New Saiga 12 Owner, First Trip To Range

[Range Toy 0]

Hello,

 

I recently purchased a new converted Saiga 12. I took it to the range for the first time today and I shot 100 rounds of 2.75" Federal Truball rifled slugs (full power 1600 fps). I had two FTL's (shell fully ejected, but did not load next shell) and two FTE's (or failure to fully eject, shell was caught and holding bolt open). I used two different mags, the 8-round russian mag it came with, and a AGP Gen 2 10-rounder. All four instances occured with the AGP mag, but I don't know if this is just coincidence or not. The gas port selector was set on #2 (per russian manual for non-12/76 shells).

 

The question I have is if this is typical performance for a Saiga 12?

I know S12's can be sensative to low power shells, but I would think the federal slugs should be more than adequate to keep the gun cycling correctly. I also have a Arsenal SLR107 AK (7.62) and I have never had any feeding or ejecting issues with it, so I was hoping the S12 would perform in the same reliable manner.

 

Does the S12 usually perform better after it has had a certain number of shells put through it or after a "break-in" period?

 

I appreciate any feedback or advice you may have.

 

Thank you

Edited January 4, 2013 by Range Toy

[philip271 7]

Normally the S12 shouldn't have any problems shooting slugs. Winchester Universals, yeah, you'll get ~30% FTE...

 

It sounds like there maybe an issue with the AGP mag. Check it, see if the metal feed lips feel very lose. It can get pushed up by the shells and potentially block the bolt resulting in FTL.

 

I decided to epoxy all of mine down after getting them out of the box.

 

That's my best guess. Good luck!

[truthcult 1]

Full power slugs should be fired on setting #1.

[the mechanic 11]

Ignore the manuall on gas adjustment. If it says 1 for 3 inch and 2 for 2 3/4 it's wrong. Read the sticky in the FAQ section on gas regulator adjustment. (Actually read all the stickies. You'll gain a better understanding on how the gun works.) Setting 2 allows all of the available gas power to cycle the gun. Setting 1 reduces the gas power available to cycle the gun. Always start on setting 1 regardless of shell length. If it doesn't cylce then going to setting 2 may be neccessary. If a full power shell doesn't cycle on 1 you may have other problems.

The FTL problem in this case is most likely the carrier moving too fast and outrunning the magazine's ability to lift another shell in place. With a full power shell and a gas setting of 2 too much gas force is being used and the carrier is cycling faster than designed. It can also be caused by a weak mag spring, binding mag follower or in the case of some manufacturers (promag mostly) a mag body that is too narrow that restricts the shell from moving up. Check your mag springs, AGP have had some reports of broken springs. Since we know the gas setting was wrong, test again on gas setting 1 and see if your problem goes away.

As for the fte, It too could be the wrong gas setting. If the carrier is moving too fast, it could catch the shell on the way back. It could also be a bunch of other things too. Check your bolt pin for looseness and your extractor slot for burs. All these are guesses unless you can post pictures of the fte or can tell us if the carrier cycled all the way back when the fte happened. Once again try it on setting 1 and see if your problems go away.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to check your carrier, rear trunnion, bolt tail, and op rod for damage. Firing 100 slugs on setting 2 may have beat up your gun. Saigas are pretty tough, you may be ok. Retest on setting 1 and let us know what you found.

[Range Toy 0]

I guess that is what I get for following the russian manual. I took the gun apart and I don't see any excessive wear to rear trunnion and carrier, they look fine.

 

The bolt tail is definately shiny, but it doesn't appear to be deformed to me or at least from what I can tell anyway.

 

I did notice the top of the hammer, the part that contacts the bolt tail when the bolt support is on its way back, definately has an impression of the bolt tail on it. I don't know if this is considered excessive or not, maybe for a gun with only 100 rounds through it, it may be.

 

I have included pics of the bolt tail and hammer. The pic of hammer looks worse than actual, but best I could get with camera available.

 

Do S12's normally show clear wear from bolt tail on top of hammer?

 

Thanks

Edited January 4, 2013 by Range Toy

[kingjason 10]

Only time I ever had FTL was when I was either, leaving the shotgun loaded and the bolt closed, or treating this thing like a pistol and racking one in and then topping off the mag, and loading it. It was deforming the third or so shell in quick order. Even my slugs would deform around the nose and do it. One time, and when I realized what was going on, it actually smashed one open and dumped buckshot into the mag.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Your hammer looks beat to shit!

[philip271 7]

^^ yeah, there is something seriously wrong for your hammer to look like that.

[Range Toy 0]

The pic of the hammer does look alot worse than actual, but I agree, hammer seems to be excessively worn. I compared wear and shape on the bolt tail with my other AK and it seems compareable, just a bit more shiny, so I think the hammer got the worst of it.

 

I think I will order a new hammer and install.

 

Since my S12 came with the 2 stage trigger system already installed, any suggestions on a good place to get a replacement hammer?

 

Is there a difference in profile for a 1 stage and 2 stage hammer, are they interchangable?

[Nemo61066 10]

What/who has been chewing on that hammer? Time to sharpen the beaver teeth that has been knawing on that thing.