evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) you should have seen the quad they were selling for over $300 for the S12. When I first saw it, I thought it was a joke like the ninja glock. I didn't know it was a real product. I still can't see how anyone could make that and think it was a better way to hold a gun. Those guys have a shit eye for design. Horrid.... Really, with products like the gripshield, it is clear to me that their target market is the ignorant. Edited January 20, 2013 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nucjd 6 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 That price is insane for what that is. What I have loved about the AK platform (any caliber) is the shear functionality above all else. looks are secondary to the function. IMHO this design flies in the face of what the AK is about. BTW Love GF's analysis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikeNM 8 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well, at least someone is trying to build a better "mousetrap". It's a start. I bought the "Alliance" Soumi conversion for my M-11 sub gun. It was nose heavy, had a lot of good features but the bad outweighed it. Had to return the upper for major service, very quick turn around. Looks like the "aim" of the weapon is for competition?, why only an 8 round mag?.... Also way too pricey for me, looks heavy?..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Hmmm. I kind of saw it more as a theme type gun, than a competition gun. I do like the idea of a ground up type build. I am perplexed by the folded receiver though, when everything else is milled. Seems out of place. *IF* it functions properly and reliably, I am in. Despite the look of it. Doesn't seem promising based on what folks are saying though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 New Video from MAC: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well, at least someone is trying to build a better "mousetrap". It's a start. I bought the "Alliance" Soumi conversion for my M-11 sub gun. It was nose heavy, had a lot of good features but the bad outweighed it. Had to return the upper for major service, very quick turn around. Looks like the "aim" of the weapon is for competition?, why only an 8 round mag?.... Also way too pricey for me, looks heavy?..... ... If cosplaying Gears of War counts as "competition". I think the sole purpose of this particular gun is bragging rights. Mine is the best there is, because look at the features. Then you show the checklist and it looks pretty good. It does have a lot of features that are blatantly missing from the current options. Even jerks get good ideas from time to time, so I do try to give credit where due. Their aluminum comp looks like it would probably work well for instance, and every time I look at the CSS puck, I cannot help but remember that AA's one came earlier and is about the same design... They may well have done subgun work, but the whole of their business practice and prior technical claims requires me to look at anything they do through a skeptical eye. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 you should have seen the quad they were selling for over $300 for the S12. When I first saw it, I thought it was a joke like the ninja glock. I didn't know it was a real product. I still can't see how anyone could make that and think it was a better way to hold a gun. Those guys have a shit eye for design. Horrid.... Really, with products like the gripshield, it is clear to me that their target market is the ignorant. I agree with you on this one:) With all the time and money spent on this project, they should have brought in someone who is experienced with firearms, engineering and some modern/forward looking design innovations. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 ... If cosplaying Gears of War counts as "competition". ROFLMFAO and all that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Anyone heard anything on this shotgun?Kinda pricey and Alliance Armament does not have a good reputation on the saiga forum..Below is the youtube video. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Jeez! Why would anyone do a promotional video on the range (bang bang) while the wind is blowing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sicktooth 8 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I made it 5 seconds and turned it off. I don't even care to see their junk if this is the way they're promoting it! You can't hear shit!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I can't beleive they even posted that video on the internet, you can't here anything, not that they are worth listening to anyway. These no talent ass-clowns think they have inproved upon the Kalashnikov system Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 For the price, Id rather just send my Vepr-12 to Mike Rogers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barrage 33 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I feel kinda like when I'm at an import car show. I can appreciate the amount of work that went into it, but it's just not for me. For all the work they put into it, it should have far more functional features than what seem to be mostly cosmetic features. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JustinDee88 4 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not a fan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 [...] And now for the part where people will disagree. . . it should be bull pup and eject in some way that is not inconvenient for leftists. Drums are ok too, but decent stick mags that are fast to change are better. if it were my company I would make a contract with Mike D to be OEM doublestack supplier, and specify that any one can make a mag to fit it open source license. NOT trying to pick a fight, I'd like to hear your reasoning, GunFun. Why a bullpup? The ergos are (usually) wonky for mag changes if you're trying to keep your hand on the pistol grip. You might also run into the NFA length restriction, what with a ~7" receiver length. Waitaminnit... 19" bbl+7" receiver length = 26" overall length. IIRC, that's the AOW length limit, disregard. I'd be suspicious of drum ergos. Can you put an MD20 drum 3.5" from your shoulder pocket and still be in proper shooting alignment? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Go ahead. It's no fight and I am just a guy spouting unbacked opinion. I don't have the means, skill or ambition to produce what I have in mind. By all means freely challenge the armchair firearms manufacturer. I just have a trim picture in my head of where the parts go and how they fit. "usually... wonky" A straight insert doublestack would be less wonky than a rock n lock. Everything is a compromise. Slightly slower mag changes, but bigger mags and a more compact package overall. I never got the impression that people issued steyer Augs were complaining... And "wonky" is mostly a matter of what you are used to. Get used to something different. Remember, most people think your S12 feels wrong because they learned on a gun the size and shape of a broom. I want a very compact package. BP can be more compact than an SBS. "oem doublestack".... I didn't say that it had to have 20 round drums, or any. 14 & 16 round doublestacks would make me happy. And don't assume I'd use an AK receiver. There is a bunch of wasted space in there. At the minimum I would want to slim it down in each dimension. Stamped might be easier receiver. The trigger mechanism is fine enough but I would want to reduce a lot of the bulk and mass if possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I'd really like to see a head to head comparison of a company that is stepping up to make a desirable product from scratch (Firebird) Something tells me that more than 5 of the firebird guns will get built and the marketing hype won't be from a website and shot show. It will be from people running existing production models on the comp circuit, not one of ~3 proof of concept guns from 4 years of "development" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FORKLIFT352 63 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I love it!!! It's so Hollywood! Sad they couldn't use saiga mags.. I've looked for 10rd. Mags and couldn't Find any.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 In three words.... WOW...just wow. I couldn't bare to even finish watching the video I'm sorry...LOL 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm impressed with the effort in making the gun and various custom parts, and I like the tube stock and how it is elevated This video is better http://youtu.be/d1mA-Kk6FH4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Awkward,clunky, SHARP EDGES, and probably as heavy as a cast iron blunderbuss. And those are just it;s best points! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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