Only shoots every other round?

[Dshield55 0]

My saiga is only shooting every other round. I'll fire a shot, the empty shell ejects, a new shell gets loaded in the chamber, and then when I pull the trigger... nothing. It's as if when the bolt carrier slides back... it's ejecting the shell just fine but not resetting the trigger. When I pull the trigger it's just loose and I can keep rapid pulling it and nothing is gonna happen.

 

So here's the sequence of events. I shoot the first shot, the bolt flys back ejecting the shell, the bolt flies forward and loads a new cartridge, I pull the trigger, nothing happens, I then manually pull back on the charging handle, the un-shot cartridge will eject (the hamer hasn't engaged so the firing pin has not struck the primer), I let go of the charging handle which loads a new shell, and then I pull the trigger and it shoots, and then the whole thing repeats.

 

I've probably shot 600 rounds through this Saiga. It's always had FTE issues except with 3" Magnum shells. I had taken apart the gas block before and noticed there were only two holes, so I widened one with a 3/64" in drill bit. The gun started performing slightly better but still wasn't where I wanted it to be after 200 more rounds, so I was going to wide the other hole as well.

 

Before doing that, I decided I'd polish the bolt since I hadn't already done that.

 

I just got done polishing the bolt this morning and took it out and shot 50 rounds with it. The first 5 round mag i shot went flawlessly. I put a promag 10 round in there and I had 1 FTE, and then after that it started doing the every other round problem.

 

What could be causing this?

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

are you using the factory gas plug? my first guess is that it is still under-gassed.

[Dshield55 0]

are you using the factory gas plug? my first guess is that it is still under-gassed.

 

I am using the factory gas plug.

 

Do you think it could be something else besides a gas issue?

I feel like it shouldn't be a gas issue because it's ejecting the shells just fine, how much more gas would I need?

 

I'm wondering if it could be more trigger group related. I removed a little bit of material on the hammer's face as part of the polishing procedure.

The symptom is similar to if how you rack your bolt carrier back while also holding the trigger how the trigger doesn't reset right. I'm wondering how that could happen while I'm shooting it.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

a little bit. how much do think was removed? because too much could cause this problem. i'm just a shade tree smith. give this thread some time. some of the experts will be along to help.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Take your cover off and manually cycle the gun.

Could be the main spring jumping off the trigger.

[Dshield55 0]

a little bit. how much do think was removed? because too much could cause this problem. i'm just a shade tree smith. give this thread some time. some of the experts will be along to help.

 

I ground it down a bit, but not too much. When I manually pull the bolt back, there is no issue and everything resets fine. I'll probably buy a new tapco hammer if I can't figure anything else out.

 

Take your cover off and manually cycle the gun.

Could be the main spring jumping off the trigger.

 

Which main spring? The spring wrapped around the hammer or the spring wrapped around the trigger?

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Which main spring? The spring wrapped around the hammer or the spring wrapped around the trigger?

There is no spring wrapped around the trigger. The spring that is wrapped around the hammer, is the main spring. This springs legs rest on the trigger and sometimes they will jump off the trigger and cause a fail to reset.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Mullet Man

[lbsrdi 1,078]

What happens when you charge the weapon while holding the trigger? Does the disconnector grab the hammer? If it does, then when you release the trigger what happens? If this is not happening you removed too much from the hammer or carrier. Your trigger should reset each time even if you hold the trigger.

[Dshield55 0]

Now all of a sudden it's working just fine again and the disconnector is grabbing the hammer when my finger is on the trigger. I wish it was okay for me to just go outside my back door and pop some rounds off to triple check, but i live in the suburbs. I'll go test it again tomorrow. Hopefully it was just a freak thing that happened once and wont happen again.

 

I don't think it was the springs because they looked like they were in place this whole time while I was having the problem and after the problem was fixed. However, when mullet man told me about that I started wiggling the disconnector around on it's axis pin and now it's just fine.

[kingjason 10]

Mine is doing this right now. It was flawless before I converted it other then not cycling low brass. After a few hundred rounds it now has zero FTE problems but has decided to start doing just what you described. I have figured out (I think), that it is not going into full battery until the hammer whacks it. So when I am rapid firing it, I pull the trigger and nothing happens until I manually rack it again, ejecting a good round, sometimes. Of course when I look at it, it looks normal and ready to fire but the hammer is not reset. My theory is that there is so much drag it is hanging at the very last moment and the hammer is whacking it home. But of course only one whack per trigger pull so no boom. It is going to get the ole glass bolt this week. I guess a good test would be to load it up pull the trigger one at a time and keep an eye on the bolt or have someone with you watch it while you shoot it. My fire arms guy is the one that first suggested it while we were on the range. I forgot to ask him why he said it but after looking at it and feeling that drag and catch the last half to quarter inch it makes sense.

 

Mine never fails to reset the hammer when I cycle it manually with no shells in it, no matter how hard I rack it.

Edited January 7, 2013 by kingjason

[Deadeye 325]

I have herd of useing a piece of masking tape on the opening of the charging handle to see when fireing how far the charging handle is comeing back might tell you where the carier isnt coming back far enough to reset the hammer and just enough to eject.

[kingjason 10]

I have herd of useing a piece of masking tape on the opening of the charging handle to see when fireing how far the charging handle is comeing back might tell you where the carier isnt coming back far enough to reset the hammer and just enough to eject.

 

I had not thought of this but I do not believe this is the case for one reason. I was qualifying using low recoil rounds, walking slowly, and firing one round about every 5 yards, with no issues. After that I was just screwing around with it, and its the rapid fire, and Remington Express 00, it was doing it with. So my theory is the drag is not letting the slide keep up. Pauly told me that the Tapco group is bad about causing a lot of drag. It does push the hammer down a good ways more then it needs to when cycling I believe. I may video what I believe is happening in a minute. I can reproduce the hammer knocking it into full battery. LOL

Edited January 7, 2013 by kingjason

[kingjason 10]

[Deadeye 325]

seems like durring fast fireing the hammer could be folowing the carier home. and not striking the pin with enough force.

[kingjason 10]

seems like durring fast fireing the hammer could be folowing the carier home. and not striking the pin with enough force.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Nephilim7 107]

Has the hammer or disconnector been polished?

[Deadeye 325]

polish and smoothing out the rails and also hammer profile shuld help. I also use a little grease on the rails to slick them up

[kingjason 10]

Pauly will have it in two days to work his sweet magic. I have a dremel and have many hours under my belt using one but sometimes things are better left to the pros. Plus I wanted a vertical charging handle anyways.

[gunfun 3,931]

This also makes me wonder if the spring in the disconnector has a problem. Maybe stuck on grit or rust or missing?

[kingjason 10]

That appeared to be working fine when I pulled it out.

[gunfun 3,931]

That was just one way the hammer riding the carrier can occur...

[Nephilim7 107]

I figured if someone polished their own FCG, they may accidentally change the interface between hammer and disconnecter. This could cause slippage under certain circumstances and not others. Never heard if the OP polished his own...

 

Pauly should take care of it though.

[Deadeye 325]

Are you sending your triger and hammer to pauly as well he does awesome groved trigger too.

[kingjason 10]

Are you sending your triger and hammer to pauly as well he does awesome groved trigger too.

 

 

Yes.

[Remontti 2]

I had a bit similiar problem today with the OP. In my case the carrier traveled back enough to eject but the disconnector somehow jammed on the hammer. When the cycle was complete and I released trigger, the trigger didn't return to forward position. I field stripped the gun and i was able to reproduce the problem:

-pressing the hammer down while keeping trigger

-release trigger and the disconnector would jam on the hammer preventing trigger to travel forward position

 

I thought there might be some dirt, plastic or similiar jamming the gun. I wiped hammer, disconnector and trigger group parts clean with finger and got it working again. This was second time this happened to me. I've had this gun for about 9 months now.

 

What do you think? Was it just foul from shot shells jamming the gun or something different? I've factory pistol grip and factory trigger group. I once had Valmet RK-62 (very similiar with ak47) jammed up real good when a single needle from pine tree got stuck between trigger and receiver.

[gunfun 3,931]

Paint gunk on the FCG can cause that sort of thing. Polish off the paint and try again.

[sapper1371usmc 107]

Could be one of the hammer legs jumping over which will usually cause the trigger to fail to reset. Usually happens during firing though. Could also be just rough casting of the trigger group getting hung up as well. You could try polishing the under side of the disconnector and also the hammer surface where the disconnector engages.

[Remontti 2]

I took the trigger out and polished contacting surfaces. If it happens again i'm going to take a photo of the trigger group. I did have my camera with me last time but for some reason I didn't take pictures. Stupid of me.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Remontti

[incognito485 26]

If the trigger is not resetting due to the spring leg coming off, its an easy fix. Next time you pull the trigger and nothing happens, with the back of your finger push the trigger forward. This should reset the trigger and push that leg back where it is suppose to be. You can also take the dust cover off and see the problem for yourself when you shoot. With me this happened when I shot high brass rounds with a little more kick.

 

If the trigger leg is coming off like mentioned above, bend it towards the reciever and then twist the hell out of it so it seats better.

[Capt Nemo 882]

Might be the safety/selector lever catching on the back of the disconnector. The full autos use an auto sear in front of the hammer, and the disconector is held rearward by the selector. Look for any marks on the rear of the disconnector from the safety. If there are, polish them out.

 

If the hammer is riding the bolt, it is an unsafe condition, as out of battery firing may occur. The tab sticking out on the back of the carrier is to prevent a hammer strike if the disconector or auto sear release early. I have seen an AR blow itself to bits from out of battery due to headspace problems. It's owner was lucky he didn't catch a fragment!!!

 

Here's what a full auto AK FCG looks like. (image from Eurasian Communist Weapons Guide Nov 1970)

 

*note: The "disconnector" is called the "semiautomatic sear"

 

Edited March 23, 2013 by Capt Nemo