. Link to post Share on other sites
fullchoke 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Ok sorry for my misunderstanding! What a relief! By the Way, Way cool rail Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 The drum would also fit the C-More LSS shotgun that has seen some limited deployment over there. The LEO purchasing process will keep the heat off the S-12, even though the drums would still be citizen-legal in theory. Oh yeah. And DIBs. Link to post Share on other sites
DaGroaner 2 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 What? do not put a drum magazine into production. Every one in this forum will hate you when the gun is declared a DD by ATF. I hope you were just joking about the drum because i am serious dont crie when the gunn Takes a one way ticket to DD land. Don't freak out guys! The drum mag project, came from LAW ENFORCMENT interest. If we decided to EVER follow the project through. It would ONLY be availiable to LAW ENFORCEMENT sales That rail looks really cool but if you think I'm going to fork over $200+ to a company that's coming out with a 20-rnd mag that they won't sell to me you got another thing coming. Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Hey briansguns, If its plastic, will the sights and top rail be plastic too? Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 I maybe wrong, although I believe that using good aircraft alum, and offering a model with no sights would interest more of the folks with the dough to make the $300.00 investment. Not ment to just be critical. It is good to see people with the resources making the attempt to offer news goodies for the S-12. Link to post Share on other sites
briansguns 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Hey briansguns, If its plastic, will the sights and top rail be plastic too? Yes, it's just like most of the plastics used by other firearm manufactures. I believe its stronger (but I hav'nt assulted my UMP with a hammer to find out.) Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle7 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Ok where did the pic go???? And you will be selling the drum to us Military folks right?? FREE Ok the pics up. Why plastic??? FREE Ok where did the pic go???? And you will be selling the drum to us Military folks right?? FREE Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 (edited) Plastic is probably to keep costs down. Even major RIS manufacturers can't machine a full-on rail system for less than $300 or so, and they probably produce in volume far exceeding Halo's expected orders. Machining probably just isn't going be cheap enough in the long run. I will say though, plastic is ok for rails to mount non-optics on, but I'm not too comfortable with plastic sights and a plastic sight rail. I even bust a Glock sight now and again. If you guys really want my opinion (and I don't know that you do), I'd lose the whole top half of the thing. Being able to get rails and sights all in one package is cool, but when you're dealing with specialized, user-configurable systems, you want to keep each function as separate as possible. Saiga owners who want russian optics, tritium sights or stock sighting/notch-type sighting options may shy away from your design because it either is incompatible, or requires lots of work to be made compatible. If you turn out an RIS which is compatible with as many other Saiga mods as possible (including stock sighting, SWAT-style gas block or short gas systems), you'll capture more of an already small market. Furthermore, plastic rails are acceptable for foregrips (if its a strong, one piece mold) or lights...maybe even lasers. But scopes, I don't know. It's not that it wouldn't be rigid enough for shotgun accuracy. But repeated mountings/dismountings could wear on the rail, and torsional forces from the user's hand might affect the scope-to-barrel alignment. Oh yeah...and will that rail hold up to me firing my M203 off it? Just kidding, of course. Edited October 30, 2005 by ForGreatJustice Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Emailed my contact info to reserve (1) Saiga 12 rail system Link to post Share on other sites
ditchdigger 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Is it just me or do the top and bottom rails appear to be angled down from back to front in relation to the barrel? If so, zeroing optics and lasers could be a PITA. Then again I could be seeing shit, it wouldn't be the first time(certainly not the last). Otherwise that thing looks great, I"ve been looking for a compatible or easily moded 4 rail forearm recently. If the price is reasonable and it mounts straight and solid without major mods Ill definetly buy one. Also I don't see the use of plastic being an issue as long as it's vented well and can handle the heat without warping or melting. The TDI 4 rail forearm on my 7.62 maadi sees some pretty extreme temps and handles it no problem(unlike the previous plastic one). Link to post Share on other sites
shooter2 5 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) If you guys really want my opinion (and I don't know that you do), I'd lose the whole top half of the thing. Agree 100%. I've got my sights (both iron and red-dot) set up how I like, but a railed handguard would still allow me to put on a vertical foregrip and give me someplace to hang the light instead of clamping it to the barrel. Cutting the system in half should also dramatically lower the price, and given that I'd want to set up my two Saigas identically, that would be a Good Thing. PS - to the guys at HALO; don't build the drum. Even if you only offer them for LE customers, BATFE could/would use their very *existence* (as opposed to their availability to citizens) as a factor when determining the "sporting" status of the Saigas. They did it during the AWB years, ruling that Saigas had "the ability to accept detachable mags over 5 rounds" simply because the 8-round mags EXISTED (nevermind that they were postban/illegal at the time). Edited October 31, 2005 by shooter2 Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Build the rail the way it is, I think these sights will be better than most that are out there and it will allow mounting a red dot scope or other sighting device out on the front of the barrel for faster aiming. Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 They did it during the AWB years, ruling that Saigas had "the ability to accept detachable mags over 5 rounds" simply because the 8-round mags EXISTED (nevermind that they were postban/illegal at the time). the 8 round Saiga mags were never prohibited by the 94 AWB. Importers thought they were and never brought them in, but the simple fact is, 8 rounders never were "hi-cap". caspian There is no doubt the rail is badass. it also balances the gun visually by adding some meat to the front end. I think it should be a pretty good seller. the price is a bit high (IMO) for a gun that costs around $300. however, i understand manufacturing and it's not like these cost you $25 to make and you're making a huge mark-up. as for the drums. if you go through the archives, you will see all kinds of clamoring about "DD" when the dreaded "drum" word is mentioned. bottom line, is: the ATF lawyers will do what they please regardless of what you make. if a Saiga gets in the cross hairs of the politicians via school or workplace shooting, then it won't take a drum to make is go the way of a DD. make the drum and have fun with it. Caspian Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) Forget the drum....make a magwell and some mags....SWAT style baby...! I'm not sure what I'll do if I cant learn to like the plastic sights. I'd just hate to buy the thing and then hack the whole top half off to make it work with my sighting systems. If there was a way to keep the top rail for optics, but at a height that was UNDER the sight plane of the stock sights, that would be a good compromise. Forward optics mounting + stock sighting plane and cheekweld. Edited October 31, 2005 by ForGreatJustice Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Forget the drum....make a magwell and some mags....SWAT style baby...! I agree 100%. if you have a means for mass producing tough plastic parts, then a mag well would have mass appeal. additionally, you could produce propriety 8 round mags to fit the mag wells and you would have lots of customers. think about it. make a 20 round drum and sell to 200 PDs (since you said LEO only) or make a mag well and sell 500+ and 2-5 mags to each customer (1000 - 2500). Now, that's where the $$ is. Caspian Link to post Share on other sites
briansguns 0 Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 If you guys really want my opinion (and I don't know that you do), I'd lose the whole top half of the thing. Agree 100%. I've got my sights (both iron and red-dot) set up how I like, Guys, the top and bottom come in 2 parts already. Top and bottom halves. We did think that far ahead for you. I stuck the ACOG on there for LOOKS, My Kobra still fits fine. Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Well I like it the way it is! I think its a great idea and I'm glad someone is pursuing it. As for drums I'd leave well enough alone. Soon we'll have Saigas for sale again (finally!) and I'd hate to see that ruined by a production of drum mags. There's a big market for 8rd mags (that is sure to get even larger), and I'd recommend going after that. Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 All right! You're the man! The bee's knees! The Quizzatzch Hadderach. Seriously. I'm sure I can find something to do with the top half. Maybe clamp it to the 9 o'clock rail as a backup backup sighting system. If you guys really want my opinion (and I don't know that you do), I'd lose the whole top half of the thing. Agree 100%. I've got my sights (both iron and red-dot) set up how I like, Guys, the top and bottom come in 2 parts already. Top and bottom halves. We did think that far ahead for you. I stuck the ACOG on there for LOOKS, My Kobra still fits fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Jaffa Killer 0 Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 You da man!!!!!!!!!!! If i had a 12 gauge i'd certainly buy one from you.But alas i dont have one so i just gotta ask;will this fit the 410 or do you plan on making some to fit it??? Cause i'd buy one when i had the money. Link to post Share on other sites
briansguns 0 Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 You da man!!!!!!!!!!! If i had a 12 gauge i'd certainly buy one from you.But alas i dont have one so i just gotta ask;will this fit the 410 or do you plan on making some to fit it??? Cause i'd buy one when i had the money. I don't think it will fit 410, but if intrest continues we may manufacture it and 7.62 Anyone that has been put on the waiting list, info will be sent to you soon. Were waiting on final numbers before production. Thanks Again Everyone !!! Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 You da man!!!!!!!!!!! If i had a 12 gauge i'd certainly buy one from you.But alas i dont have one so i just gotta ask;will this fit the 410 or do you plan on making some to fit it??? Cause i'd buy one when i had the money. I don't think it will fit 410, but if intrest continues we may manufacture it and 7.62 Anyone that has been put on the waiting list, info will be sent to you soon. Were waiting on final numbers before production. Thanks Again Everyone !!! Thanks, we're all really excited. For what it's worth, I would buy at least 1 rail in 7.62 if you made them and I'm sure you'd sell many more in 7.62 than for Saiga 12's. Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Well I like it the way it is! I think its a great idea and I'm glad someone is pursuing it. As for drums I'd leave well enough alone. Soon we'll have Saigas for sale again (finally!) and I'd hate to see that ruined by a production of drum mags. There's a big market for 8rd mags (that is sure to get even larger), and I'd recommend going after that. Ditto. I can't believe how incredibly short-sighted and stupid people can be. What will you sell? 10-20 drums when the powers shut us all down? . . .or hundreds and hundreds of 8 rounders? I am curious as to what the quad rails weigh? Please let me know. I may be interested in a couple. Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Aluminum and plastic rails don't weigh much at all. Now steal, that's front heavy. Link to post Share on other sites
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