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How Accurate are Your Ak's?

accuracy ak saiga rifle bullet

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#31 Tool_of_Society

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

I have the Mid west industries side mount for AK's, I have a  "Kaspa " Weaver on it and it holds zero even after taking off the mount to clean the gun and re-attaching it,a bit pricey for 109.00 but the UTG's I tried kept losing zero and loosening up, and no one would buy them for 20 bucks afterwards so i gave them away and the guys that took them threw them away in frustration afterwards.loaded up the PPU 124 FMJ on a sled and at 100yrds( no targets to show, sorry) but with the decent brass ammo and the sled on a bench we were getting 1.5- 1.75 with 3 and 5 round groups. I cant complain, I dont normally shoot brass thru it due to the price,but it is what we use  to really get the scope dialed in.One cant ever complain about the accuracy of these great rifles, they will get the job done effectively,and with out any malfunctions.022.gif

Haven't shot my rifle yet, but will spend the time to properly break the barrel in correctly. It might help with accuracy afterwards. Didn't buy this rifle to cut holes at 300 yds, bought it to put lead on target @ 100yds w/o any malfunctions all day long, if need be.

 

Thanks for the lead on the side-mount, haven't decided what direction to go with optics tho, looking to upgrade the iron sights first.

The only proper way I've heard is shoot lots of bullets... What are you talking about?

Well, the topic is accuracy right....? Barrel break in is important on any rifle. Google/youtube AR-15 or any rifle barrel break-in. Is there such a thing with the standard AK with the chrome lined barrel...??? Or do you just attach a 75rd drum to your new saiga and hold it over your head and dump hardball. Shooting lots of bullets with no goal seems useless and a waste of ammo. Back to my point, barrel break in is important to any rifle, the goal of shooting a rifle is putting lead on target. If a barrel isn't properly broke in you will have a hard time reaching that goal. Maybe with an AK the point is moot, but with any other rifle you better read manual and do some research.

Lots of words but nothing said...

 

TLDR version : I don't know..



#32 Remek

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:16 AM


I have the Mid west industries side mount for AK's, I have a  "Kaspa " Weaver on it and it holds zero even after taking off the mount to clean the gun and re-attaching it,a bit pricey for 109.00 but the UTG's I tried kept losing zero and loosening up, and no one would buy them for 20 bucks afterwards so i gave them away and the guys that took them threw them away in frustration afterwards.loaded up the PPU 124 FMJ on a sled and at 100yrds( no targets to show, sorry) but with the decent brass ammo and the sled on a bench we were getting 1.5- 1.75 with 3 and 5 round groups. I cant complain, I dont normally shoot brass thru it due to the price,but it is what we use  to really get the scope dialed in.One cant ever complain about the accuracy of these great rifles, they will get the job done effectively,and with out any malfunctions.:killer:

Haven't shot my rifle yet, but will spend the time to properly break the barrel in correctly. It might help with accuracy afterwards. Didn't buy this rifle to cut holes at 300 yds, bought it to put lead on target @ 100yds w/o any malfunctions all day long, if need be.
 
Thanks for the lead on the side-mount, haven't decided what direction to go with optics tho, looking to upgrade the iron sights first.
The only proper way I've heard is shoot lots of bullets... What are you talking about?
Well, the topic is accuracy right....? Barrel break in is important on any rifle. Google/youtube AR-15 or any rifle barrel break-in. Is there such a thing with the standard AK with the chrome lined barrel...??? Or do you just attach a 75rd drum to your new saiga and hold it over your head and dump hardball. Shooting lots of bullets with no goal seems useless and a waste of ammo. Back to my point, barrel break in is important to any rifle, the goal of shooting a rifle is putting lead on target. If a barrel isn't properly broke in you will have a hard time reaching that goal. Maybe with an AK the point is moot, but with any other rifle you better read manual and do some research.

Honestly, I do a break in, but I have already admitted I am a paranoid freak. I have seen so many old guns that were used before these break in procedures that I do not honestly believe it matters. I have also met people who buy a gun, barely ever clean it, much less break it in, and it shoots great. Others I met have rifles that shoot relatively poorly and they followed a good break in procedure. I just cannot, given my experiences, believe that break ins are more than paranoid delusions. That said, i again state i do break ins, albeit, somewhat abbreviated (1 shot, clean, repeat two more times. 3 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times. 10 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times). But i have a .17 i purchased a few years back, and didnt do a break in, and it is still a nail driver at 100'yards. I also have a 9mm handgun that had 200 rounds shot before i cleaned it, and it shoots wonderfully.

That said, i doubt break ins do anything. The barrel hardening theory is ridiculous, because the metals melt at much higher temps. The rifling cuts would be something, but its chromed, so it is, necessarily smooth. There is nothing to this, as far as logic dictates.

"Buck Melanoma.  Moley Russell's wart." - John Candy, Uncle Buck.


#33 Tool_of_Society

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

 

 

I have the Mid west industries side mount for AK's, I have a  "Kaspa " Weaver on it and it holds zero even after taking off the mount to clean the gun and re-attaching it,a bit pricey for 109.00 but the UTG's I tried kept losing zero and loosening up, and no one would buy them for 20 bucks afterwards so i gave them away and the guys that took them threw them away in frustration afterwards.loaded up the PPU 124 FMJ on a sled and at 100yrds( no targets to show, sorry) but with the decent brass ammo and the sled on a bench we were getting 1.5- 1.75 with 3 and 5 round groups. I cant complain, I dont normally shoot brass thru it due to the price,but it is what we use  to really get the scope dialed in.One cant ever complain about the accuracy of these great rifles, they will get the job done effectively,and with out any malfunctions.022.gif

Haven't shot my rifle yet, but will spend the time to properly break the barrel in correctly. It might help with accuracy afterwards. Didn't buy this rifle to cut holes at 300 yds, bought it to put lead on target @ 100yds w/o any malfunctions all day long, if need be.
 
Thanks for the lead on the side-mount, haven't decided what direction to go with optics tho, looking to upgrade the iron sights first.
The only proper way I've heard is shoot lots of bullets... What are you talking about?
Well, the topic is accuracy right....? Barrel break in is important on any rifle. Google/youtube AR-15 or any rifle barrel break-in. Is there such a thing with the standard AK with the chrome lined barrel...??? Or do you just attach a 75rd drum to your new saiga and hold it over your head and dump hardball. Shooting lots of bullets with no goal seems useless and a waste of ammo. Back to my point, barrel break in is important to any rifle, the goal of shooting a rifle is putting lead on target. If a barrel isn't properly broke in you will have a hard time reaching that goal. Maybe with an AK the point is moot, but with any other rifle you better read manual and do some research.

Honestly, I do a break in, but I have already admitted I am a paranoid freak. I have seen so many old guns that were used before these break in procedures that I do not honestly believe it matters. I have also met people who buy a gun, barely ever clean it, much less break it in, and it shoots great. Others I met have rifles that shoot relatively poorly and they followed a good break in procedure. I just cannot, given my experiences, believe that break ins are more than paranoid delusions. That said, i again state i do break ins, albeit, somewhat abbreviated (1 shot, clean, repeat two more times. 3 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times. 10 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times). But i have a .17 i purchased a few years back, and didnt do a break in, and it is still a nail driver at 100'yards. I also have a 9mm handgun that had 200 rounds shot before i cleaned it, and it shoots wonderfully.

That said, i doubt break ins do anything. The barrel hardening theory is ridiculous, because the metals melt at much higher temps. The rifling cuts would be something, but its chromed, so it is, necessarily smooth. There is nothing to this, as far as logic dictates.

I can't seem to find any useful information for breaking in AKs. I was told to just shoot a bunch of rounds by most people. For my saiga my break in was basically fire a shot pop the receiver cover and check the insides then fire another shot rinse repeat. After firing 10 or so rounds at a low rate of fire I then ran a snake through the bore which really didn't remove much. So after about 20 careful shots with cooling I started shooting it without breakdown.

 

Now for something like a good high quality bolt action hunting rifle there certainly are break in procedures you should follow.

 

 

EDIT : funny thing is that while I was doing this there was an army dude in the stall next to me breaking in his new .338 lapua magnum. He asked me what I was doing and when I showed him he actually commented that he never bothers to do that with his AK modeled rifles..


Edited by Tool_of_Society, 02 February 2013 - 05:31 AM.


#34 SmilinEd

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

Ak/Saiga are not synonymous with accuracy like its counterpart the AR. But what I feel the advantages of the AK over the AR are price and dependability.. 

 

I will still do the proper break-in with this rifle. Gives me an opportunity to have friends over and have a few adult beverages.

 

Good convo.

 

fwiw

 

http://www.shooters-...m/break_in.html



#35 Spetnaz Soldier

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

Never heard of barrel break in but i do agree that pointless mag dumps are a dumb waste of ammo although fun. All the saigas ive owned i just load up and shoot.. not too fast but definatly not slow.. accuracy on the first one has been the same since day one and now has over 10000 rounds through it.



#36 dubya

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

I just shot my 8 year old virgin Saiga yesterday for the first time in it's life and put 300 rounds through it while switching back and fourth between my buddys Sig 556 and other buddys Huldra AR and it might be hard to believe but i was getting significantly better groups with my Saiga than either AR. this was all off hand shooting and i think the added weight of the Chaos quadrail helped stabilize it a bit. I have a Bushmaster ORC, S&W MP15 OR and prefer my Saiga i picked up NIB for $300 over both AR's. Simplicity rules.

#37 Spetnaz Soldier

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:08 PM

 

 

I have the Mid west industries side mount for AK's, I have a  "Kaspa " Weaver on it and it holds zero even after taking off the mount to clean the gun and re-attaching it,a bit pricey for 109.00 but the UTG's I tried kept losing zero and loosening up, and no one would buy them for 20 bucks afterwards so i gave them away and the guys that took them threw them away in frustration afterwards.loaded up the PPU 124 FMJ on a sled and at 100yrds( no targets to show, sorry) but with the decent brass ammo and the sled on a bench we were getting 1.5- 1.75 with 3 and 5 round groups. I cant complain, I dont normally shoot brass thru it due to the price,but it is what we use  to really get the scope dialed in.One cant ever complain about the accuracy of these great rifles, they will get the job done effectively,and with out any malfunctions.022.gif

Haven't shot my rifle yet, but will spend the time to properly break the barrel in correctly. It might help with accuracy afterwards. Didn't buy this rifle to cut holes at 300 yds, bought it to put lead on target @ 100yds w/o any malfunctions all day long, if need be.
 
Thanks for the lead on the side-mount, haven't decided what direction to go with optics tho, looking to upgrade the iron sights first.
The only proper way I've heard is shoot lots of bullets... What are you talking about?
Well, the topic is accuracy right....? Barrel break in is important on any rifle. Google/youtube AR-15 or any rifle barrel break-in. Is there such a thing with the standard AK with the chrome lined barrel...??? Or do you just attach a 75rd drum to your new saiga and hold it over your head and dump hardball. Shooting lots of bullets with no goal seems useless and a waste of ammo. Back to my point, barrel break in is important to any rifle, the goal of shooting a rifle is putting lead on target. If a barrel isn't properly broke in you will have a hard time reaching that goal. Maybe with an AK the point is moot, but with any other rifle you better read manual and do some research.

Honestly, I do a break in, but I have already admitted I am a paranoid freak. I have seen so many old guns that were used before these break in procedures that I do not honestly believe it matters. I have also met people who buy a gun, barely ever clean it, much less break it in, and it shoots great. Others I met have rifles that shoot relatively poorly and they followed a good break in procedure. I just cannot, given my experiences, believe that break ins are more than paranoid delusions. That said, i again state i do break ins, albeit, somewhat abbreviated (1 shot, clean, repeat two more times. 3 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times. 10 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times). But i have a .17 i purchased a few years back, and didnt do a break in, and it is still a nail driver at 100'yards. I also have a 9mm handgun that had 200 rounds shot before i cleaned it, and it shoots wonderfully.

That said, i doubt break ins do anything. The barrel hardening theory is ridiculous, because the metals melt at much higher temps. The rifling cuts would be something, but its chromed, so it is, necessarily smooth. There is nothing to this, as far as logic dictates.

I think that is a little crazy to clean after every shot. I never really did a break in except for maybe takin it easy the first shoot and lettin her warm up slowly. Other than that i clean every session down to bare metal (no carbon) except for inside the gas block since a lot of saigas are overgassed if you let the carbon build up a bit it tones down the overgassed-ness a bit. (whats overgassed-ness you say...i dont know.)



#38 Remek

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:16 AM



 


 


I have the Mid west industries side mount for AK's, I have a  "Kaspa " Weaver on it and it holds zero even after taking off the mount to clean the gun and re-attaching it,a bit pricey for 109.00 but the UTG's I tried kept losing zero and loosening up, and no one would buy them for 20 bucks afterwards so i gave them away and the guys that took them threw them away in frustration afterwards.loaded up the PPU 124 FMJ on a sled and at 100yrds( no targets to show, sorry) but with the decent brass ammo and the sled on a bench we were getting 1.5- 1.75 with 3 and 5 round groups. I cant complain, I dont normally shoot brass thru it due to the price,but it is what we use  to really get the scope dialed in.One cant ever complain about the accuracy of these great rifles, they will get the job done effectively,and with out any malfunctions.:killer:

Haven't shot my rifle yet, but will spend the time to properly break the barrel in correctly. It might help with accuracy afterwards. Didn't buy this rifle to cut holes at 300 yds, bought it to put lead on target @ 100yds w/o any malfunctions all day long, if need be.
 
Thanks for the lead on the side-mount, haven't decided what direction to go with optics tho, looking to upgrade the iron sights first.
The only proper way I've heard is shoot lots of bullets... What are you talking about?
Well, the topic is accuracy right....? Barrel break in is important on any rifle. Google/youtube AR-15 or any rifle barrel break-in. Is there such a thing with the standard AK with the chrome lined barrel...??? Or do you just attach a 75rd drum to your new saiga and hold it over your head and dump hardball. Shooting lots of bullets with no goal seems useless and a waste of ammo. Back to my point, barrel break in is important to any rifle, the goal of shooting a rifle is putting lead on target. If a barrel isn't properly broke in you will have a hard time reaching that goal. Maybe with an AK the point is moot, but with any other rifle you better read manual and do some research.

Honestly, I do a break in, but I have already admitted I am a paranoid freak. I have seen so many old guns that were used before these break in procedures that I do not honestly believe it matters. I have also met people who buy a gun, barely ever clean it, much less break it in, and it shoots great. Others I met have rifles that shoot relatively poorly and they followed a good break in procedure. I just cannot, given my experiences, believe that break ins are more than paranoid delusions. That said, i again state i do break ins, albeit, somewhat abbreviated (1 shot, clean, repeat two more times. 3 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times. 10 shots, clean, repeat 2 more times). But i have a .17 i purchased a few years back, and didnt do a break in, and it is still a nail driver at 100'yards. I also have a 9mm handgun that had 200 rounds shot before i cleaned it, and it shoots wonderfully.
That said, i doubt break ins do anything. The barrel hardening theory is ridiculous, because the metals melt at much higher temps. The rifling cuts would be something, but its chromed, so it is, necessarily smooth. There is nothing to this, as far as logic dictates.
I think that is a little crazy to clean after every shot. I never really did a break in except for maybe takin it easy the first shoot and lettin her warm up slowly. Other than that i clean every session down to bare metal (no carbon) except for inside the gas block since a lot of saigas are overgassed if you let the carbon build up a bit it tones down the overgassed-ness a bit. (whats overgassed-ness you say...i dont know.)

I hear you completely. I used to never worry, and I never had a problem. A few years ago, I first heard about break in procedures at my club from a guy who was doing just what i do. So, i read up and watched youtube videos, and saw many people had break in procedures. They were all at least as tedious as mine. I researched "why" and it seemed to come down to two issues: molecular bonding of chrome to the barrel (which i call bullshit) and roughness of rifling. I saw a video of the same gun, one broken in, and another not, but shooting after 1000 rounds for comparison. The "broken in" rifle shot better. Was it real? Who knows. Then i saw a video of rifling with a bore scope on a new bore. It looked very rough and had crap in it. The argument being that pieces of crap are in there, and they act like sandpaper on your bore if they arent taken out quickly, and it ruins precision. Was it real? Who knows.

That said, i only get a gun every now and then, and i like to keep them at peak performance, so i devised my own easy to follow break in procedure. It certainly doesnt hurt my gun to clean it, and brushing the bore will definately help if any metal is jogged loose during use. Last, none of my guns have gone wacky on me. So, I am going to keep doing it.

I should add its only the first three shots in a brand new gun that are followed by cleaning if you didnt understand my original explanation.

"Buck Melanoma.  Moley Russell's wart." - John Candy, Uncle Buck.


#39 MTRamMan

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:32 AM

All very interesting comments and feedback here. I basically bought my AK for CQC with the intention of a red dot at the most. If I want to snipe something or hunt it with intent, that's what I have my AR or larger caliber rifles for. I'll see just how's accurate my AK is after the conversion which includes a RSA trigger group. Hopefully this will help my overall accuracy.

#40 Seggah

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:38 AM

I can hit soda can size targets at 220 yds all day.  This is before the conversion, I don't know why I converted it.  It felt right without the pistol grip...

 



#41 Nev

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

I can get quite decent groups out of mine. the biggest problem i have now is a crappy scope mount. The pic below shows the day i figured out it was the mount:

 

attachicon.gifSaigaGroups.jpg

Once we get settled in, at 100 yds my son, 15, and I keep everything within the 8-9 range with open sights off a bench. But can't say much about tight grouping. Also can't imaging doing any better, at 100yds open sights dang near cover up the whole target!


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#42 Foghorn

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

My only complaint with my Saiga is that adjusting for windage (mechanically) is a pain in the but compared to your standard AR with adjustable sight.   Does anyone have a good link for an affordable rear leaf sight that you can mechanically adjust for windage?  I am no sniper, but I was a marksmanship instructor for the Marines back in my hay days.  With your typical man sized target on any given day i could put all ten rounds in the black at five hundred meters open sites.  I dont think the AK was designed to reach out that far accurately.  if I wanted that kind of reach i would probably go with a 308 or a dragunov.  This spring i will take out my saiga and get her BZO at 100 and see how she shakes out.  Like someone said above me, I didnt buy this rifle to drive nails.  I bought her to put rounds down range out to maybe two hundred with little or no mehcanical malfunctions.


Edited by breid1970, 18 February 2013 - 04:56 PM.

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#43 mostholycerebus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:37 PM

You can swap out for the RPK style rear leaf site, it has a rear windage. You can get them for under $100.

#44 Foghorn

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:18 PM

yikes.  A hundred bucks?  I guess i can always save for a bit.  Im still deciding if I need a muzzle break or not. I think the new leaf sight would be pretty sweet.  Without it, it seems that simply adjusting the front sight post is a pain in the ass.  I can probably dial in the front site post, and then take it from there until I get the new rear sight or a nice red dot.


Virtutis gloria merces

Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil--Thomas Mann 

 

 


#45 Tool_of_Society

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:31 PM

I've been debating on getting a muzzle brake myself. I like the predictable straight up recoil I get right now and I am worried that a muzzle brake will mess that up.



#46 estone

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

watch out for that UTG side mount... mine is pretty shyte. Let us know how yours works out smile.png

i know its a cheap china made mount known to have quality issues but i have one that came with my latest saiga. it holds zero for me and i take it off and on all the time



#47 Red Star

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

am relieved that your UTG mount is working for you estone :)

 

I think im going to splurge on the one from kalinka. it looks beefy...



#48 dubya

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

Yeah i agree the UTG returns to zero for me but the rail isn't perfectly level so using my Leupold Prismatic doesn't work so well but just a plan plain red dot would be fine.





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