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Are unmodified Saiga rifles an “assault weapon” pursuant to New York State's new assault weapon ban?

 

Saigas only have one “evil feature” (removable magazine) and thus does not appear to otherwise be an “assault rifle”.

 

However, the NY Safe Act FAQ website states that an assault weapon includes:

 

“Any AK‐47 variant designed to fire ammunition in any caliber manufactured by the firms listed below . . . . . . Izhevsk Factory ‐ Russia.” See http://www.governor.ny.gov/2013/gun-reforms-faq.

 

Saigas appear to be manufactured by “Izhmash” (otherwise known as (Concern “Izhmash” OJSC). See http://www.izhmash-arms.ru/en. See also New York Times article dated April 14, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/business/a-kalashnikov-factory-in-russia-survives-on-sales-to-us-gun-owners.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0.

 

However, I cannot figure out if there is a relationship between “Izhmash” and “Izhevsk Factory ‐ Russia” or if the Saiga is otherwise an “AK-47 variant”.

 

Can anyone clarify this issue?

 

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I was told by the NYSP SAFE Hotline that a stock unconverted saiga rifle "not shotgun" was not considered an AW under the new law and not required no be registered. The "Any AK47 varient" thing is for the converted saigas and AK type rifles that have a pistol grip that are on the market. He said the rifle is not banned by name as it is just a guide to follow. Also he said if I had one of the converted saigas or AK type rifle wioth a pistol grip that I could make it compliant. This is also form the website..

 

Q: If I modify my gun by removing all design characteristics that makes it an assault weapon, do I have to register it?
A: No. If you modify your gun so that it is not an assault weapon, you do not have to register it. The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means.
Also a foregrip is just that, a pistol grip in front of the receiver not a handguard.
Everything is open to interpretation but I feel confident in my findings. Also remeber there is no rush here as we have a year before registaration happens and hopefully this law will get repealed.
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I was told by the NYSP SAFE Hotline that a stock unconverted saiga rifle "not shotgun" was not considered an AW under the new law and not required no be registered. The "Any AK47 varient" thing is for the converted saigas and AK type rifles that have a pistol grip that are on the market. He said the rifle is not banned by name as it is just a guide to follow. Also he said if I had one of the converted saigas or AK type rifle wioth a pistol grip that I could make it compliant. This is also form the website..

 

Q: If I modify my gun by removing all design characteristics that makes it an assault weapon, do I have to register it?
A: No. If you modify your gun so that it is not an assault weapon, you do not have to register it. The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means.
Also a foregrip is just that, a pistol grip in front of the receiver not a handguard.
Everything is open to interpretation but I feel confident in my findings. Also remeber there is no rush here as we have a year before registaration happens and hopefully this law will get repealed.

Hopefuly you folks impeach those communist bastards in your government and run them out on a rail. It is just unbeleivable to me what they have been allowed to get away with. All of the little penny anty bulshit they have been pulling over the past several years (and getting away with) has emboldend them every time, and the good citizens let them do it. It just proved to them and the rest of those like them, that they can do whatever they want and the good citizens of this country will let them.

 

typo

Edited by AA re-cvrd
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tok, I was told the opposite.....

 

“Any AK‐47 variant designed to fire ammunition in any caliber manufactured by the firms listed below . . . . . . Izhevsk Factory ‐ Russia.”

 

That list is not all encompassing, it's only the beginnings to a longer list.

 

A Saiga by any other name still smells as sweet. No matter how you dress it up... or down.

 

I could give 2 shits, I refuse to conform, I will not register, I will not sell. Now or in a year.

 

I will continue to modify, create, add to the collection.

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I believe that Saiga rifles are a derivative of the AK, not a variant of the AK. Variants of the AK include modified Saigas, as well as the AKs made by numerous non-Russian countries (ex. Bulgaria, Finland, Yugoslavia, China, etc.)

 

The new law prohibits Saiga shotguns by name. However, the law is silent as to the rifles. Therefore, it appears to me that the failure to mention Saiga rifles by name was not an oversight.

 

The FAQ from the New York State Safe Act website makes it clear that absent an express prohibition by name, the definition of an “assault weapon” is based upon features alone.

 

Below are excerpts from FAQ website pertaining to the New York State Safe Act.

 

Q: If I modify my gun by removing all design characteristics that makes it an assault weapon, do I have to register it?

 

A: No. If you modify your gun so that it is not an assault weapon, you do not have to register it. The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means.

 

Dealers

 

Q: I have guns in my inventory that are now defined as assault weapons and magazines that can contain more than ten rounds. What can I do with them?

 

A: You can transfer them to another dealer or sell them out of state or to law enforcement. You can also permanently modify these guns and magazines and sell them in state.

 

For years Saiga rifles have been advertised as a sporting/hunting rifle, and many people have gone to great lengths and expense to transform them into an AK variant rifle.

 

The only “evil feature” an unmodified Saiga rifle possesses is a removable magazine. The Ruger 10/22, Mini 14, and Mini 30 all have removable magazines. However, they are not considered assault weapons.

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Hopefuly you folks impeach those communist bastards in your government and run them out on a rail. It is just unbeleivable to me what they have been allowed to get away with. All of the little penny anty bulshit they have been pulling over the past several years (and getting away with) has emboldend them every time, and the good citizens let them do it. It just proved to them and the rest of those like them, that they can do whatever they want and the good citizens of this country will let them.

 

typo

This kinda stuff happens because of the large number of liberal douches in the NYC area. Upstate NY gets shafted because the politicians want the downstate votes.

 

RalphXL

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I've been attending some events regarding this, and they classify a incomplete lower as a assault weapon. That would definitely lead me to believe that unmodified Saigas being named trumps the evil feature list. They did not have a answer for me regarding bullet buttons, nor do they have any guidance what would acceptably remove some of the other features.

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Read the law. It's simple. To be an assault weapon, the rifle must have a detatchable magazine AND ONE of the following characteristics:

 

Pistol grip

Bayonette lug

Flash surpressor

Collapsable or folding stock

 

As long as you load no more than 7 rounds in the mag, you are good to go.

 

So, the law as wriiten, means Saigas do not need to be registered. Also, SKSs, dispite having a bayonette, are still legal due to the fact that they do not have a detatchable magazine. (if left in original configuration, of course)

Edited by polarman

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Oh, btw, here.

impeachandrewcuomo.com

For some reason, I can't post a link. Copy and paste that to your browser. Almost 20,000 people have signed already.

Edited by polarman

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Read the law. It's simple. To be an assault weapon, the rifle must have a detatchable magazine AND ONE of the following characteristics:

 

Pistol grip

Bayonette lug

Flash surpressor

 

As long as you load no more than 7 rounds in the mag, you are good to go.

 

So, the law as wriiten, means Saigas do not need to be registered. Also, SKSs, dispite having a bayonette, are still legal due to the fact that they do not have a detatchable magazine. (if left in original configuration, of course)

Please note I posted the original law on this forum, I am not ignorant of it. There have been modifications to the law, including a by name section that saigas fall under.

 

It bans

Any AK‐ 47variant designed to fire ammunition in any caliber manufactured by the firms listed below:

AK Concepts

AK USA Manufacturing

American Arms

Armory USA

Arsenal

Bulgarian Arsenal

B‐West

B‐West

Century Arms

Cugir Arsenal

Dragunov Sniper Rifles

Ernst Thaelmann VEB – East Germany

Ewbank Manufactureing

Firing Line

Firing line

Global Trades

Global Trades/Armory USA

Hesse

Hesse Arms

Horn Custom rifle

Hungarian Arsenal Inc

Inter Ordnance

Izhevsk Factory ‐ Russia

Kalashnikov USA

Krebs Custom Inc.

 

And I have recieved confirmation regarding ARs that they are considered assault weapons that are supposed to be registered even if they are stripped lowers with no evil features present.

 

Yes I did ask if I had a crossbow upper mounted on it if that changed this, It does not.

 

In other words, theres no running from this. Mod it all you want, your screwed by the receivers manufacture.

 

Also, they're not done building this list.

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Yeah, I've been reading that law you posted. I have only been able to find highlights of it until now. Ughhh. I can't wait to retire so I can gtfo of NY. Unfortuntely, that's a long ways off....

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As a practical matter.......any AK with a pistol grip and other AK features will be easily "seen" from a distance......to be an "Assault Rifle" in the eyes of any NYS police officer, sheriff, etc. So you risk at least being questioned to see you are in compliance ( "registered").

 

A Saiga, whether it is seen as a "variant" or "derivitive".....is a grey area open to interpretation....and that will likely be determined in a court of law at some later time. As a "practical" matter, I would rather risk going to a range or anywhere else in public after the law truly is in-place.....with an un-registered "Saiga" that ( from a distance) has all the "proper" sporter-features. My overall take is that you have a good chance to fly under the radar this way....and maybe are only open to charges if you commit some other heinous crime, and they dig deeper and decide to hit you with "Additional charges" by having an unregistered assault rifle. You'd be in deeper trouble anyway to have this matter a great deal to you then. The point made about any AK variant has merit, under the assumption it has the same kind of AW features....whereas a "derivitive" as not being an AW has similar merit, only the inner workings look like an AK, but the gun has been "modified" as allowed by law to "sporter" configuration. If you distill the law down to basics, it really comes down to "Style" and "look" of an AW that is being banned.

 

OTOH....if you run a clean bead, as I think all of us here will do..... the chances of someone questioning this grey area while the gun looks like a "sporter".... as they find you in some open field or at a range ( in full compliance with the SAFE act FAQ web page pictures showing which ARE and which ARE NOT assault rilfles)....the questioning officer will likely not notice because he'd have to look real close to even guess it may be a problem. The argument that this configuration was sold legally as a sporter to begin with has merit too.

 

This is not legal advice....only an opinion.

Edited by IPSC45

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As a practical matter.......any AK with a pistol grip and other AK features will be easily "seen" from a distance......to be an "Assault Rifle" in the eyes of any NYS police officer, sheriff, etc. So you risk at least being questioned to see you are in compliance ( "registered").

 

A Saiga, whether it is seen as a "variant" or "derivitive".....is a grey area open to interpretation....and that will likely be determined in a court of law at some later time. As a "practical" matter, I would rather risk going to a range or anywhere else in public after the law truly is in-place.....with an un-registered "Saiga" that ( from a distance) has all the "proper" sporter-features. My overall take is that you have a good chance to fly under the radar this way....and maybe are only open to charges if you commit some other heinous crime, and they dig deeper and decide to hit you with "Additional charges" by having an unregistered assault rifle. You'd be in deeper trouble anyway to have this matter a great deal to you then. The point made about any AK variant has merit, under the assumption it has the same kind of AW features....whereas a "derivitive" as not being an AW has similar merit, only the inner workings look like an AK, but the gun has been "modified" as allowed by law to "sporter" configuration. If you distill the law down to basics, it really comes down to "Style" and "look" of an AW that is being banned.

 

OTOH....if you run a clean bead, as I think all of us here will do..... the chances of someone questioning this grey area while the gun looks like a "sporter".... as they find you in some open field or at a range ( in full compliance with the SAFE act FAQ web page pictures showing which ARE and which ARE NOT assault rilfles)....the questioning officer will likely not notice because he'd have to look real close to even guess it may be a problem. The argument that this configuration was sold legally as a sporter to begin with has merit too.

 

This is not legal advice....only an opinion.

Here we go again. Get your shit straight before you pass bad information.

 

No. We have until April 15, 2014 to register defined "Assault Weapons" and are free to use them unregistered until then. I would plan on making sure the "range" mag is not capable of holding more than 10 rounds and not put any more than seven in it at a public range, though. Even THAT doesn't take affect until April 15, 2013..... according to the Governor's website. http://www.governor.ny.gov/2013/gun-reforms-faq

 

Sorry but, opinions are worthless. You MUST know what you're facts are.

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You are correct about the 2014 date before you need to register.....that doesn't change what I said, ...it only puts a fine point on the start date when it takes affect. After that, what I say still applies.....you would either register your AW as such with the NYS Police....OR..... you would modify the gun to "sporter"....or you would have "disposed" of the gun or sold it out of state. No doubt the 10 rd mag limit ( to BUY)...starts April 15, 2013.

 

I think I got my s%&t together where it matters, without being picked apart on date details.

 

My whole point was identifying 2 issues.....1.)....the BIG issue of whether your gun has the evil festures or not and how it affects the definition of Assault weapon, and 2.) the harder question ( since it is more detailed and talks to banning rifles "made in Russia by Izhvek factory"..... I'm saying the second part is harder to check because the Saiga gun has only "Saiga" and "Izhmash" engraved on it....and nowhere is there the word "Izhvek" or "Izhvek factory"....so that would be very hard to challenge unless the "officer" has a very, very detailed knowledge of the gun in question.

 

Jeepers, can you keep it civil ???

Edited by IPSC45

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Are there actually people in NYS who are going to follow any of these new "laws"? I'm with Akastormi. Screw that. Anyone who cows to these illegal laws is a coward and a sheep, and deserves the concentration camps their children will be herded into. Insanity.

 

tok, I was told the opposite.....

 

“Any AK‐47 variant designed to fire ammunition in any caliber manufactured by the firms listed below . . . . . . Izhevsk Factory ‐ Russia.”

 

That list is not all encompassing, it's only the beginnings to a longer list.

 

A Saiga by any other name still smells as sweet. No matter how you dress it up... or down.

 

I could give 2 shits, I refuse to conform, I will not register, I will not sell. Now or in a year.

 

I will continue to modify, create, add to the collection.

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Interesting topic. Have you seen what the Dems in Missouri proposed today?

http://www.examiner.com/article/missouri-democrats-propose-law-giving-gun-owners-90-days-to-turn-weapons

 

It won't go anywhere. But still, the thinking...terrible. Way I read it, my detachable mag rifle doesn't meet any of the other conditions, and would still be legal. Right? Hopefully...?file_zpsdc362d3a.jpg

 

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I will side with the federal goverment agency " Department of Homeland Security" . Egro, I do not own any assault weapons...... I own close quarters personal defense rifles. As they have stated, there purpose and use resemble a very very very close definition to the need I have for my firearms. Less the point, none of mine are fullauto/selectfire.

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Interesting topic. Have you seen what the Dems in Missouri proposed today?

http://www.examiner.com/article/missouri-democrats-propose-law-giving-gun-owners-90-days-to-turn-weapons

 

It won't go anywhere. But still, the thinking...terrible. Way I read it, my detachable mag rifle doesn't meet any of the other conditions, and would still be legal. Right? Hopefully...?file_zpsdc362d3a.jpg

you would have to read the full bill and be able to understand it to know.

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One cannot "re-define" what an Assault Weapon is.....to suit your own personal preferences. As abhorant as it seems, you need to be in compliance ( or willful non-compliance, if you will), of what the *statute* says is an Assault weapon. You have a choice as how you want to respond (comply)....but you don't have the option to re-define how the law defines an assault weapon. Wish it were so......

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I feel bad for you guys in NY. Quite frankly, I wouldn't register but then again, I live in the free state of Texas.

 

See, with all this crap they are winning. Only "law abiding" citizens will register. I'm sure the dirt bag with the AW will register too...

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